Toughness of Our Program

[zagsfanforlife]

We did recruit Banchero though and I think he is tough. He just picked Duke.

Don’t remind me :tears:

[HenneZag]

We're missing a guy like Sabonis, Karnowski. But more than that we have built this program alot on flow and creativity, skill, not so much toughness. We were outclassed by Baylor, Duke, Alabama, Tarleton St. When we get punched in the mouth and rattled the plan falters. It scares me a bit with this team, you can see it on there faces. Timme and Chet are getting pushed around, our guards are getting pushed around. I want to see more Hickman and Sallis, it's clear we need some more options. Few needs to open things up.

Suggs went right for you, Pargo the same. I did like Norvell, he wasn't afraid to attack. There is a difference with the mentality with some of these players. Pargo, and Norvell both Chicago kids...tough tough mindset.

[zagfan1]

We're missing a guy like Sabonis, Karnowski. But more than that we have built this program alot on flow and creativity, skill, not so much toughness. We were outclassed by Baylor, Duke, Alabama, Tarleton St. When we get punched in the mouth and rattled the plan falters. It scares me a bit with this team, you can see it on there faces. Timme and Chet are getting pushed around, our guards are getting pushed around. I want to see more Hickman and Sallis, it's clear we need some more options. Few needs to open things up.

Suggs went right for you, Pargo the same. I did like Norvell, he wasn't afraid to attack. There is a difference with the mentality with some of these players. Pargo, and Norvell both Chicago kids...tough tough mindset.

I agree. However Few is stubborn and may not do what it takes to get that lineup playing regularly in the game.

[SorenTodd45]

I was going to start a similar thread, but this one will do just fine. My question is, were our expectations too high when we started the season? In our 7 wins, we must have "out-toughed" the other team, but in these two losses we got clobbered.

[spike_jr]

Someone is defensive. That’s expected when you question someone’s toughness… however it’s hard to debate the type of teams and styles of play we struggle with. TarLeton was the same way. Muck it up, be physical, out strength the zags, out hustle.. and they at 1-6 almost beat this squad .

Without knowing the perfect answer why we struggle with these types of teams, tough to know a solution . However, I coached collegiately and hs a few years, so my best guess as far as solutions:

-need a defensive minded coach that harps on in your face, on ball defense day in and day out. Head on a swivel, over communicative defense where you are 1 body, not 5 individuals. Tommy did add to this part which might be missing. The more you practice against it daily in practice, the easier it is during the games.

-overall strength of the players— I was at that baylor and Florida state game. When both teams came on the floor I knew we were in trouble. Their bigs were taller than ours, their bigs were much stronger than ours, their guards looked like college football players and we looked like pop Warner kids. This is enhanced through 1) recruiting different types of athletes, whose body composition has either the room to significantly bulk up or is already mostly there. The Suggs types. The issue is that most of the time the kids with these bodies don’t play as well as Suggs so you have to develop their skills while developing their bodies.

-this group of kids in both the Duke and Alabama games that I was at came out of the locker room in the second half like they were defeated already. Heads down, slow out of the locker room… I want to see the kids running out, fired up, ready to go. You would think if Few is laying into them like some think during half times, they would be a little more amped.

-recruit more east coast kids? Pargo, Suggs, norvell, Chet, probably a ton more I am Missing.. all had some dawg in them. Zach was a chucker who never saw a shot he didn’t like, but none of this kids lacked swag or toughness.

Overall it’s often about the kids you recruit, the way you coach, condition and motivate them, and certainly the way strength training develops their bodies to handle contact, intense ball pressure, physicality when driving through the lanes… all issues we are struggling with.

I wonder if the emphasis now is conditioning rather than strength. Be able to outrun your opponent for 40 min and hopefully run them out of gas. They bulked up Heytvelt in order to make him something that he wasn’t. If you’re only going to play 7 guys and your offense is up-tempo, you had better be in good shape. Banchero couldn’t keep up and he was much more rested than our guys.

I don’t know the answer but we have historically struggled with physical teams. The officiating style in the WCC isn’t going to help either. With 3 WCC refs, Alabama would have been playing Walk-ons for the last 10 minutes.

[zagsfanforlife]

I wonder if the emphasis now is conditioning rather than strength. Be able to outrun your opponent for 40 min and hopefully run them out of gas. They bulked up Heytvelt in order to make him something that he wasn’t. If you’re only going to play 7 guys and your offense is up-tempo, you had better be in good shape. Banchero couldn’t keep up and he was much more rested than our guys.

I don’t know the answer but we have historically struggled with physical teams. The officiating style in the WCC isn’t going to help either. With 3 WCC refs, Alabama would have been playing Walk-ons for the last 10 minutes.

Very good point on wcc refs too.

[GoZags]

We did recruit Banchero though and I think he is tough. He just picked Duke.

There are more than 5 hundred thousand reasons why Paulo Banchero chose Duke.

[scrooner]

My question is, were our expectations too high when we started the season?

My expectations for the coaching staff were too high, yes. I thought the Baylor game was the final straw, and we would finally see something of a physical defense from GU on the perimeter this year. Losing Harris is probably part of the issue, but I think most of defensive look is as designed.

[zagsfanforlife]

There are more than 5 hundred thousand reasons why Paulo Banchero chose Duke.

Haha these are the scoops I like

[jazzdelmar]

Haha these are the scoops I like

If true, totally legit under NIL, vs the Chipmunk in Tucson.

[GoZags]

If true, totally legit under NIL, vs the Chipmunk in Tucson.

Yep … even if the trigger was pulled before NIL went into effect.

[zagzilla]

Sometimes goes hand in hand. If a team can’t handle on ball pressure or an opponent that Jams cutters, picks up high on defense, etc., than the turnovers will result.

Seems too coincidental the type of team we continue to lose to.year in and year out, fews teams have trouble handling athletic opponents who get up in your face and defend hard

It is frustrating to lose any game but when was the last time we lost to a team that didn't look like this? These teams give EVERYBODY problems! In fact, these are really the only kind of teams that have been capable of hanging with OUR stuff in the past few years.

That said, if you want to be a Champion, you have to be able to overcome and prevail.

ZZ

[Jedster]

Agreed on a lot of this and my fear the past few years is running into these types of teams in the tournament. I think part of the struggles for our offense is that timing, spacing, flow, etc are such a critical piece to the offense that if any of that gets disrupted, the players have a hard time adapting. I know all offenses rely on that, but as someone pointed out our offense is a Beethoven symphony. This isn't the sole reason, for sure. Disappointed in Nembhard mostly as he's a senior and should be able to lead the young kids and handle these types of defenses better.

[TexasZag]

I was going to start a similar thread, but this one will do just fine. My question is, were our expectations too high when we started the season? In our 7 wins, we must have "out-toughed" the other team, but in these two losses we got clobbered.

Did we out-tough them, or did we blow them out emotionally with really strong offensive starts? Sometimes toughness doesn't matter, if you can deflate your opponent early on by bludgeoning them with an offensive onslaught early.

[strikenowhere]

When I think of toughness and the Zags, I inevitably go back to the 2016-17 S16 game against West Virginia. THAT was a tough team that ate nails for breakfast. Not seeing that with this team, currently.