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Thread: Are we missing Tommy?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    The Zags are beautiful to watch when the refs allow freedom of movement. This had the look of a tournament game. It's sad that the winners in March come down to who can bump and grab most effectively but that's what these games come down to. (I'm really starting to dislike seeing blond-hair ref because he seems to call a lot of these physical games).

    I agree with everything you said. The free throw shooting was atrocious, and the stats don't tell the whole story of missed front-ends of 1-and-1s.
    Basketball is a physical game. This board is often quite soft about the subject. You shouldn’t be able to cut freely without getting bumped.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagfan08 View Post
    Basketball is a physical game. This board is often quite soft about the subject. You shouldn’t be able to cut freely without getting bumped.
    It's all a matter of degree.

  3. #28
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    they were over the line with energy on defense, and as with duke and tarylton we are having difficulty with hyper quick and energetic defenses. near the end of the first half they had about twice the # of fouls we did, and it was a winning strategy. We did not punish them for their many fouls in the first half, cuz we just weren't hitting our free throws. Timme's free throws tonight were about like last year.
    Teams are going to be face guarding us all year, cuz its working. We need to figure this out. Both offense and defense look a litte bit disorganized compared to usual over the years, to my amateur eye.

  4. #29

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    tommy was the fire to mark few's ice...where is the fire gonna come from now?

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    It’s foolish to think losing such an asset causes no harm.
    Nobody disagree with that statement. But as posts shows most completely disagree with the premise of the thread/OP that Tommy is the reason for our recent problems.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spink View Post
    Nobody disagree with that statement. But as posts shows most completely disagree with the premise of the thread/OP that Tommy is the reason for our recent problems.
    How can you tease out the impact? In game, Tommy was highly verbal, often doing the actual subbing and coaching. Now we have a Duke like cast of assistant coaches, all sitting neatly in a row, keeping the fouls, silent.

  7. #32
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    I don’t think the problem is on offense. I think we are not making things difficult for our opponents on defense. On KenPom we are 247th in steal percentage and 215th in non-steal turnover percentage.That is completely baffling given the quickness and length we have at our disposal. And steals are such a huge asset to us! We thrive in transition.


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  8. #33
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    At times (and for extended periods) we have three freshman, one sophomore and one junior on the court.

    That speaks for itself.

    Lloyd was a great coach and incredible recruiter. But you can't teach experience. Even Suggs play was spotty at times showing his freshman status.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    How can you tease out the impact? In game, Tommy was highly verbal, often doing the actual subbing and coaching. Now we have a Duke like cast of assistant coaches, all sitting neatly in a row, keeping the fouls, silent.
    Agree with Jazz on this. Not using the loss of Tommy as an excuse, but indeed he was highly active with impact.
    One of the greatest stories in basketball history...Gonzaga!

  10. #35
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    The game was poorly played and poorly coached in my opinion. Drew needs to buckle down and pay attention to what is going on. His free throw shooting was bad, his movement without the ball was bad and his passing was bad. More than once I spotted him cherry picking on the offensive end of the court before attempting to rebound and Alabama ended up making second chance points. If there is any thought he could be player of the year, his miserable effort should end that discussion.

    So, with Drew playing miserably, who did Few bench? Holmgren! Holmgren wasn’t lighting the nets on fire but he was more actively involved on defense and on the boards than Drew. Bad call by Few….then again, what is with all the turnovers three games in a row….another bad coaching effort. I can’t believe Few thought Watson was a better choice than Holmgren in the closing minutes, Watson and Timme were both just one problem after another.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott257 View Post
    The game was poorly played and poorly coached in my opinion. Drew needs to buckle down and pay attention to what is going on. His free throw shooting was bad, his movement without the ball was bad and his passing was bad. More than once I spotted him cherry picking on the offensive end of the court before attempting to rebound and Alabama ended up making second chance points. If there is any thought he could be player of the year, his miserable effort should end that discussion.

    So, with Drew playing miserably, who did Few bench? Holmgren! Holmgren wasn’t lighting the nets on fire but he was more actively involved on defense and on the boards than Drew. Bad call by Few….then again, what is with all the turnovers three games in a row….another bad coaching effort. I can’t believe Few thought Watson was a better choice than Holmgren in the closing minutes, Watson and Timme were both just one problem after another.
    Unless we hear otherwise, Few benching one foul Chet at game end, and playing him only 22 minutes in all, was self defeating even if purposeful lesson teaching or punishment in his mind. Few has forgotten about key players in big games — cf Mclellan — but Chet’s too tall to miss I’d think.

  12. #37
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    Taking Chet out at the 7 minute mark for a breather made sense to me (he'd just airballed a wide open three pointer and an argument could be made he needed one). But I thought for sure he'd come back in at the Under 4 timeout and be on the floor down the stretch. If the plan was to bring him back in after the next dead ball after that timeout, and that changed once they hit those back to back threes to put us down 10, I guess I get it. But I can't remember who was on the floor in that last stretch (Nembhard, Bolton, Strawther, Timme and ???). Was it Watson, if so, that isn't an upgrade at shooting threes to try to get back in it.

    Very odd substitution pattern for Chet. I hope he gets 30 minutes against Texas Tech.

  13. #38
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    Default The "X" Factor... Is it alive and well in Arizona?

    There is a spark that seems to be missing this season.

    Tommy Lloyd seemed to possess an element of toughness that has been missing lately. I see nervousness in the eyes of a coach that once reflected the passion in another's in game situations. Where is that interaction of emotions with the assistant coaches?

    Perhaps I am but a fan looking for excuses...

    and there are so many...

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by daskim View Post
    At times (and for extended periods) we have three freshman, one sophomore and one junior on the court.

    That speaks for itself.

    Lloyd was a great coach and incredible recruiter. But you can't teach experience. Even Suggs play was spotty at times showing his freshman status.
    The talk in the preseason was how young this team was, and that they would probably lose a couple of tough matchups. It’s all part of the process this year. Our third option scorer is Strawther in my mind and he isn’t quite ready for prime time; I really like him as a person and I like his skill set but his basketball mind isn’t quite there yet, in my opinion. His contributions can regularly be on the defensive end and rebounding (I say this knowing that he can score in bunches). Hickman stepped up in a big way this game and his fearlessness yesterday was a nice thing that I hope the staff cultivates. Sallis also has the look of a guy who isn’t going to be a afraid of the moment, but just needs some refinement.

    Another tangential thought is that the loss of Dom so far this year is one of those unmeasurable “what-if” kinds of things that may have been the difference in these losses.

  15. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluze View Post
    There is a spark that seems to be missing this season.

    Tommy Lloyd seemed to possess an element of toughness that has been missing lately. I see nervousness in the eyes of a coach that once reflected the passion in another's in game situations. Where is that interaction of emotions with the assistant coaches?

    Perhaps I am but a fan looking for excuses...

    and there are so many...
    I do think there is some validity there. A lot of which I alluded to in the toughness thread. I would like to see more passion all the way around

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    How can you tease out the impact? In game, Tommy was highly verbal, often doing the actual subbing and coaching. Now we have a Duke like cast of assistant coaches, all sitting neatly in a row, keeping the fouls, silent.
    Our biggest problem is not Tommy. Tommy isn't getting a bucket for us in the half court set.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spink View Post
    Our biggest problem is not Tommy. Tommy isn't getting a bucket for us in the half court set.
    I can't remember Tommy EVER missing the front end of a 1 and 1 (let alone 5 in one game)

    FWIW I agree with many of the post mortem takes, but the fact of the matter is despite this group's steeper than expected learning curve, GU would have had a GREAT chance to win this game if they'd shot 75 percent from the line (and 75 percent of the 2nd part of the 1 and 1).

    “To be continued …”. Fr Tony Lehman, SJ
    ——-
    Some cherry picked stats

    Most NCAA TOURNAMENT wins since 2015
    Gonzaga 20, Nova 17, UNC 16, Duke 15, Kentucky 13, Michigan 13, Virginia 11, Baylor 9
    -----
    Most FINAL FOUR wins since 2017
    UNC 2, Nova 2, Virginia 2, Baylor 2, Gonzaga 2, Michigan 1, TexasTech 1, Kentucky 0, Duke 0, Kansas 0

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spink View Post
    Our biggest problem is not Tommy. Tommy isn't getting a bucket for us in the half court set.
    Leadership is lifting a person's vision to high sights, the raising of a person's performance to a higher standard, the building of a personality beyond its normal limitations. —Peter Drucker

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    How can you tease out the impact? In game, Tommy was highly verbal, often doing the actual subbing and coaching. Now we have a Duke like cast of assistant coaches, all sitting neatly in a row, keeping the fouls, silent.
    Was Tommy not on the bench during the Baylor game last year?

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by vandalzag View Post
    Was Tommy not on the bench during the Baylor game last year?
    Tony Robbins couldn’t help us in that game.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Tony Robbins couldn’t help us in that game.
    True very true....new year lots of new pieces including coaches. Thoughts of running the table this year would foolish. Plenty to work with and improve on. No need to panic when you lose to two top ten teams in December.

  22. #47
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    So yes we all miss Tommy. So if there is an issue with our current assistant coaches that is on few and he himself needs to fill the vacuum as necessary. Maybe the better question is which of the assistants needs to step it up? Who should do the barking in game? So coaching impacted our substitutions, lineups, offensive and defensive sets, and the decision to only do full court pressure for like 30 seconds of the game (which in my mind should have been a bigger focus). I grade coaching as a “D”. Player execution including making sure shooters get covered on defense, letting the opposing player dribble past you, moving the ball within the half court on offense and finding high quality shots instead of throwing the ball to the other team and dribbling off your foot and taking ill advised deep shots that you know are low percentage (Suggs can hit a long range shot but not Nembhard or Bolton or Strawther), making your free throws, and getting the right position for rebounds I grade as an “F”. Hopefully everyone steps up in improving so that the next time we play a physical and three point dominant team we are ready. We will certainly lose in March if we see that product of coaching and play then.

  23. #48
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    You could hire ten assistants and they would not be able to replace the value of T.L. However as was stated earlier Tommy was on that bench in the Baylor game and every other loss for the past 20 years. Players have to play! You can run a play to get Shackelford open for a three but he's the one that has to knock it down... and he did! Its a fine line and the Zag's are on the wrong side of it at the moment.
    I for one think both Bolton & Staw can shoot from distance... Nemby is capable from 3 but not NBA range and thats really not his game. His strengths have been neutralized by speed. We have seen speed overwhelm the offense 3 games in a row. I'm sure FEW will adjust.
    Last edited by FloridaZagFan; 12-06-2021 at 04:08 AM.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    ...and Jalen
    Don’t see the same defense to offense being created in the passing lanes we saw Suggs and Ayayi thrive in picking off. This team is creating less turnovers, and isn’t guarding out to the 3. I don’t think it is merely an issue with Tommy leaving but having so many newcomers.
    Getting vaccinated isn’t a political issue. It’s a statistical issue of which the evidence of the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines are abundantly clear. Staying unvaccinated is denying reality around you.

  25. #50
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    Will Lloyd's Wildcats be ranked higher than Few's Bulldogs tomorrow?

    ZZ

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