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Thread: Gonzaga vs Duke Post Game thoughts and analysis

  1. #1
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    Default Gonzaga vs Duke Post Game thoughts and analysis

    Duke 84
    Gonzaga 81

    This game was won by Duke at the foul line, where they shoot 15-26 and Gonzags shoots 7-11. Yes Duke shoots 26 foul shots and Gonzaga 11. Duke makes 15 and Gonzaga 7. Duke makes most of their points down the stretch at the foul line, time after time after time. Yes they did miss a few but they made a lot more than Gonzaga did. 15 fouls called on Duke and 24 called on Gonzaga. Many fans who wrote on this forum predicted that Gonzaga would have a tough time if the reffing was called the way it was tonight. The refs kept our bigs in foul trouble the whole game. Holmgren sat out more than half of the first half, and actually Gonzaga played okay without him only being down by 3 at the half.

    I hate to say it but this game was won by the refs. For Gonzaga Strawther had a great game scoring 20 and grabbing 10 rebounds and making 3-7 from behind the arch. His 3 point shooting kept us in the game, and Bolton also hit 3-7 from behnd the arch and scoredd 15 points. No other Zag made a 3. Nembhard and Holmgren were both 0-3. And as a team Gonzaga only shot 29% from behind the Arch. As a team though they shot 53% for the game. Strawthere had 20 points Timme added 17, Holmgren 16 and Bolton 15. Nembhard finished with just 6 points and missed a crucial 1-1 from the foul line with a minute and a half left in the game, which really hurt Gonzaga because we had such few Foul Shot attempts, and it was at a crucial point in the game. He also missed a short 4 foot floater.

    It was definitely NOT Gonzaga's A game. I would say it was a B+. I felt Timme struggled against a big center and in some ways he played really bad defense and bad rebounding. His poor defense could be attributed to his playing in fould trouble a lot. I also felt Nimbhard did not play his best at all. I was pleased with Watsons game tonight. Although he did pick up some stupid fouls. The surprise to me was the poor defense that Gonzaga played, especially in the first half.

    However, I am not unpleased about the game at all. Gonzaga definitely fought the whole way and it was a great game for them. The refs really hurt this game a lot. IMO Not only by the way they called fouls on Gonzaga, but even more how they would NOT call fouls on Duke. They let Duke hand check and shove the whole game.

    Oh well. This is a good loss imo.

    Go Zags!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

  2. #2
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    Hardly ever won/lost by refs and wasn’t here. We couldn’t score the last 8 minutes or so. For as bad as the 3rd foul was on Timme, his 4th foul was just a dumb play. As a team, we have to be smarter about not wasting fouls. Annoying a game like this had to have foul issues but we lost because we had a number of bad possessions in a row down the stretch and also missed a couple good looks. If Chet hits that wide open 3 from the top of the key, we probably win. In and out… margins are small.

    Fun game. We will be better for it. I was concerned about Bolton getting beat off the dribble twice in the last two minutes. Personally, I hope Hickman is playing those closing minutes come March/April.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagfan08 View Post
    Hardly ever won/lost by refs and wasn’t here. We couldn’t score the last 8 minutes or so. For as bad as the 3rd foul was on Timme, his 4th foul was just a dumb play. As a team, we have to be smarter about not wasting fouls. Annoying a game like this had to have foul issues but we lost because we had a number of bad possessions in a row down the stretch and also missed a couple good looks. If Chet hits that wide open 3 from the top of the key, we probably win. In and out… margins are small.



    Fun game. We will be better for it. I was concerned about Bolton getting beat off the dribble twice in the last two minutes. Personally, I hope Hickman is playing those closing minutes come March/April.
    Sucks Rasir got beat down the stretch but if it wasn’t for him and Julian, it wouldn’t have been a game in the second half. They kept us in it.

    Was very encouraged with Hickman. Showed he for sure can play on this level.

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    Refs did NOT win or lose this game.
    Zags were sloppy with the ball at times.
    Zags didn’t deal well with Dukes ball pressure at times.
    Timme missed some he usually makes.
    Zags didn’t look prepared for Duke rolling to basket in first half
    Chet is VERY good but not the “unicorn”. He will improve greatly come March.
    Would not be surprised if the Zags / Duke met in the Bracket and the winner takes or goes onto the crown.
    Duke played the better game. I didn’t think they could get to the rim so often or so easily.
    Duke fans didn’t think they would win. At least that was my observation from section 9. This was big to them and an indicator of how far the Zags have come.

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    I hate it when people say "so-and-so wanted it more", but in the first half, I think Duke wanted it more. They are a big and talented team, but they also seemed to play with more passion and intensity, especially on defense. To their credit, the Zags stayed with them, but I think if we had matched Duke's intensity in the first half, the outcome of the game would have been different. Banchero looked unstoppable in the first half, and if he hadn't had the cramping issue in the second, Duke probably would have won by a larger margin. The Zags had their chance in the second to open things up after taking the lead, which I think would have led to them winning the game, but for whatever reason, just couldn't do it - that was frustrating. Overall, definitely a fun game to watch, but the outcome sucked.
    My posts indicate that I don't seem to follow college basketball all that closely.

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    Good post RB. That early foul on Timme to open the second half was a killer and we never got to see a replay. We had too many stupid turnovers. Gonzaga does not have the gravitas yet to keep the refs in check.

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    This was nowhere near an A level effort for our group, but a ton of credit goes to Duke for that. Their athleticism and physicality were really disruptive.

    I feel this game could have been equivalent to the Baylor game that was cancelled last year due to COVID. We need games like this early on for our guys to know what it's like to get punched in the mouth by a team full of NBA level athletes. I suspect we will be much better equipped than we were last year for a rematch against an opponent like this. As much as I want to see us win every game, I almost feel a weight lifted off the shoulders of this group by not having to worry about undefeated, historically great seasons and all that hype.

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    Was Chet H on the floor tonight? Didn't notice him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB4 View Post
    Was Chet H on the floor tonight? Didn't notice him.
    Must not have watched very closely then.

    I wish we would have went thru Chet more after Timme went out, like that little iso fadeaway he got which looked easy, but we are always gonna defer to pick and roll and that’s a great option for us, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagfan08 View Post
    Must not have watched very closely then.

    I wish we would have went thru Chet more after Timme went out, like that little iso fadeaway he got which looked easy, but we are always gonna defer to pick and roll and that’s a great option for us, too.
    Must not have. I noticed Banchero though.

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    That was a helluva game. Zags looked like a physically weak team the first approx 15 minutes. Then somehow battled their asses off to get into the game by halftime. The first 15 minutes of the second half was legit high level ball from both teams. Zags looked not so good the last 4 minutes of the game tho. Duke made the plays in crunch time. Zags kinda struggled in crunch time. Fun game tho. entertaining from a purely spectators point of view. the coaches and players all improved exponentially tonight in varieties of ways when we were truly challenged and facing adversity at multiple times. We lost but I was actually very impressed about the fighting spirit and willingness to dig in and battle. We easily could have gotten embarrassed in that first half. Bolton kept us barely afloat, till others could settle in. Watson was nice tonight. Kid can play for sure. He was good. Strawther is legit. Hickmans up and under finish was sweet. We have a fighters spirit, that’s obvious now, we have tons of skill, we have guys who will dig in and battle. We have the ingredients.

  12. #12
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    Duke legit this year

    Much stronger physically, more prepared. Bigger

    Zags didn't have it.

    Duke shot 27 FT's to our 11. Zags turned it over 17 times to their 7 too.

    That's the game.

    Timme and Nembhard turned it over too many times as upperclassmen, esp late.

    Few never chooses D vs O, and when GU had a 4 pt lead with 4.5 to go...we pulled our defensive unit.

    Colossal mistake in that moment. We had a late lead with momentum and we put in offensive subs.

    Not a bad loss but it's Duke. I'd rather any team beat us 10 times then 1 loss to them.

    Flush it and move on...

    But Gonzaga looked weak to me. Sloppy too.

    Our young guys outplayed the vets down the stretch which was interesting

    Energetic atmosphere. Again, terrific venue. Fun place to watch a game.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therunner View Post
    Duke legit this year

    Much stronger physically, more prepared. Bigger

    Zags didn't have it.

    Duke shot 27 FT's to our 11. Zags turned it over 17 times to their 7 too.

    That's the game.

    Timme and Nembhard turned it over too many times as upperclassmen, esp late.

    Few never chooses D vs O, and when GU had a 4 pt lead with 4.5 to go...we pulled our defensive unit.

    Colossal mistake in that moment. We had a 4 pt lead with momentum and we put in offensive subs

    Not a bad loss but it's Duke. I'd rather any team beat us 10 times then 1 loss to them.

    Flush it and move on...

    But Gonzaga looked weak to me. Sloppy too.

    Our young guys outplayed the vets down the stretch which was interesting

    Energetic atmosphere. Again, terrific venue. Fun place to watch a game.

    Agree with alot of what you said

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolhandzag View Post
    Refs did NOT win or lose this game.
    Zags were sloppy with the ball at times.
    Zags didn’t deal well with Dukes ball pressure at times.
    Timme missed some he usually makes.
    Zags didn’t look prepared for Duke rolling to basket in first half
    Chet is VERY good but not the “unicorn”. He will improve greatly come March.
    Would not be surprised if the Zags / Duke met in the Bracket and the winner takes or goes onto the crown.
    Duke played the better game. I didn’t think they could get to the rim so often or so easily.
    Duke fans didn’t think they would win. At least that was my observation from section 9. This was big to them and an indicator of how far the Zags have come.
    1. Duke shoot 15-25 fould shots/ Gonzaga 7-11. Duke called for only 16 fouls during game and Gonzaga 24. That my friend is reffing. All 3 Gonzaga bigs had 4 fouls on them and each sat out significant minutes in the game.

    2. Holmgren played an outstanding 2nd half and was a huge difference for Zags in 2nd half. He ended with 16 points and 3 blocks all in the 2nd half.

    Duke didn't play much better than Gonzaga down the stretch. They made almost all their points from the foul line accept one layup off Bolton. Duke missed 3 foul shots down the stretch. BUT Gonzaga was unable to do much scoring down the stretch. THAT is true. Nmebhard missed a 4 foot bloater and the front end of a one and one, and turned the ball over on a huge mistake down the stretch. Timme missed a 3 ft floater he almost always makes. If we score those baskets we win the game.

    Go Zags!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Zags had their chances to win this but got in a droughts between the 8 and 3 minute mark. Zags just had too many turnovers. If we convert three of those turnovers we win and that isn’t with our”A” game.

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    I've said ad nauseum this season, Hunter and Hickman still deserve more mins

    Still feel that way...

    Nembhard was on the ropes late, clearly tired....and literally just handing the ball over.

    Strawther and Rasir deserve major props/kudos too

    Thought Watson played great defense in final 10 mims before we pulled him in favor of Timme

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    Unfortunately this game is why Timme is not considered much of an NBA player. I love Timme and will go to battle with him but if you’re a scout for the next level this is the film you watch, not Texas. And Duke put him in every ball screen.

    Gonzaga has a beautiful offense but it is dependent on passing. Every pass means a higher chance of turning the ball over. We do not rely on individual shot creation like other teams. Overall, nice to have a high intensity game like this and not have the season end on a loss. Felt like a national title game.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Therunner View Post

    Timme and Nembhard turned it over too many times as upperclassmen, esp late.

    Our young guys outplayed the vets down the stretch which was interesting
    My guess would be their lack of rest.

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    The AP #1 rank streak is over

    ZZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Therunner View Post
    I've said ad nauseum this season, Hunter and Hickman still deserve more mins

    Still feel that way...

    Nembhard was on the ropes late, clearly tired....and literally just handing the ball over.

    Strawther and Rasir deserve major props/kudos too

    Thought Watson played great defense in final 10 mims before we pulled him in favor of Timme
    Hunter is iffy to me at this point. But the goal has to be to get minutes from him in March and that means playing along the way.

    The offense cannot sustain only Nembhard initiating action. That can be a role for Hickman and I think getting him in a place where we can play him 20+ minutes in a big game like this should be a primary focus of the season. I think our best lineup will be Nembhard-Hickman-Strawther-Chet-Timme, although we’ll really be able to defend well in lineups with Timme off the floor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagfan08 View Post
    Hunter is iffy to me at this point. But the goal has to be to get minutes from him in March and that means playing along the way.
    What are you seeing with Sallis? Both positive and negative? 3 point shot looks terrible.

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    Just flat out didn't play well enough. 28% from behind the arc, just not good. Did a lot of good things but if Timme can't really impose his presence in the paint because they have an athletic 7footer, shooting has to be better to beat a really good team. Probably Zag's two greatest strengths Nemby & Timme were neutralized by Duke's D. Needed someone else to have a great game and just didn't happen. Just 2 many unforced errors, Chet's inbound pass, Drew's 4th foul all those things add up quickly if you don't shoot well. Make two more 3's and all is forgotten but.....
    Take what you can from this game both positive and negative, throw it into the super computer that is Few and move on!

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    Timme's creative post moves and footwork really lacking this season compared to last year

    Can't figure it out

    He's still has the touch yet seems to be running backwards into dudes instead of baiting them, pump fakes, using both hands, etc

    Like he did vs Mobley & all the footwork clinics.

    Same thing vs UCLA, just kinda sloppy and forceful instead of savvy and sneaky. Looks like a solid big with some moves but far less dynamic than he used to be. Stats aren't terrible but not seeing the goods.

    Not sure why

    And what about that face-up game he supposedly worked past 6 months on? Where is that?

    Hell, Duke's 7 footer and Freshman were showing us that stuff...not Drew so much

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    Quote Originally Posted by Therunner View Post
    Timme's creative post moves and footwork really lacking this season compared to last year

    Can't figure it out

    He's still has the touch yet seems to be running backwards into dudes instead of baiting them, pump fakes, using both hands, etc

    Like he did vs Mobley & all the footwork clinics.

    Same thing vs UCLA, just kinda sloppy and forceful instead of savvy and sneaky. Looks like a solid big with some moves but far less dynamic than he used to be. Stats aren't terrible but not seeing the goods.

    Not sure why

    And what about that face-up game he supposedly worked past 6 months on? Where is that?

    Hell, Duke's 7 footer and Freshman were showing us that stuff...not Drew so much
    I was hoping to see the face up game as well. He seems to be flustered when he makes 2-3 moves and defenders are holding ground. Credit Duke, but he needs to be patient at that point and either kick it out or hit the face up. And no more 3s from Timme I don't think he has hit any this year. Expirement over. Timme is a great player and will win us many high profile games but will get exposed a bit with athletic, physical and skilled bigs. Think Baylor.
    America's Team!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HenneZag View Post
    I was hoping to see the face up game as well. He seems to be flustered when he makes 2-3 moves and defenders are holding ground. Credit Duke, but he needs to be patient at that point and either kick it out or hit the face up. And no more 3s from Timme I don't think he has hit any this year. Expirement over. Timme is a great player and will win us many high profile games but will get exposed a bit with athletic, physical and skilled bigs. Think Baylor.
    With the new NIL, I have to imagine there is a chance he Comes back for his senior year. He is a Luke Garza type. Fantastic college player, but all the things the scouts want in a new age big man, drew falls a little short… defending an athletic post, scoring against a taller and more athletic inside defender , strength, hitting an outside jump shot, athleticism, lateral agility, ability to face up and shoot a jumper.

    Drew’s awesome, but with him now making money in college, you wonder if the pros of staying in college will outweigh being a second round pick to undrafted

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