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Thread: Plus / minus stats

  1. #1
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    Default Plus / minus stats

    Can someone please post Watsons plus minus Stat vs Gregg and Perry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaSERE View Post
    Can someone please post Watsons plus minus Stat vs Gregg and Perry?
    Why??? Gregg would be the only one that you could accurately measure and even that wouldn’t tell you much as he has only been on the floor for a short time in the same high leverage spots Anton usually plays in. Anton was pulled against Akron after a travel and a block and Ben saw time. He saw a little time in the Bellarmine game when Watson was in foul trouble. I think you’d be surprised with Watson’s +\-. He subbed in the first half and we started to pull away. Some people need to pump the brakes on the Watson hate. Dude is the best defender on the team. I know everyone loves Chet and Sallis, but Watson could push Chet for Defensive Player of the year in the WCC just on steals alone.

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    I agree that Watson would be ahead on the plus minus

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    I get why people are loyal to Watson. But, at least for me, I'm looking at the battle between him and Gregg and Perry for minutes like this. Watson appears to have hit his ceiling offensively. Gregg and Perry clearly have not. Gregg has a smoothness to his offensive game that I've never seen in Anton, never. Gregg still has a shot to play in the NBA. The NBA does NOT draft people who can't score no matter how good they are on defense.
    Think about Morrison, not exactly known for being a good defensive player, but a great offensive player. If the staff put as much faith in Gregg as they do Watson, you at least have the potential to get a player close to Ammo offensively. This is what frustrates fans like me when a poor offensive performance by Watson like the other day is NOT a rare occurrence.
    Especially when you think back to last seasons championship game and Timme had zero offensive help down low.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagamatic View Post
    I get why people are loyal to Watson. But, at least for me, I'm looking at the battle between him and Gregg and Perry for minutes like this. Watson appears to have hit his ceiling offensively. Gregg and Perry clearly have not. Gregg has a smoothness to his offensive game that I've never seen in Anton, never. Gregg still has a shot to play in the NBA. The NBA does NOT draft people who can't score no matter how good they are on defense.
    Think about Morrison, not exactly known for being a good defensive player, but a great offensive player. If the staff put as much faith in Gregg as they do Watson, you at least have the potential to get a player close to Ammo offensively. This is what frustrates fans like me when a poor offensive performance by Watson like the other day is NOT a rare occurrence.
    Especially when you think back to last seasons championship game and Timme had zero offensive help down low.
    Local hero. If he was from Missouri no one would give a darn.

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    Plus/minus stats are meaningless. They measure what the teams performance is while the player is on the floor.

    I saw a game where (I think it was Sabonis) was an assist or two away from a triple double with 20 points, and had a double digit negative plus/minus, because the rest of the team was stinking it up. A worthless stat, in my opinion.
    I'm laughing. Why aren't you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Local hero. If he was from Missouri no one would give a darn.
    Nope. Not same player. But some similar intangibles. We loved Mike Hart.

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    Through 4 games this year Anton Watson ranks overall 7th in minutes, 9th in scoring, 4th in rebounding, 3rd in assists, and 1st (T1) in steals.

    How pathetically embarrassing … (ie those so-called “fans” that want the kid run out of town …. or think he is a “joke”)
    https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...tats/_/id/2250

    “To be continued …”. Fr Tony Lehman, SJ
    ——-
    Some cherry picked stats

    Most NCAA TOURNAMENT wins since 2015
    Gonzaga 20, Nova 17, UNC 16, Duke 15, Kentucky 13, Michigan 13, Virginia 11, Baylor 9
    -----
    Most FINAL FOUR wins since 2017
    UNC 2, Nova 2, Virginia 2, Baylor 2, Gonzaga 2, Michigan 1, TexasTech 1, Kentucky 0, Duke 0, Kansas 0

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spink View Post
    Nope. Not same player. But some similar intangibles. We loved Mike Hart.
    He’s better than Mike. But MH was a throwback in a bygone era. We were digging deep for a fifth starter in those days. Before the gold rush.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
    Through 4 games this year Anton Watson ranks overall 7th in minutes, 9th in scoring, 4th in rebounding, 3rd in assists, and 1st (T1) in steals.

    How pathetically embarrassing … (ie those so-called “fans” that want the kid run out of town …. or think he is a “joke”)
    https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...tats/_/id/2250
    I'm not saying yank Watson completely. I do believe that, in specific games like say against a team like Villanova, he would be a better 6th man. But teams like UCLA and Duke will absolutely leave him unguarded to double Timme. Gregg, on the other hand, has hit enough mid to long range shots already that teams won't leave him to double as easily.
    By no means do I hate Watson, nor do I think that he is without talent. But, to rely on him for heavy minutes against teams he can't score against may not be the best plan.

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    You can’t leave Watson in big games because he plays an entirely different role. He dives weak block and gets garbage buckets off the doubles. He was one of the most efficient offensive players in the country (121.7 ppp, 71st in the country) last year by playing exactly that role. He can’t create his own shot and in games where he is working on that because we are going to win by forty, he looks crummy. In close games, where he just does his job, he is about as perfect of fit as a team can ask for. It’d be nice if he continues to rebound like this year rather than some subpar efforts in the past, but we were really good with him when teams doubled Timme big to big last year.

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    Watson played 19 minutes against Texas.....And I suspect he will play something like that against Duke and UCLA.....and I suspect the others will play about the same number of minutes as they did against Texas......

    It never ceases to amaze me that some fan who has never coached a single D1 game is so delusional that he thinks he knows more..... about how to win...... or who should play....... than a future HOF Coach.....who has won more than 600 games....

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    Watson does all kinds of positive things on the court, but the second he misses a bunny he’s a “joke” or a garbage player. It makes no sense. I don’t know what’s going on with his mental game on offense, but he has clearly been told to be more aggressive and is looking to create/drive/shoot more often. I’d bet he is just adjusting and trying to find his stride on offense. Defensively there is no question what he brings to the floor. He’s a wrecking ball. Against Bellarmine it was Watson who put the clamps on Penn for a couple of minute stretch that gave us a big lead (and Chet clearly did a great job as well).

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    Reactionary drivel. When your top 3 scorers go 21-30, you don’t worry as much about one of your bench players going 0-4. Watson should be fine, and was never touted as the next Adam Morrison. He does a lot of things well when he is in the game, and will make big time plays in big time games. His minutes against Texas were great. Also, keep in mind that these games against less competitive teams give the coaches the chance to try out different lineups and substitution patterns.
    Getting vaccinated isn’t a political issue. It’s a statistical issue of which the evidence of the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines are abundantly clear. Staying unvaccinated is denying reality around you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagamatic View Post
    I get why people are loyal to Watson. But, at least for me, I'm looking at the battle between him and Gregg and Perry for minutes like this. Watson appears to have hit his ceiling offensively. Gregg and Perry clearly have not. Gregg has a smoothness to his offensive game that I've never seen in Anton, never. Gregg still has a shot to play in the NBA. The NBA does NOT draft people who can't score no matter how good they are on defense.
    Think about Morrison, not exactly known for being a good defensive player, but a great offensive player. If the staff put as much faith in Gregg as they do Watson, you at least have the potential to get a player close to Ammo offensively. This is what frustrates fans like me when a poor offensive performance by Watson like the other day is NOT a rare occurrence.
    Especially when you think back to last seasons championship game and Timme had zero offensive help down low.
    1. Far more to the game than scoring and Anton does FAR FAR more in all other aspects of the game than Gregg does at this point and time
    2. I don’t care what the NBA is looking for…this is about team game at college level and how the various parts fit together in THEIR roles to move the needle on the team goals
    3. Gregg will get his minutes but has areas of criticality IMO that HE must improve on if he is to get run in critical games other than spot minutes
    4. I am ALMOST certain that Coaches will play who they think gives us the best chance to succeed
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    Anyone that thinks Gregg should play over Watson is just not being objective. I think Gregg will be a good player for us as he develops in the coming years, but he’s not close to Watson in most aspects of his game. Suggesting Perry as an option is just not realistic. He has a huge upside but he’s extremely raw as a player right now.


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    I think all GU fans were somewhere between a little surprised & shocked that last game Watson didn’t finish some of his shots in the paint. That is one aspect of the game. Considering his defense his benefit to this team is still great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spink View Post
    I think all GU fans were somewhere between a little surprised & shocked that last game Watson didn’t finish some of his shots in the paint. That is one aspect of the game. Considering his defense his benefit to this team is still great.
    Over Anton's career (51 games to date) he's a 58.3 percent f.g. shooter. And that includes his 33.3 percent so far this year.

    I think he'll be okay.

    “To be continued …”. Fr Tony Lehman, SJ
    ——-
    Some cherry picked stats

    Most NCAA TOURNAMENT wins since 2015
    Gonzaga 20, Nova 17, UNC 16, Duke 15, Kentucky 13, Michigan 13, Virginia 11, Baylor 9
    -----
    Most FINAL FOUR wins since 2017
    UNC 2, Nova 2, Virginia 2, Baylor 2, Gonzaga 2, Michigan 1, TexasTech 1, Kentucky 0, Duke 0, Kansas 0

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    Last year, and this, Anton was a cutter. I don't have the stats, but time after time I watched a great pass to watson cutting toward the basket in the paint.

    Sallis reminds me of Errol Knight and Matisse Thybulle, they seem to show up anywhere on the floor, gliding around without obvious effort. Like Endermen in Minecraft. Regarding getting into the NBA without offensive power Matisse is one. Low 30's for 3-ball, avg 4 pt per game, but decent steals and blocks. He went first round NBA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
    Over Anton's career (51 games to date) he's a 58.3 percent f.g. shooter. And that includes his 33.3 percent so far this year.

    I think he'll be okay.
    Thus the last game comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    Plus/minus stats are meaningless. They measure what the teams performance is while the player is on the floor.
    For the season to date, the Zags are +29 when I am not on the floor...
    Gonzaga has defeated Baylor, Illinois, Virginia, Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, UCLA, Arizona, Creighton, Oklahoma, Florida State, Texas A&M, Oregon, Iowa, West Virginia, Auburn, USC, and Washington over just the past three seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Centre Mad Man View Post
    For the season to date, the Zags are +29 when I am not on the floor...
    Thank you for your contribution!


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    Quote Originally Posted by kitzbuel View Post
    Thank you for your contribution!


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    It was the least I could do.
    Gonzaga has defeated Baylor, Illinois, Virginia, Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, UCLA, Arizona, Creighton, Oklahoma, Florida State, Texas A&M, Oregon, Iowa, West Virginia, Auburn, USC, and Washington over just the past three seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Local hero. If he was from Missouri no one would give a darn.
    You speak with such certainty. My support for Watson is mostly based on direct comments from the coaches.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Centre Mad Man View Post
    For the season to date, the Zags are +29 when I am not on the floor...
    Mad Man, well at least you are on the floor 11 minutes a game!

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