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Thread: Gonzaga vs Bellarmine post game thoughts and analyses

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB4 View Post
    It really wouldn't be difficult to have all of Gonzaga's non-nationally televised games simulcast on ESPN+ or some other national streaming platform. The problem is that Gonzaga is a lame duck when it comes to media and IMG is not the solution.
    Please explain, you seem like you may have inside info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsGoZags View Post
    gonzagasaurous flex,
    could you explain more why its good that chet doesn't leave his feet? are there some situations where you would say its OK? It seemed people were ok with Bandon Clark 6'10" I think, jumping, as well as Zach Collins, Rui, elias harris (maybe he isn't a big, 6.7?)
    I was referring to the silly fouls Holmgren picked up in previous games this season when he bit on pump fakes and left his feet leading to a foul. He is so tall and long, he can wait to leave his feet until the offensive player has committed to taking the shot. Great skill to learn early esp if Zags happen to face Villanova this postseason.
    Even though I care a lot about my basketball opinions, they are like comparing a bicycle to a championship motorcycle who is our coach. . ZagsGoZags

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    Quote Originally Posted by vandalzag View Post
    Wow calling a kid a joke because he did not play to your expectations. What a garbage post.
    +1.
    bums me out to read comments like this when you know these young kids (great kids) are working so hard to improve, gel and excel.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by GonzagasaurusFlex View Post
    I was referring to the silly fouls Holmgren picked up in previous games this season when he bit on pump fakes and left his feet leading to a foul. He is so tall and long, he can wait to leave his feet until the offensive player has committed to taking the shot. Great skill to learn early esp if Zags happen to face Villanova this postseason.
    Bite your tongue. Worst matchup in the country for GU. Great spacing, shooting, passing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Bite your tongue. Worst matchup in the country for GU. Great spacing, shooting, passing.
    And patience. The iteration that beat the Zags a few years ago looked like the game moved very slowly for them. They didn't rush anything.
    Last edited by JPtheBeasta; 11-20-2021 at 09:27 AM. Reason: typo: the/they

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    And patience. The iteration that beat the Zags a few years ago looked like the game moved very slowly for them. The didn't rush anything.
    Starts w the coach and runs through Gillespie. Classic Nova. That plus multiple wings who can defend, shoot, rebound. Can’t recall their last true big.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HenneZag View Post
    Much better showing overall. I've heard from many that Anton is much more improved on the offensive end. I don't see much improvement from last year. Still forces the issue, and struggles on what to do in traffic or near the rim. He his however stellar on defense, i just don't think we will see much improvement offensively.
    He at least looks to be more confident and is looking to score in more ways than just being on the receiving end of a pass on cuts to the rim.

    He is a bit earth-bound and isn't particularly fleet footed. He needs to use his body to score on post-ups and take open outside shots. The bounce isn't really his friend. In this game in particular, Bellarmine was content to collapse into the paint and force the Zags to shoot. There was a lot of traffic down low as a result. He picked up a ticky-tack offensive foul and this was kind of the cherry on top of a bad matchup for him, in my opinion.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by GonzagasaurusFlex View Post
    I was referring to the silly fouls Holmgren picked up in previous games this season when he bit on pump fakes and left his feet leading to a foul. He is so tall and long, he can wait to leave his feet until the offensive player has committed to taking the shot. Great skill to learn early esp if Zags happen to face Villanova this postseason.
    I agree. Doing what you says increases the odds of him gathering the shots that he's altered, in my opinion. He has been spiking the volleyball to the other team a bit.

    Texas scored multiple times after 2-3 pump fakes. If Holmgren can learn to just close whatever ground there is between him and his man on the first pump fake and just get into the offensive player's jersey (so to speak) with his hand up, they will have a hard time scoring. He's so light that body contact won't be obvious, either. He did a good job at swallowing up the Bellarmine players, but they weren't as physical or athletic as the Texas players. I think that there is a learning curve there and he will close that gap over the course of the season.

    I would love to see Chet cross-match onto Juzang when they play UCLA, fwiw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vandalzag View Post
    Wow calling a kid a joke because he did not play to your expectations. What a garbage post.
    Plus 1. Unbelievable. Even with his offensive woes, Watson is the second best defensive player on the team and absolutely disrupts things on that end of the floor. Heís going to keep getting minutes because he kills teams on defense.

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    - not that reborn needs me to stand up for him..........
    - but really people, take a look at the source...REBORN.... he loves gonzaga players, coaches and team i think more than anyone on this board. he is the classiest of acts
    - so when he used the word 'joke', knowing it came from beborn, i knew immediately he did not mean it as a sarcastic hurtful insult to anton, but rather a blunt way to describe his very poor performance last night.
    - which upteen others, myself include, expressed in one way or the other.
    - grace people, please

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Starts w the coach and runs through Gillespie. Classic Nova. That plus multiple wings who can defend, shoot, rebound. Can’t recall their last true big.
    I don't know how you define "true big" but Jeremiah Robinson Earl was their star last year and picked 32nd in last summer's NBA draft. 6'9" and 230, so bigger than Rui or Anton, for comparison.

    Anyone watching Nova dismantle a top20 Tennessee team?

    Anyone else come away from the UCLA/Nova game thinking that Nova was the better team (or at least too close to call?) Nova lead most of the way, game went to OT, and it was played before a sellout @ UCLA.

    Overlook Nova at your peril, my money says they go deeper this March than UCLA.

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    I bet if you asked Watson he would tell you he needs to correct his offensive approach and let the game come to him instead of forcing things. He lost valuable minutes due to fouling out. If you watch Holmgren a little closer on tape there are times when he is a bit anxious to leave the floor to block a shot and the player gives him the pump fake. Another guy that used to be a bit anxious was Collins. Holmgren will find that balance to avoid getting in foul trouble. With Bellarmine I don’t think Holmgren even needed to jump to block their shots. I was happy with our three point shooting (after the first five or so minutes) and enjoyed the passing by Holmgren and Timme and Nembhard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GonzaGAW View Post
    - not that reborn needs me to stand up for him..........
    - but really people, take a look at the source...REBORN.... he loves gonzaga players, coaches and team i think more than anyone on this board. he is the classiest of acts
    - so when he used the word 'joke', knowing it came from beborn, i knew immediately he did not mean it as a sarcastic hurtful insult to anton, but rather a blunt way to describe his very poor performance last night.
    - which upteen others, myself include, expressed in one way or the other.
    - grace people, please
    Reborn and the others are welcome to their opinions.....I don't think anyone should be calling any player's performance a joke.....a joke is something you laugh at...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    Reborn and the others are welcome to their opinions.....I don't think anyone should be calling any player's performance a joke.....
    I'm not going to comment on Reborn's use of the word "joke" as it relates to a 20 year old student athlete who works his tail off everyday in practice and in games and has done so every day of his adult life.

    My objection is to a certain level of elitism that permeates this board at times. We're lucky to have the teams and individuals we have at GU.

    But comments that refer to less talented teams and programs like "cupcakes," bottom-feeders," and "sisters of whatever" are way off base and uncalled for.

    These players, from what I've seen on broadcasts and games I've attended at different levels here and elsewhere, worked hard and are dedicated. They're just aren't as talented.

    Give them some respect. Understand that not everyone can be an elitist. And remember that not every talented player can always perform at a top level. There are no "bunnies" when playing basketball. Every shot requires skill and execution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StatZag View Post
    I don't know how you define "true big" but Jeremiah Robinson Earl was their star last year and picked 32nd in last summer's NBA draft. 6'9" and 230, so bigger than Rui or Anton, for comparison.

    Anyone watching Nova dismantle a top20 Tennessee team?

    Anyone else come away from the UCLA/Nova game thinking that Nova was the better team (or at least too close to call?) Nova lead most of the way, game went to OT, and it was played before a sellout @ UCLA.

    Overlook Nova at your peril, my money says they go deeper this March than UCLA.
    Thinking more aircraft carrier, immobile, 7-0 ish….yea, they’re carving up UT, early for thanksgiving

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    3 charging fouls....He was a joke tonight. Played just the way he did last year. He missed at least 3 bunnies as well. I hope Gregg beats him out.

    Go Zags!!!
    I expect better from you.

    Pathetic.

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    I think everyone would like to see Anton blossom on the offensive end. He obviously must look alot better in practice and has some success off the bounce or he would get the quick hook during the game.
    In the Texas game he stayed in his lane so to speak and didn't try to force anything. He's not a turnover machine in big games and seems to know his roll on offense when it matters. He has been really good defensively in multiple games with fast hands for a big guy. Plenty of guys on this team can score, his defense makes up for his weaknesses on offense and in big games he's far more conservative.
    I dont think you can fault the kid for trying to create a little outside his box playing against a team there're going to beat by 30 or 40.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaZagFan View Post
    I think everyone would like to see Anton blossom on the offensive end. He obviously must look alot better in practice and has some success off the bounce or he would get the quick hook during the game.
    In the Texas game he stayed in his lane so to speak and didn't try to force anything. He's not a turnover machine in big games and seems to know his roll on offense when it matters. He has been really good defensively in multiple games with fast hands for a big guy. Plenty of guys on this team can score, his defense makes up for his weaknesses on offense and in big games he's far more conservative.
    I dont think you can fault the kid for trying to create a little outside his box playing against a team there're going to beat by 30 or 40.
    Well said.
    America's Team!

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    Quote Originally Posted by daskim View Post
    I'm not going to comment on Reborn's use of the word "joke" as it relates to a 20 year old student athlete who works his tail off everyday in practice and in games and has done so every day of his adult life.

    My objection is to a certain level of elitism that permeates this board at times. We're lucky to have the teams and individuals we have at GU.

    But comments that refer to less talented teams and programs like "cupcakes," bottom-feeders," and "sisters of whatever" are way off base and uncalled for.

    These players, from what I've seen on broadcasts and games I've attended at different levels here and elsewhere, worked hard and are dedicated. They're just aren't as talented.

    Give them some respect. Understand that not everyone can be an elitist. And remember that not every talented player can always perform at a top level. There are no "bunnies" when playing basketball. Every shot requires skill and execution.
    Great post. The other day someone ridiculed UCLA for being in a close game at half w/ Long Beach, citing their 295 on Kenpom. I watched that half later, and the truth of the matter was that two Long Beach guards played out of their minds for a half. They were inspired and played like it, and someone here had the gall to imply that it must have been that UCLA was bad. Essentially, that disrespected both teams, and disrespected Dan Monson, who deserves better from Zag fans.

    Anyone who has tried to play the game should understand that anyone who makes it to the D1 level is a very good basketball player, better than at least 99% of us, and all but the most talented have to work extremely hard to get to that level.

    As to Watson, imo expectations of him were much too high (NBA talk etc), and I said so (and took some flak for it) when he had 4 pts with 3 min to go in the state semifinal game v Federal Way and was outplayed head to head by Tari Eason. But he has taken on a Pendo-like role for GU imo, and that's just fine and something the team needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maynard g krebs View Post
    Great post. The other day someone ridiculed UCLA for being in a close game at half w/ Long Beach, citing their 295 on Kenpom. I watched that half later, and the truth of the matter was that two Long Beach guards played out of their minds for a half. They were inspired and played like it, and someone here had the gall to imply that it must have been that UCLA was bad. Essentially, that disrespected both teams, and disrespected Dan Monson, who deserves better from Zag fans

    As to Watson, imo expectations of him were much too high (NBA talk etc), and I said so (and took some flak for it) when he had 4 pts with 3 min to go in the state semifinal game v Federal Way and was outplayed head to head by Tari Eason. But he has taken on a Pendo-like role for GU imo, and that's just fine and something the team needs.
    Home run, May. Love the analogy.

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    vs the Zag's most talented opponent Anton had 10pts, Holmgren had 2. What a joke. I hope Eagle beats him out.

    That's the best I can do without making it personal, which has been difficult for many year's.


    But we don't play nobody.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    He at least looks to be more confident and is looking to score in more ways than just being on the receiving end of a pass on cuts to the rim.

    He is a bit earth-bound and isn't particularly fleet footed. He needs to use his body to score on post-ups and take open outside shots. The bounce isn't really his friend. In this game in particular, Bellarmine was content to collapse into the paint and force the Zags to shoot. There was a lot of traffic down low as a result. He picked up a ticky-tack offensive foul and this was kind of the cherry on top of a bad matchup for him, in my opinion.
    This is my take as well. I actually thought one of the charge calls was a blocking foul because the defender was shifting his feet and his heels were in the restricted area. Anton seems more aggressive with his first step, but lacks a plan after that. His defense and rebounding is more than enough reason for him to keep his role as the first big off the bench. I think there's still room for growth.

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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    3 charging fouls....He was a joke tonight. Played just the way he did last year. He missed at least 3 bunnies as well. I hope Gregg beats him out.

    Go Zags!!!
    That's why you're on a message board and not coaching. Stay classy.

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    I mean reborn wasnít wrong. Watson played horribly. Does anybody disagree?? I am a huge fan of Watson and hope he does better but even still I can acknowledge it was a very bad showing for him. I donít understand why everyone is jumping down reborns throat for this comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mgadfly View Post
    I thought the team looked great.

    I think the media situation probably is complicated and not nearly as simple and easy as the experts here have indicated.

    With Watson, he will never be the guy that creates his own offense and in close games he never forces it.

    With Gregg, I am still hoping to see him actually compete on the glass with guys. He has an incredibly low rebounding percentage (like Hickman gets a greater percentage of defensive boards) and thatís kind of a critical part of being a big man. Meanwhile Kadenís rebounding percentage is Sabonis level rebounding. Since we already donít have enough shots for the Timme/Chet/Strawther/Hunterís on the team, Iím not sure how someone carved out minutes this year by floating around the perimeter proving he can shoot when we need someone to rebound and defend when Chet gets som air.

    And when Chet sat in the second half it was Watson that guarded the guy who was killing us, keeping the shutout going.

    It was fun to watch an opponent use passing and cutting when so much of hoops has become high ball screens or isolation.
    I would be extremely surprised if Gregg ever moves ahead of Watson in any consistent manner. As noted by others we have plenty of offensive firepower.

    Watson is a superb defender and has and can disrupt the offensive flow of teams. I would be surprised if the coaches donít see Watson as one of the key factors for us and I mean playing at the level he is.

    The coaches have gone out of their way to praise his offensive improvement, Iíll take them at their word versus a small sample size we have. I never understand the ease with which some posters tend to dismiss direct statements by coaches on specific aspects of a players ability based upon intense daily experience with them vs a few games weíve seen.


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