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Thread: Gonzaga vs Texas Post Game thoughts and analysis

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by sittingon50 View Post
    Not sure where you got your minutes played Z A B, but they are way off.
    https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...meId/401371253


    I don't think Chet got 5 Reb 2 blocks and committed 4 fouls in 9 minutes

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    Quote Originally Posted by gu03alum View Post
    After Baylor game last year, I was worried about Timme tonight. I had read all the hype about how big Texas was and how they will push him around like Baylor. Good lord was I wrong. Now I think maybe Baylor game was a fluke.

    Ummm Baylor is more physical then this Texas team and they shot lights out. Its hard to out Gonzaga...Gonzaga. Teams get physical with us becaise thats the only way to slow Gu down. Sometimes I wish JP Batista had a cousin with eligubility left....

    Thought Chet played a nice first half..doing what the team needed him to do. He got juked off his feet a few times for some silly fouls but, he's a smart kid and will adjust to the next level. He does change the game when on the floor and other teams will have to account for him..HE'S A COMPETITOR and you can tell he has high standards for himself.

    Bottomline :GU controlled a pretty good basketball team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagsfanforlife View Post
    What I saw last night regarding rotations at this point in time:

    -Few taking a lot longer to put Sallis and Hickman in. He just prefers keeping rotations smaller than BMic
    -Hickman is clearly ahead in the pecking order than Sallis at this point in time. I do hope that Sallis gets more run and an opportunity to look more comfortable against good teams. Clear few trusts Hickman lots.
    -Perry’s time will be limited this year in big games if our bigs stay out of bad foul trouble.
    -Gregg has a long way to go in fews mind before he plays considering he seems to be behind perry who also didn’t play.
    -Andrew is going to play tons
    -if Julian doesn’t buy into his role this year he could see his minutes decrease. Stick to hitting open threes, playing good defense and implementing the mid range game, but only when it’s there. Seems to be forcing a lot. I do think he will be a star but not sure he needs to be this year

    Again can we talk about Chets dad with the camcorder? That was one of my fav parts of the night.
    Agreed ZFFL..........If history is any guide, it looks like 4/5 of the starting lineup (and the vast majority of the minutes) has already been decided. Timme, Holmgren, Nemby, and Bolton will start, and should start. The 5th and final spot appears to still be up for grabs (Straw, Hickman, Watson) and may be a game by game decision, based on matchups, etc.

    With Watson appearing to be healthy and aggressive again, I would like to see him start at the 4 and slide Holmgren to the 3, where he would be an absolute matchup nightmare and take maximum advantage of his skill set. He will get bullied underneath all year by stronger, heavier guys, but on the perimeter he can use his quickness, ball skills, and height to dominate. Plus, with the 3 bigs, opposing teams offensive rebounds will be minimized.

    Regarding minutes, Coach has ALWAYS gone with a 7-man rotation and there is no reason to think this year will be any different. In the big games, barring foul trouble or injury, look for Nemby and Drew to play 35+ minutes, with Nemby closer to 38+. The guys outside of the top 7 will be relegated to short stints in big games, only to account for foul trouble or injury to the top 7. The guys outside the top 7 will get their experience against the weaker teams in both the pre-season and WCC play.

    Determining that final starting spot will be crucial to the overall success of the team come March & April. Right or wrong, those 6 games at the end of the season are what will define the success or lack thereof for this years version of our beloved ZAGS.

    Go ZAGS

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    Holmgren at the 3..........me likey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TacomaZAG View Post
    Agreed ZFFL..........If history is any guide, it looks like 4/5 of the starting lineup (and the vast majority of the minutes) has already been decided. Timme, Holmgren, Nemby, and Bolton will start, and should start. The 5th and final spot appears to still be up for grabs (Straw, Hickman, Watson) and may be a game by game decision, based on matchups, etc.

    With Watson appearing to be healthy and aggressive again, I would like to see him start at the 4 and slide Holmgren to the 3, where he would be an absolute matchup nightmare and take maximum advantage of his skill set. He will get bullied underneath all year by stronger, heavier guys, but on the perimeter he can use his quickness, ball skills, and height to dominate. Plus, with the 3 bigs, opposing teams offensive rebounds will be minimized.

    Regarding minutes, Coach has ALWAYS gone with a 7-man rotation and there is no reason to think this year will be any different. In the big games, barring foul trouble or injury, look for Nemby and Drew to play 35+ minutes, with Nemby closer to 38+. The guys outside of the top 7 will be relegated to short stints in big games, only to account for foul trouble or injury to the top 7. The guys outside the top 7 will get their experience against the weaker teams in both the pre-season and WCC play.

    Determining that final starting spot will be crucial to the overall success of the team come March & April. Right or wrong, those 6 games at the end of the season are what will define the success or lack thereof for this years version of our beloved ZAGS.

    Go ZAGS
    If we start our only 3 bigs, who subs in for them? I like Watson off the bench giving us a 3 man rotation at the 4 and 5 spot

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    Not to go off on a tangent but I think we need to exorcise the Baylor demons...there were a lot of dumb hot-takes then (and now) that Timme was "exposed", the Zags were "out-toughed" etc.

    The fact the boys were physically and emotionally gassed after a game for the ages against UCLA and carrying an undefeated number one ranking all season doesn't rate the same attention.

    No question that Baylor team looked like men against boys in the Natty (and had for most of the season), shot lights out and earned their due. That said, front court depth for us last season vs. this year is night and day...by the end of this season, I'd think we'd more than hold our own with that Baylor team.

    Put differently, I think the Baylor game was indeed a fluke -- a particularly bad personnel and existential matchup. I don't think it presents any lessons for this team, this year.
    Your children have been placed in the custody of...Carl's Jr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaSERE View Post
    If we start our only 3 bigs, who subs in for them? I like Watson off the bench giving us a 3 man rotation at the 4 and 5 spot
    Same thing with Hickman. Keep him off the bench as he is needed to spell Nemby to keep Andrew's minutes under control. Keep Swather in as a starter and give him time. Same with Sallis. He will learn to control his play within the confines of the offense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaSERE View Post
    If we start our only 3 bigs, who subs in for them? I like Watson off the bench giving us a 3 man rotation at the 4 and 5 spot
    I'm only talking about the big games, against the likes of UCLA, Duke, Alabama. Against those players, Holmgren simply does not have the frame to compete at either the 4 or the 5. Every big on those teams will be physically stronger than Chet and will out weigh him by 40+ lbs. Against those players he will get eaten alive in the paint and commit a bunch of fouls trying to defend those guys. So, move him to the 3 for the majority of his minutes in those games, where his skill set and versatility will give him a distinct advantage over those players. Plus, with Chet on the perimeter, it will open up the paint for Timme to work.

    In those big games, Watson, Holmgren, and Timme can play together 28-30+ minutes, barring foul trouble or injury. For the remainder of the game, two of those three can be in there with Straw and 2 guards, or one of them and we go small (3 guards + Straw).

    None of this matters at all against the likes of Alcorn St., Bellarmine, or U of P. It only matters against the better teams with the bigger, better athletes. Chet is not a "back to the basket" big, he is a stretch 4 in the NBA, which is a world away from a 4 or 5 in the NCAA. In college, his skill set is perfectly suited to the 3, and his height and wing span gives him huge advantage at that position.

    Go ZAGS

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    this has been a terrific post-game thread.

    thanks all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tyra View Post
    Going out on a limb here but I think too much is being made of Chet’s “disappearance” in this game. Granted, he wasn’t scoring last night and he did have foul trouble but here is what I saw: 1) He completely altered nearly every drive penetration, 2) He stretched the O to Drew’s benefit, and 3) On a per minute basis, he was the leading rebounder. He will definitely have many much better games overall but he definitely helped us in the win last night.
    I'm not worried at all. This was a game that he will learn from. He committed some silly fouls and will be a guy that will score points as well. He needs to take a few rocks out of the backpack, alot of weight on him currently with all the hype and #1 pick talk. He will be a stud.
    America's Team!

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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaSERE View Post
    If we start our only 3 bigs, who subs in for them? I like Watson off the bench giving us a 3 man rotation at the 4 and 5 spot
    PERRY....GREGG...BOTH ARE GOOD PLAYERS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gueastcoast View Post
    Not to go off on a tangent but I think we need to exorcise the Baylor demons...there were a lot of dumb hot-takes then (and now) that Timme was "exposed", the Zags were "out-toughed" etc.

    The fact the boys were physically and emotionally gassed after a game for the ages against UCLA and carrying an undefeated number one ranking all season doesn't rate the same attention.

    No question that Baylor team looked like men against boys in the Natty (and had for most of the season), shot lights out and earned their due. That said, front court depth for us last season vs. this year is night and day...by the end of this season, I'd think we'd more than hold our own with that Baylor team.

    Put differently, I think the Baylor game was indeed a fluke -- a particularly bad personnel and existential matchup. I don't think it presents any lessons for this team, this year.
    Timme was exposed in that game. he was the target they attacked very successfully along with nemby on the glass. that's historical fact now, the past.

    the present from last night is the maturity he showed in being 100% ready for the battle, and I'd argue that Baylor game helped him there; he was primed to go off last night, and he did.

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    This team reminds me very much of Morrison’s final year. Offense flows through Timme and is presently one-dimensional. Now, this team has a lot more athleticism and talent, so the potential is higher.

    I suspect that will change by mid-year, after the freshmen get more reps.

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    Chet's presence near the basket on D is intimidating to any opponent. That was clear on multiple occasions last night. It will be invaluable throughout the season. Money.
    "The best players will play. That's the way it will always be." Larry Bird

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    Quote Originally Posted by amaronizag View Post
    I'm not trying to argue, but it looked to me like we let TX shoot wide open shots the entire first half. They just couldn't make any. I guess the strategy was to sag into the middle and let them shoot from outside. When TX was getting wide open looks in the first half, I was surprised Sallis didn't get more run time. I thought our first half defense was awful. AND it took a career night from Timme to win by 12. Timme was the entire focus of our offense because he could and did dominate and score at will--I get that. They didn't have anybody that could stop him. However, several others didn't appear to have that ability and were not very successful in their attempts to score. I knew the early lead would dwindle because TX would eventually start to hit some of those wide open shots. Still early, but our defense needs work. I think we will have a great defensive team soon. Really glad to coast to a win and build some confidence from this game, but also to show some of the warts and areas that need a lot of work. UCLA is going to be tough. They shoot well at all positions from the perimeter and have better players than TX at every position.
    I thought it was to protect Drew, who looked like he was playing a one man zone for a long time 1st half, only matching up on the perimeter after his man touched the ball, so as not to collect fouls. Maybe I'm wrong.

    There were some open looks tho from a D like that. who knows if Few and co. keep doing that? Maybe with this younger group it'll be more of a base D orientation, but the Few and co. have become game to game defensive tacticians the past few years, adjusting game to game and in game. will be fun to watch!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagLawGrad View Post
    Chet's presence near the basket on D is intimidating to any opponent. That was clear on multiple occasions last night. It will be invaluable throughout the season. Money.
    +100 great guy behind Drew at the basket, like a plus 20% bonus for all defenders

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    Red face Solid

    Really like the quiet efficiency and confidence brought by Nolan Hickman.



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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsObserver View Post
    This team reminds me very much of Morrison’s final year. Offense flows through Timme and is presently one-dimensional. Now, this team has a lot more athleticism and talent, so the potential is higher.

    I suspect that will change by mid-year, after the freshmen get more reps.
    I agree on the observation and the prediction. What should be worrisome for other teams is that GU hasn’t really even gotten its ball screen game, or the big-to-big high-low stuff going much yet.
    Last edited by JPtheBeasta; 11-15-2021 at 12:04 AM. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    I agree on the observation and the prediction. What should be worrisome for other teams is that GU hasn’t really even got its ball screen game, or the big-to-big high-low stuff going much yet.
    Exactly
    "The best players will play. That's the way it will always be." Larry Bird

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    Again, the jury is still out on how we would match up against a physical team like Baylor. Not sure, this year, is there a team like Baylor on our schedule and in the NCAA's who is like Baylor last year. The Big 10 is always physical and so is the ACC.Duke's roster shows 4 guys over 240 and two of those 7-0. Ive heard about Paolo Banchero who is 6-10 and 250 and is number 3 behind Holmgren as a freshman this year. We have no bangers this year. Only Timme comes close to what they have at 6-10 and 235 so it wil be interesting how they play. We should have gotten a banger tranfer that would give us some heft and depth in the front court but we didn't so whats going to happen. I would think they would do a slow down game and try to beat us insider with their heigth and depth. They certainly will do like Baylordid llast year and beat up on Timne with a double team of big men and we should have passed it around a lot more against Texas and have Holmgren get a lot more shots becuause I think he will be a big factor against Duke. This will be a big big game coming up on the 23rd as its this game that will give us a chance to exorcise our deamons so to speak. What do you all think.

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    +1
    Holmgren is to be credited for playing what came to him and not forcing it. Top players often feel they have to be the hero every night. He didn't make many mistakes other than getting into foul trouble, and this is typical of frosh big men. Karno was fouling out of a lot of his early games as a frosh.

    I also agree that in this game I did not see dirty defense by TX, but like someone said on the TX message board, it takes Beard several months to teach his kind of defense to new players, and all of his team (except one guy?) are new to his coaching. His players will be handsy dirty defense players by March, I predict.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsGoZags View Post
    +1
    Holmgren is to be credited for playing what came to him and not forcing it. Top players often feel they have to be the hero every night. He didn't make many mistakes other than getting into foul trouble, and this is typical of frosh big men.
    I dunno - I think in the 1st half Texas was intimidated by the legend of Chet, but in the 2nd half they started attacking him and he picked up 4 fouls (all in the 2nd half). Had they started attacking Holmgren earlier in the game this could have been a different story. The jury is still out on this, but I get the feeling that Holmgren got a case of the freshman jitters with all the hype surrounding him, the scouts, and the matchup. I'm not a scout, but I would have a hard time believing they didn't take a good amount of notes on his overall performance. Contrast that with Banchero's game against Kentucky. We'll see how things go and we should get a good sense of where he is at by the beginning of December.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strikenowhere View Post
    I dunno - I think in the 1st half Texas was intimidated by the legend of Chet, but in the 2nd half they started attacking him and he picked up 4 fouls (all in the 2nd half). Had they started attacking Holmgren earlier in the game this could have been a different story. The jury is still out on this, but I get the feeling that Holmgren got a case of the freshman jitters with all the hype surrounding him, the scouts, and the matchup. I'm not a scout, but I would have a hard time believing they didn't take a good amount of notes on his overall performance. Contrast that with Banchero's game against Kentucky. We'll see how things go and we should get a good sense of where he is at by the beginning of December.
    Long term, maybe it’s a mitzvah and he just stays another year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strikenowhere View Post
    I dunno - I think in the 1st half Texas was intimidated by the legend of Chet, but in the 2nd half they started attacking him and he picked up 4 fouls (all in the 2nd half). Had they started attacking Holmgren earlier in the game this could have been a different story. The jury is still out on this, but I get the feeling that Holmgren got a case of the freshman jitters with all the hype surrounding him, the scouts, and the matchup. I'm not a scout, but I would have a hard time believing they didn't take a good amount of notes on his overall performance. Contrast that with Banchero's game against Kentucky. We'll see how things go and we should get a good sense of where he is at by the beginning of December.
    I love Banchero's game, always have. He's big, assertive, yet soft hands, great positioning in the post, and has some finesse to him. Has a nose for the ball and solid footwork given his age.

    He will be a really solid NBA player, yet no where near the same type of ceiling or skillset as Chet.

    Chet will have a longer trajectory to being elite compared to Paolo, yet Chet is unlike anything we've seen at his size in a long time.

    Texas did a great job using two 6'7" Senior forwards (21 & 22 yrs old) body him up on box outs and staying low to his frame/body. Chet really couldn't get much balance playing vs the smaller, yet stronger post players.

    Chet did much better when paired up vs 6'10" Tre Mitchell in terms of body position in the post -- getting rebounds, jumps for blocks, post position, etc.

    But Banchero is going to be an issue for us. He has that size and finesse to give our guys fits on both ends of the floor. its just another reason I've been preaching getting Kaden Perry minutes. His size and athleticism could be valuable for a few fouls and defensive possessions when we face Duke.

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    Just a few clips of Holmgren scaring them away from the rim. The first half is full of clips like this. The last clip shows 4 times where they started attacking and then reconsidered, finally settling for a jumper over Strawther.

    https://youtu.be/-c1guGOkPcI?t=130
    https://youtu.be/-c1guGOkPcI?t=188
    https://youtu.be/-c1guGOkPcI?t=226
    https://youtu.be/-c1guGOkPcI?t=257
    https://youtu.be/-c1guGOkPcI?t=294

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