View Poll Results: Should Gonzaga join the Big East if offered as a full member?

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Thread: Should we Join the Big East if offered

  1. #1

    Default Should we Join the Big East if offered

    I have been reading and posting on the Big East Message board on a thread about additions to the Big East. There has been some discussion about how Gonzaga fans may not want to join even if offered. Not sure where everyone is at on this so I thought I would create a poll to see and share.

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    If we can figure out a landing place for non-basketball sports, we should definitely take the invite. Fox would cover all time-zones with that TV deal. Bigly money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Go Zags!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post
    If we can figure out a landing place for non-basketball sports, we should definitely take the invite. Fox would cover all time-zones with that TV deal. Bigly money.
    Wondering if the bigly money would cover the travel costs for non-hoops sports. Also, some level of travel accommodations to limit the coast to coast trips would need to part of the package IMHO. But I am more than down with the idea... mostly because I'd get to see them play more often.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Wondering if the bigly money would cover the travel costs for non-hoops sports. Also, some level of travel accommodations to limit the coast to coast trips would need to part of the package IMHO. But I am more than down with the idea... mostly because I'd get to see them play more often.
    Haha you and me both - see you at MSG, Pavilion, and the Prudential Center!

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    Quote Originally Posted by strikenowhere View Post
    Haha you and me both - see you at MSG, Pavilion, and the Prudential Center!
    Hell Carneseca Court in Jamaica, Queens. I still have connections at SJU
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Wondering if the bigly money would cover the travel costs for non-hoops sports. Also, some level of travel accommodations to limit the coast to coast trips would need to part of the package IMHO. But I am more than down with the idea... mostly because I'd get to see them play more often.
    What I mean by "landing spot for non-basketball sports" is they would stay in the WCC or another regional conference. I agree with you that making smaller D1 sports travel to Philadelphia makes no sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Go Zags!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post
    What I mean by "landing spot for non-basketball sports" is they would stay in the WCC or another regional conference. I agree with you that making smaller D1 sports travel to Philadelphia makes no sense.
    Although I think it is still doable. My daughter played D2 tennis, she had plenty of matches way upstate or in DC over her 4 years. Those were a minimum of 5-7 hours of driving.... all the other sports were in the same division so they were making similar trips for baseball/soccer/Lax/field hockey etc. Those times aren't radically different than a direct charter flight from Spokane to say NYC or DC.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

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    I'm amazed that there are already five people poo-pooing this. Would you rather play St. Mary's or Villanova? San Francisco or Creighton? LMU or Seton Hall? San Diego or Butler? Every single team (outside of DePaul lol) is in upgrade compared to the teams in the WCC

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Wondering if the bigly money would cover the travel costs for non-hoops sports. Also, some level of travel accommodations to limit the coast to coast trips would need to part of the package IMHO. But I am more than down with the idea... mostly because I'd get to see them play more often.
    Here we go again.

    I did a pretty thorough financial analysis on the entire GU athletic programs joining the Big East on one of the previous (numerous) Big East threads. Somebody else can find the link and post it for your review.

    The increase in funding based on the current Big East TV contract far exceeds (by several million) what the increase in costs to the entire Gonzaga athletic program. Money, from the Gonzaga side is not the reason they would not join the Big East. Some of the reasons Gonzaga would not join the Big East include.

    - Gonzaga is not offered an opportunity to join. Having Gonzaga's athletic programs join the Big East would increase the costs of travel to all of the Big East teams and all of their sports (money making and not). The cost of adding GU is shared by all of the teams in the Big East. Pretty minor cost to get GU basketball. However, would the addition of Gonzaga to the Big East increase the TV revenue sufficiently to offset the increase in travel costs to all of the Big East athletic programs?

    - Playing 50% of your conference games in the Central and Eastern time zones would likely mean additional lay-over days for the sports (non-basketball) which fly charter. It is not the cost of the additional lay-over days but the increase in more missed days of school.

    - While the competition in Mbb would significantly increase, and the competition in Wbb may increase slightly depending on the year, for many or most of the non-basketball sports, leaving the WCC for the Big East may be a step down in competition.

    - Gonzaga is the big dog in the WCC and typically (on many issues) drives the bus. In the Big East, the Zags would not drive the bus but would be one of the bus riders. They would have a voice of one, just like everybody else in the Big East.

    While I know this is the Mbb board and nothing else matters, the GU Athletic Department has to consider the impact on all of the Zag sports not just Mbb. Mbb may have the most weight (maybe by far) but they are not the only voice.

    ZagDad

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    Of all the Zag men's sports teams only basketball, baseball and soccer play a full collection of WCC schools in their schedule. It would certainly not be the inconvenience I first thought it would be. Other sports often play in conference tournaments but not a full compliment of conference games that would require constant travel for those teams. It leaves me much more interested in moving.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Although I think it is still doable. My daughter played D2 tennis, she had plenty of matches way upstate or in DC over her 4 years. Those were a minimum of 5-7 hours of driving.... all the other sports were in the same division so they were making similar trips for baseball/soccer/Lax/field hockey etc. Those times aren't radically different than a direct charter flight from Spokane to say NYC or DC.
    A 5-7 hour bus ride gets you from your gym to their gym. A 5-7 hour plane ride gets you from airport to airport. You’ll probably add 2-3 hours getting to and from the airport, plus the 2-3 hour time zone difference. Our longest current conference road trip would become our shortest in the Big East. Travel is definitely an issue that will need to be figured out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    Here we go again.

    I did a pretty thorough financial analysis on the entire GU athletic programs joining the Big East on one of the previous (numerous) Big East threads. Somebody else can find the link and post it for your review.

    The increase in funding based on the current Big East TV contract far exceeds (by several million) what the increase in costs to the entire Gonzaga athletic program. Money, from the Gonzaga side is not the reason they would not join the Big East. Some of the reasons Gonzaga would not join the Big East include.

    - Gonzaga is not offered an opportunity to join. Having Gonzaga's athletic programs join the Big East would increase the costs of travel to all of the Big East teams and all of their sports (money making and not). The cost of adding GU is shared by all of the teams in the Big East. Pretty minor cost to get GU basketball. However, would the addition of Gonzaga to the Big East increase the TV revenue sufficiently to offset the increase in travel costs to all of the Big East athletic programs?

    - Playing 50% of your conference games in the Central and Eastern time zones would likely mean additional lay-over days for the sports (non-basketball) which fly charter. It is not the cost of the additional lay-over days but the increase in more missed days of school.

    - While the competition in Mbb would significantly increase, and the competition in Wbb may increase slightly depending on the year, for many or most of the non-basketball sports, leaving the WCC for the Big East may be a step down in competition.

    - Gonzaga is the big dog in the WCC and typically (on many issues) drives the bus. In the Big East, the Zags would not drive the bus but would be one of the bus riders. They would have a voice of one, just like everybody else in the Big East.

    While I know this is the Mbb board and nothing else matters, the GU Athletic Department has to consider the impact on all of the Zag sports not just Mbb. Mbb may have the most weight (maybe by far) but they are not the only voice.

    ZagDad
    This is another issue I have with a Big East move. It only helps men’s basketball. Downgrade for soccer, baseball, volleyball. Lateral move for women’s basketball, other than you can kiss ever winning a championship goodbye with UConn in the conference. The only benefit for those sports is the extra money from being in the Big East. The decision can’t only be about men’s basketball.

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    It should be all sports and the tv money should be big enough to cover all sports. I am not worried about jet lag for 17-22 year olds. They will likely be excited and up for it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdmiller7 View Post
    This is another issue I have with a Big East move. It only helps men’s basketball. Downgrade for soccer, baseball, volleyball. Lateral move for women’s basketball, other than you can kiss ever winning a championship goodbye with UConn in the conference. The only benefit for those sports is the extra money from being in the Big East. The decision can’t only be about men’s basketball.
    Leave non-basketball sports in the WCC. Problem solved. Geno Auriemma is 67 years old. How long do you think he'll coach for?

    Quote Originally Posted by zagfan1 View Post
    It should be all sports and the tv money should be big enough to cover all sports. I am not worried about jet lag for 17-22 year olds. They will likely be excited and up for it!
    Non-basketball sports aren't profitable enough to justify the travel expenses. The basketball teams and the donors have to foot the bill.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Go Zags!!!

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    I don't like the idea of the possibility of tipoff times as well as potential days we play conference games changing to accommodate east coast fans/ teams. Think about it, if tip time is 6 or 7 eastern on say, a Tuesday, how many of you will be able to watch it live? And this could very well end up being tip time for games at the Kennel if the network wants east coast fans to tune in.

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    I was torn on this, but ultimately voted yes.

    In the late 60's-early '70s when I was growing up near Philly, the Big 5 usually had 3 teams in the top 20 nationally. Nova reached the champ game v Kareem's UCLA, LaSalle was ranked 2nd behind UCLA another yr, the Penn Quakers were once ranked 4th with a couple of NBAers. Jazz knows all about the great St Joe's teams w/ Jack Ramsay. Temple is still pretty high on the all time wins list.

    That all changed when college BB became a big time commercial attraction after Magic/Bird in the '79 finals. Almost all the top players started going to power 5 schools, and you no longer saw Spencer Haywood at Detroit, Calvin Murphy at Niagara, Jim McDaniels at Western Ky, etc.

    Back to the Big 5. Today only Villanova is a player on the national scene, and it's due to their conference affiliation. The three A10 schools and the Ivy school can't compete in the modern landscape.

    When a small school becomes a power, it's generally because of a coaching genius at the helm. When that guy retires or leaves, the school cycles back into the pack. Once Bennett retires at SMC, for example, it's pretty logical to expect a regression to the WCC mean.

    Stay in the WCC, and the cyclical history of the game suggests that GU won't sustain its status in the upper echelon in a decade or two.

    ETA: of course the above doesn't take non-revenue sports' conference status and revenues/logistics into account.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post

    Leave non-basketball sports in the WCC. Problem solved.

    Non-basketball sports aren't profitable enough to justify the travel expenses. The basketball teams and the donors have to foot the bill.
    What makes you think the WCC will let the non-basketball sports stay in the WCC? You just took the WCC's biggest funding source away and gave them the middle finger what incentive do the WCC member schools have to allow the non-revenue generating Gonzaga sports teams to stay in the WCC? You seem to think that Gonzaga has a say in where their non-revenue generating sports teams play, which is simply likely not the case. IMO, the WCC says, you made your choice to move to the Big East, take your non-revenue generating teams with you and now live with the ramifications of your choice.

    You are correct in that the basketball teams and donors have to foot the bill for the non-revenue generating sports which is true no matter where you play.

    While I think it would be the best of both worlds, FOR GONZAGA, to take basketball to the Big East and leave all of the other sports teams in the WCC, I don't think Gonzaga is going to be given that choice.

    ZagDad

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    Quote Originally Posted by maynard g krebs View Post
    I was torn on this, but ultimately voted yes.

    In the late 60's-early '70s when I was growing up near Philly, the Big 5 usually had 3 teams in the top 20 nationally. Nova reached the champ game v Kareem's UCLA, LaSalle was ranked 2nd behind UCLA another yr, the Penn Quakers were once ranked 4th with a couple of NBAers. Jazz knows all about the great St Joe's teams w/ Jack Ramsay. Temple is still pretty high on the all time wins list.

    That all changed when college BB became a big time commercial attraction after Magic/Bird in the '79 finals. Almost all the top players started going to power 5 schools, and you no longer saw Spencer Haywood at Detroit, Calvin Murphy at Niagara, Jim McDaniels at Western Ky, etc.

    Back to the Big 5. Today only Villanova is a player on the national scene, and it's due to their conference affiliation. The three A10 schools and the Ivy school can't compete in the modern landscape.

    When a small school becomes a power, it's generally because of a coaching genius at the helm. When that guy retires or leaves, the school cycles back into the pack. Once Bennett retires at SMC, for example, it's pretty logical to expect a regression to the WCC mean.

    Stay in the WCC, and the cyclical history of the game suggests that GU won't sustain its status in the upper echelon in a decade or two.

    ETA: of course the above doesn't take non-revenue sports' conference status and revenues/logistics into account.
    Thanks for the nod, May. I think that era of CBB jumped the shark when Al turned down the NCAA for the NIT.

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    I think future of non-revenue generating sports is dim.

    If Stanford is cutting back with their endowment

    Stanford announced on Wednesday it will discontinue 11 varsity sports at the end of the 2020-21 academic year, including men's and women's fencing, field hockey and men's volleyball.
    The discontinued programs will be able to complete their 2020-21 seasons "should the circumstances surrounding COVID-19 allow it," per Stanford. Wrestling, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, co-ed and women’s sailing, squash and synchronized swimming comprise the other eight programs cut by the university.
    https://www.si.com/college/2020/07/0...ball-wrestling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    I think future of non-revenue generating sports is dim.

    If Stanford is cutting back with their endowment


    https://www.si.com/college/2020/07/0...ball-wrestling
    This article is well over a year old and I’m pretty sure Stanford kept most of those sports after backlash.

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    If we want to be stuck playing Portland, Santa Clara, Pacific etc then let's stay in the WCC and see how relevant we stay. We gotta do something, no other way around it.
    America's Team!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    What makes you think the WCC will let the non-basketball sports stay in the WCC? You just took the WCC's biggest funding source away and gave them the middle finger what incentive do the WCC member schools have to allow the non-revenue generating Gonzaga sports teams to stay in the WCC? You seem to think that Gonzaga has a say in where their non-revenue generating sports teams play, which is simply likely not the case. IMO, the WCC says, you made your choice to move to the Big East, take your non-revenue generating teams with you and now live with the ramifications of your choice.

    You are correct in that the basketball teams and donors have to foot the bill for the non-revenue generating sports which is true no matter where you play.

    While I think it would be the best of both worlds, FOR GONZAGA, to take basketball to the Big East and leave all of the other sports teams in the WCC, I don't think Gonzaga is going to be given that choice.

    ZagDad
    Good point on the WCC and the Zags being the cash cow... Cut a deal where the Zags will play 4 to 5 WCC teams in the OOC portion of the season each year .... all as the visiting team so WCC schools can generate revenue... in exchange the WCC allows the Zags to keep the other sports in the conference.

    Logic says any NCAA funds due to GU would disappear with a move to the BE.

    Just my opinion

    Go!! Zags!!!
    "Learn from the past, Plan for the future, Live in the Now!"

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    Smile Pondered, pondered,...

    ...voted "yes." So exciting thinking of yearly games vs. Xavier, Nova, and Creighton at their places then getting their return trips to our place. Fox Sports would be a new "conference tv" experience. I like, though, how they'd be able to do an entire day's worth of programming by putting the Zags's home games as their "late night" (East Coast) game. Another likely experience would be a twice yearly Atlantic Coast trip consisting of three games in one visit (e.g. Nova/Thu, UConn/Sat, and St. John's/Tues).

    On the other hand, if this fan had a magic wand (and 20/20 foresight), I'd conjure up a hybrid of the best of the WCC + MWC + WAC -- and keep our conference games out West.


    :]

    <Only pondering men/women's b-ball for Big East membership. A hybrid best of the West would, I'm guessing, be better for our less glamorous sports.>
    Last edited by Kiddwell; 10-20-2021 at 10:49 PM.
    Yeah, we're "The Champs," uh-huh!

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    We're doing well as things are. Aren't we?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    We're doing well as things are. Aren't we?
    That's my take as well.

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