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Thread: Fanning The Flames - Big East Expansion

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinfoilzag View Post
    I'm glad it came through because you made it sound like riding in a chartered jet has negative physiological/psychological effects on players. The ones I have talked to enjoy the trips.
    Thanks. I'm thinking of the physical effects of being cooped up in a small space. Muscle, joints, and similar. Plus, the guys's conference trips on a chartered jet, so far, have been short trips compared to flying to Washington, Philly, and similar.




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    Yeah, we're "The Champs," uh-huh!

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    Seems like it has a chance. Definitely worth trying to figure out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddwell View Post
    Thanks. I'm thinking of the physical effects of being cooped up in a small space. Muscle, joints, and similar. Plus, the guys's conference trips on a chartered jet, so far, have been short trips compared to flying to Washington, Philly, and similar.




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    Echo tin man. Economy is no fun. Business class is marginally better. First class is a different experience. Now, I’m not 7-foot. How does the GU jet compare? Comfy for the big guys?

  4. #29
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    For 100% personal reasons… need this to happen so I can see the zags in person every year
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

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  5. #30
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    I, too, was doubtful about the geographical remoteness for teams other than basketball. Then I remembered looking into schedules for both men's crew and golf. I remembered neither has a traditional conference schedule and would not need to travel the same as the basketball team. Cross country, tennis plus track and field do not either have the same type of conference schedule. I am not so sure the geographical remoteness is the hurdle I first thought.
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    I feel like if they ask, we say yes. Baseball as a pretty solid program, soccer has potential, but basketball is everything in Spokane. Zags have got a good thing going financially, but I’ve got to think revenue from a big East deal including Gonzaga would cover the extra chattering costs.

    The ‘but they don’t play anyone’ gets replaced with ‘sure you play a ten elite in conference per year, but you’ll have 5 long flights to the Midwest (probably replacing 2-3 ooc games) and northeast.

  7. #32
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    As Kidwell alluded to, it might mean a multi-game trip back east for travel, so not a 2 game weekend set, but maybe 3-4 games over the course of a week. Those would be long for sure, but you'd only need to do a few of those and negotiate that maybe the one game opponents are played back home.

    With a 12 team league and 20 game schedule (trying to expand on the article linked above) you would play 9 teams twice (so home and home) and two 1 game opponents (or skip a team each year to play a home and home). So that's 10 road games. If you did a long trip back east for four games over a week, you'd have two of those and then another more traditional two game weekend road trip (maybe that's a midwest trip). Thee upside is you'll have long stretches back home in between the road trips.

    Of course I'm just spitballing this and this would have to work as part of a larger overall schedule of games for all 12 teams. Bigger issue might be what would the other teams do when they fly out here? Fly all the way to Spokane for one game and then all the way back east for another game? You only have to do that once a season, but that's quite a lot of flying for one game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    For 100% personal reasons… need this to happen so I can see the zags in person every year
    I live Orange County and been to many games in Cali….would love love love the chance to travel back East and see Zags play in BE conference and drink beers in LI

  9. #34
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    Always good to remember that very few teams in the BE have our record the past 10 or so years. NC in2017 and back to back last and the upcoming year most likely. We ARE thee commodity. They should be bending over backwards to figure this out.
    Our mission hasn’t really changed up but the Basketball program has.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddwell View Post
    Thanks. I'm thinking of the physical effects of being cooped up in a small space. Muscle, joints, and similar. Plus, the guys's conference trips on a chartered jet, so far, have been short trips compared to flying to Washington, Philly, and similar.




    :]
    Florida, Hawaii, Bahamas, they travel every year. 2 east coast trips and 1 Midwest trip a year is nothing.

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    The BE tournament at the Garden would become a #1 bucket list item. Start spreading the news….

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    Anyone more familiar with Zag sports such as Golf, Tennis, Track & Field, Rowing, & Cross Country explain how their scheduling works regarding conference opponents? I looked through the various sports schedules on Gozags.com and the only sports I see where the team is actually traveling to their conference opponents seems to be baseball, softball, basketball, volleyball, & soccer. The other sports seem to have a bunch of meets, many of which are already scattered around the country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    The BE tournament at the Garden would become a #1 bucket list item. Start spreading the news….
    Good god yes I would be there in a heartbeat - drive to Secaucus, park, and take the PATH train into Penn Station!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    The BE tournament at the Garden would become a #1 bucket list item. Start spreading the news….
    It is interesting that, despite all those basketball powerhouses, it would be the addition of Gonzaga that would make it a #1 bucket list item.
    I'm laughing. Why aren't you?

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    idea from a comment section

    The New Big East could be divided into 3 pods:

    Pod 1. Gonzaga, Creighton, Marquette, Depaul

    Pod 2: Bulter, Xavier, Villanova, Georgetown

    Pod 4. Seton Hall, St. Johns, UConn, Providence.

    You play teams in your pod twice a year every year, play teams 2 teams in each of the other pods twice/year and the other two teams once/year. The scheduled would require 3 east coast swings per year, 1 chicago/milwaukee swing, and only one one-off trip to Omaha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    It is interesting that, despite all those basketball powerhouses, it would be the addition of Gonzaga that would make it a #1 bucket list item.
    It’s already extremely popular back East. Adding GU makes it #1 for us, was my thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strikenowhere View Post
    Good god yes I would be there in a heartbeat - drive to Secaucus, park, and take the PATH train into Penn Station!
    See-caucus, isn’t that, um, a popular organized crime burial site?

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    I’m starting to believe that the Big East might be feasible as a destination for Gonzaga.

    The Big East wants Gonzaga games as a marketing opportunity for the league’s next round of television rights negotiations. Gonzaga obviously brings the interest of a top ten national program, but it also brings something that no Big East program presently offers - live programming in the Pacific Time Zone. The league could sell eleven late night games to any bidding network each year, if Gonzaga hosts every Big East team. The league would be able to pitch that Big East programming could run from prime time on the East Coast to late night without interruption.

    The travel challenges for Gonzaga would be huge, but what if Gonzaga didn’t reciprocate with eleven return games? What if Gonzaga took just three two-game road trips per year to play Big East opponents? The Big East teams might cry foul, because the Zags would have more games with the home court advantage, but the Zags would still have a greater travel burden than any other team in the league. Each team would have one cross country trip versus Gonzaga’s three long road trips. The Zags could require that the Gonzaga men and women play the same opponents each week to put both programs on the same charter planes. The Lady Zags might visit Xavier on Wednesday and Butler on Friday with the men playing those teams on Thursday and Saturday. Gonzaga would likely require that all road trips hit two programs in close proximity, such as Marquette/DePaul or UConn/Providence, or St. John’s/Seton Hall.

    Gonzaga wouldn’t necessarily need to move the non-basketball sports. We could ask the WCC to keep those programs. We might sweeten the deal by offering guaranteed non-conference basketball games against the Zags and Lady Zags. If the WCC still declines, the school could move those sports to another league, such as the Mountain West, WAC, Big West or Big Sky.

    Could it work? Would the Big East agree to that arrangement?
    Gonzaga has defeated Baylor, Illinois, Virginia, Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, UCLA, Arizona, Creighton, Oklahoma, Florida State, Texas A&M, Oregon, Iowa, West Virginia, Auburn, USC, and Washington over just the past three seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    See-caucus, isn’t that, um, a popular organized crime burial site?
    The pines Jazz... the Pinebarrens..

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    The pines Jazz... the Pinebarrens..
    “Get yourself a gun……”

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    “Get yourself a gun……”
    Isn't that Annie? Today they are all Karen's.
    I'm laughing. Why aren't you?

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    I am sorry, but I just don't see how the WCC hurts Gonzaga, and I feel this flirtation with the Big East is just to better GU's lot in the WCC. In the early years....say, around 2004, I could see it. But right now GU basically has total control over its schedule, and it's level of success and consistent success have shown you can dominate in major college basketball without being in a huge conference. They make the tourney every year with a high seed. I also feel geography is the #1 reason for their success and development as a program. It isn't a hindrance. They are a great program headed by a great coach that coaches in an area with very few D-1 schools but a plethora of talent, and as GU is proving with its recruiting move into places like Minneapolis and Chicago, they can recruit all over......selectively. I don't want to be in a league with a bunch of functional programs competing for elite recruits who need to be convinced that it's better to move to Spokane than stay in Brooklyn or Newark. I just don't wish to wear out a good team, both academically and athletically. And again, I have spoken with a few basketball writers who say that the Big East is not making out as well as people think, BASKETBALL wise, with its TV deal with FOX. You are on ESPN or you are not. You would be shocked by how little readership Villanova gets despite being an elite program. For all their success, a basketball article about Gonzaga is likely to be read as much if not more than a Nova article......even with the titles.

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    Thoughtful CDC thanks for ur input.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
    I am sorry, but I just don't see how the WCC hurts Gonzaga, and I feel this flirtation with the Big East is just to better GU's lot in the WCC. In the early years....say, around 2004, I could see it. But right now GU basically has total control over its schedule, and it's level of success and consistent success have shown you can dominate in major college basketball without being in a huge conference. They make the tourney every year with a high seed. I also feel geography is the #1 reason for their success and development as a program. It isn't a hindrance. They are a great program headed by a great coach that coaches in an area with very few D-1 schools but a plethora of talent, and as GU is proving with its recruiting move into places like Minneapolis and Chicago, they can recruit all over......selectively. I don't want to be in a league with a bunch of functional programs competing for elite recruits who need to be convinced that it's better to move to Spokane than stay in Brooklyn or Newark. I just don't wish to wear out a good team, both academically and athletically. And again, I have spoken with a few basketball writers who say that the Big East is not making out as well as people think, BASKETBALL wise, with its TV deal with FOX. You are on ESPN or you are not. You would be shocked by how little readership Villanova gets despite being an elite program. For all their success, a basketball article about Gonzaga is likely to be read as much if not more than a Nova article......even with the titles.
    Hey CDC let me offer a rebuttal to some of your arguments here:

    But right now GU basically has total control over its schedule, and it's level of success and consistent success have shown you can dominate in major college basketball without being in a huge conference.
    GU certainly has a lot of control over its schedule right now, BUT with all the power conferences coalescing into their own solar systems the opportunity for scheduling big time programs is 100% going to diminish as the # of conference games goes up.
    You already are seeing that with PAC-12 & Big 10 conference games starting in December! Additionally I would argue that BYU's addition to the WCC in '11-'12 has actually helped elevate Gonzaga a great deal. BYU has proven to be a quality opponent year after year, offering 2-3 top 75 RPI/NET games every year that the Zags were otherwise getting on a consistent basis from the rest of the league besides SMC. BYU leaving is taking a big plank out of the support floor that Gonzaga has in the WCC.

    I also feel geography is the #1 reason for their success and development as a program. It isn't a hindrance.
    This isn't going to change; the University wouldn't be physically moving itself across the country!

    I don't want to be in a league with a bunch of functional programs competing for elite recruits who need to be convinced that it's better to move to Spokane than stay in Brooklyn or Newark.
    I really don't think the conference affiliation would require Gonzaga to have to try and recruit East Coast kids anymore than they were already doing, which seems like close to zero (only Keegan Hyland & Gerard Coleman come to mind). Gonzaga would still recruit nationally, with a focus on the West Coast. If anything, Gonzaga would be using the opportunity to play against storied programs such as Villanova, Georgetown, UConn, etc. as recruiting chips for their normal recruiting targets.

    I just don't wish to wear out a good team, both academically and athletically.
    Everyone is concerned with the travel, but there are certainly ways to mitigate the effects:

    • Multiple road games per single trips
    • Large & more comfortable charter jet (paid by donors enthusiastic about playing against bigger programs)
    • Reduced OOC travel (turn into Syracuse! j/k)
    • $$$$$ from bigger TV revenue


    Additionally how worn out are these kids really going to get? They are 18-21 year-olds; I really doubt the travel has THAT much of an effect on them. I think a lot of people are looking at the travel thru the lense of a middle-aged man/woman as opposed to eager kids jet-setting around the country to play a game they love in places they otherwise don't get to travel to.

    And again, I have spoken with a few basketball writers who say that the Big East is not making out as well as people think, BASKETBALL wise, with its TV deal with FOX. You are on ESPN or you are not.
    I think of all the things that are affecting realignment this is by far the biggest elephant in the room. The Big East's tv contract with Fox runs out after the '24-'25 season. The WCC extended their contract back in 2019 through 2027. I am not sure of the specifics of the WCC contract, but I would have to imagine that there are clauses in place that handle the loss of a team from the conference, particularly either GU or BYU. It is quite likely that as it stands in '23 that everyone in the WCC is going to take a hit with a loss of TV revenue due to BYU leaving the conference. As for the Big East, with their contract expiring in only a few years there is going to be a big push to negotiate for more money and quite simply adding Gonzaga would be a tremendous bargaining chip for the Big East negotiations. The WCC is going to lose money due to BYU's exit, and the Big East is in the position to negotiate for a bigger contract in '25, with the potential of adding Gonzaga to increase the amount even more. Imagine Fox (or whoever else) being able to run Big East games for an entire evening on the East Coast? I know I sure as hell would be watching!

    On a related note ESPN seems to be in a bit of a precarious position at the moment; reports are that Bob Chapek at Disney is looking at potentially spinning ESPN off from the company. Who knows what kind of effect this would have on TV programming? Without the Mouse providing a financial backstop, you could potentially be looking at programming cuts across the board. There is definitely a bit of uncertainty going on over there.


    Finally I would say this - the Gonzaga athletics program simply deserves the promotion. All the work that Few, the staff, the university & the players have put in have transformed a small-time Jesuit university that was on the verge of going to DIII before the start of the run into a national powerhouse that is now treated as the the equal of Duke, Carolina, Kentucky, & Kansas. Why shouldn't the program move onto a much more prestigious circle of universities & colleges? If BYU gets to join the Big 12 after having a mediocre independent football team and lots of 2nd place finishes in the WCC then CERTAINLY Gonzaga has earned the right to graduate from the WCC and join a big-boy conference. The Zags transformation is literally the same as taking a podunk school like Western Illinois in NCAA 2k8, playing in dynasty mode, and having them ascend to the top of the basketball world (minus all the championships...so far).

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
    I am sorry, but I just don't see how the WCC hurts Gonzaga, and I feel this flirtation with the Big East is just to better GU's lot in the WCC. In the early years....say, around 2004, I could see it. But right now GU basically has total control over its schedule, and it's level of success and consistent success have shown you can dominate in major college basketball without being in a huge conference. They make the tourney every year with a high seed. I also feel geography is the #1 reason for their success and development as a program. It isn't a hindrance. They are a great program headed by a great coach that coaches in an area with very few D-1 schools but a plethora of talent, and as GU is proving with its recruiting move into places like Minneapolis and Chicago, they can recruit all over......selectively. I don't want to be in a league with a bunch of functional programs competing for elite recruits who need to be convinced that it's better to move to Spokane than stay in Brooklyn or Newark. I just don't wish to wear out a good team, both academically and athletically. And again, I have spoken with a few basketball writers who say that the Big East is not making out as well as people think, BASKETBALL wise, with its TV deal with FOX. You are on ESPN or you are not. You would be shocked by how little readership Villanova gets despite being an elite program. For all their success, a basketball article about Gonzaga is likely to be read as much if not more than a Nova article......even with the titles.
    There is an old axiom in business. You either grow or you die.

    What this boils down to is a question of whether there is still room for growth while being affiliated with the WCC or if it's time to expand the business plan before things become stagnant.

    The danger is biting off more than you can chew, i.e. risk/reward.

    The scenario before the Zag administration reminds me of the parable of the talents in the Bible. Matthew 25:14-30

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