Zags Still #1

[zagzilla]

Also BYU received 3 votes to tie for 45th in the poll.

ZZ

[zagzilla]

Ok maybe "lightyears" ahead is a bit strong, but I definitely think current Holmgren/Watson/Timme would beat 2015-16 Wiltjer/Sabonis/Karnowski.

Timme > Karno but not by light years. Karno was Abdul Jabbar finalist and winningest player in MBB history
Watson < Sabonis by light years. Domas dominated that season 3rd team AA, Jabbar finalist and was an eventual NBA All-Star
Chet ? Wiltjer incomplete. Kyle was 2nd team AA that year, CBS Sports preseason player of the year and Naismith semi-finalist

Chet might be all of that and more but he hasn't done it yet. However we know what Watson is and with respect, he isn't a Sabonis.

ZZ

[bdmiller7]

Ok maybe "lightyears" ahead is a bit strong, but I definitely think current Holmgren/Watson/Timme would beat 2015-16 Wiltjer/Sabonis/Karnowski.

I think the biggest difference is Watson and Holmgren, while not their natural position, are still far more capable of playing the 3 than slow footed Wiltjer ever was.

[bigblahla]

I think the biggest difference is Watson and Holmgren, while not their natural position, are still far more capable of playing the 3 than slow footed Wiltjer ever was.

Slow footed... okay you take Mallon his last season... I'll take KW... one length of the court... it won't be close...

Go!! Zags!!!

[TheOtherGreatOne]

I am just so intrigued by the idea of starting the 3 bigs. A Holmgren/Watson/Timme lineup at the 3/4/5 would be light-years ahead of the last time we clamored for a 3-headed beast in Wiltjer/Sabonis/Karnowski. I hope we see this in some games early!

You mean you would rather see Watson starting over Strawther ? Not me. Strother has a chance to be a star, I don't believe Watson has that in him. Watson is a descent inside back up, but he just doesn't appear to me ,unless he has improved by leaps and bounds, has no where near the talent or skills that Strawther does. If you are going to compete on a national level like we have for the last several years, you need to have your best players on the floor. The loyalty to older players is ok if you if you are not trying to compete with the big boys, but we are competing with the big boys, so best players on the court please.

[sittingon50]

Slow footed... okay you take Mallon his last season... I'll take KW... one length of the court... it won't be close...

Go!! Zags!!!

And you don't have to be Allyson Felix when you can drop 26' bombs on some guys mug all night either.

[bdmiller7]

Slow footed... okay you take Mallon his last season... I'll take KW... one length of the court... it won't be close...

Go!! Zags!!!

I don’t know if we have time for that.

[GoZags]

Timme > Karno but not by light years. Karno was Abdul Jabbar finalist and winningest player in MBB history
Watson < Sabonis by light years. Domas dominated that season 3rd team AA, Jabbar finalist and was an eventual NBA All-Star
Chet ? Wiltjer incomplete. Kyle was 2nd team AA that year, CBS Sports preseason player of the year and Naismith semi-finalist

Chet might be all of that and more but he hasn't done it yet. However we know what Watson is and with respect, he isn't a Sabonis.

ZZ

Point of order … not only was Shem an Abdul Jabbar finalist … he was the Abdul Jabbar Award winner.

[scrooner]

Point of order … not only was Shem an Abdul Jabbar finalist … he was the Abdul Jabbar Award winner.

Point of order....not in the 2015-16 season, which is the Karnowski we're discussing ("I definitely think current Holmgren/Watson/Timme would beat 2015-16 Wiltjer/Sabonis/Karnowski."). In 2015-16 Karnowski only played 5 games, averaged 10 and 5, and then his season ended due to a bulging disc in his back.

If these two teams met in the tournament, you're having Holmgren/Timme/(Watson/Strawther/Gregg/Sallis/Perry) match up against Wiltjer/Sabonis/Dranginis, and Wiltjer/Sabonis/Dranginis have to play 36-38 minutes apiece. I think that's a tall order.

[GoZags]

Point of order....not in the 2015-16 season, which is the Karnowski we're discussing ("I definitely think current Holmgren/Watson/Timme would beat 2015-16 Wiltjer/Sabonis/Karnowski."). In 2015-16 Karnowski only played 5 games, averaged 10 and 5, and then his season ended due to a bulging disc in his back.

If these two teams met in the tournament, you're having Holmgren/Timme/(Watson/Strawther/Gregg/Sallis/Perry) match up against Wiltjer/Sabonis/Dranginis, and Wiltjer/Sabonis/Dranginis have to play 36-38 minutes apiece. I think that's a tall order.

My bad. But in a similar vein in ‘15/‘16 Shem was not the winningest player in the history of D1 hoops.

[Markburn1]

And you don't have to be Allyson Felix when you can drop 26' bombs on some guys mug all night either.

Point taken. But, that's incomplete.

I was at a game in Mordor/Moraga when Bennet had whoever Wiltjer was guarding set the pick at the top so Kyle had to switch onto the ball handler. It was embarrassing. Every time down the court. And I mean EVERY time. Zip...right past Kyle exposing his slow feet. It affected his offensive game as well. St. Mary's won because of it.

Kyle was a deadeye shooter and he was a big reason Gonzaga won often during his tenure. But, it's okay to be objective about areas of weakness in a player.

[mgadfly]

I think people underestimated just how good Watson is defensively. Certainly, between the six bigs listed in 2021 and 2016, he is the only one capable of defending at the three (Chet may get there too). I think he is the only Zag to average above 3% steal rate and 3% block rate in a season. Something Clark, Williams, Tillie, Hart, Harris never did. He doesn't rebound well enough, he doesn't space the floor like a good shooter does, but he is super efficient on offense and doesn't demand shots that would be better taken by someone else.

That said, I'm hoping the three position is mostly a mix of Strawther and Sallis. I'm optimistic Strawther takes a huge leap forward with more time and shows that he can hit the three pointer at a rate greater than 30% and pass the ball to the open man when given the opportunity. Three bigs doesn't work with all the ball handling and passing required in both our primary and secondary fast breaks.

PG: Nembhard
SG: Try outs ongoing (lots of good options)
SF: Strawther
PF: Chet
C: Timme

bG: Whoever doesn't win the starting SG job
bF: Sallis (even if he is the starting SG, he is long enough that he can move to the 3 during rotations
bP: Watson

The young posts will be fantastic down the road, but right now Watson's defense compliments the offensive skills of either Timme or Chet. Watson can guard a bigger big or a pick and pop screen setter. He just fits what we need as the backup big right now because we already have scorers all over the roster.

[zagamatic]

I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Watson and Gregg end up getting about equal minutes over the season. But, I would be surprised if Watson has the offense to keep Gregg on the bench.

[sittingon50]

Point taken. But, that's incomplete.

I was at a game in Mordor/Moraga when Bennet had whoever Wiltjer was guarding set the pick at the top so Kyle had to switch onto the ball handler. It was embarrassing. Every time down the court. And I mean EVERY time. Zip...right past Kyle exposing his slow feet. It affected his offensive game as well. St. Mary's won because of it.

Kyle was a deadeye shooter and he was a big reason Gonzaga won often during his tenure. But, it's okay to be objective about areas of weakness in a player.

Fair enough Mark. Thanks.