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Thread: WCC Replacement Candidates:

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 116 View Post
    BYU's departure could stir up a mess: from Theo Lawson and the Sunday Spokesman-Review:

    Here: https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...-future-for-g/
    Sounds like Farnham owns stock, too. Lawson sets him straight on Costco U.

    “Bringing GCU into the fold would also come with a fair amount of pushback. Although GCU claims it’s made the conversion to a nonprofit organization, the U.S. Department of Education has been reluctant to recognize it as such, causing the school to file a lawsuit earlier this year. Others making an argument as to why GCU doesn’t align with the WCC may point to GCU’s total enrollment (115,000) and on-campus enrollment (25,000).”

  2. #102
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    Here is Krem 2 sports anchor's opinion on who the WCC should add and why.

    Link: https://www.krem.com/article/sports/...e-bf6767784ef9

    Biggest difference from teams mentioned above is she adds New Mexico State whose football team is already an independent.

    ZagDad

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    Here is Krem 2 sports anchor's opinion on who the WCC should add and why.

    Link: https://www.krem.com/article/sports/...e-bf6767784ef9

    Biggest difference from teams mentioned above is she adds New Mexico State whose football team is already an independent.

    ZagDad
    Might give NMSU the rationale for completely dropping football. I can't imagine it's operating in the black.

    Since we fly charter, they could fly direct to and from Spokane.

    IMO, NMSU would be in the fight for 3rd or 4th in the WCC.

    If you're ever down that way, I heartily recommend dining at La Posta, in Old Mesilla. It's an area that Billy the Kid liked to frequent.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    “Quality” school? Grand Canyon University's ranking in the 2021 edition of Best Colleges is National Universities, #298 of #389. Average 6-year graduation rate (17.6%). 6-year graduation rate of students who received a Pell Grant (2.5%). Adding GCU would be a catastrophic blow to the WCC’s academic standing.
    Dupe

  5. #105
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    Can someone explain to me why we have to add a team to the WCC?
    Krozman
    GU student 1996-2000
    Law Student 2000-2003

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by krozman View Post
    Can someone explain to me why we have to add a team to the WCC?
    We don’t

    "To be continued ....."
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  7. #107
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    Smile BYU 2.0

    Seems to this fan that Grand Canyon is the logical choice for WCC admission. Would love to see some kind of B-ball hybrid conference with the Mountain West (as I mention elsewhere) to include San Diego State, New Mexico, and the Nevada schools -- but, barring that, add the Phoenix market with GCU.

    They've a Christian mission, great fan base, and nice facilities. Were they added, this fan thinks Grand Canyon has the most potential to emerge in the WCC as another national power. Were they to make the Big Dance frequently, the GU-GCU tussles every year would garner the national attention our SMC and BYU games garner.

    Can't see the future, but I do like GCU's potential. Potentially, they are BYU Heavy.*



    :]


    *As opposed to BYU Lite.
    Yeah, we're "The Champs," uh-huh!

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddwell View Post
    Seems to this fan that Grand Canyon is the logical choice for WCC admission. Would love to see some kind of B-ball hybrid conference with the Mountain West (as I mention elsewhere) to include San Diego State, New Mexico, and the Nevada schools -- but, barring that, add the Phoenix market with GCU.

    They've a Christian mission, great fan base, and nice facilities. Were they added, this fan thinks Grand Canyon has the most potential to emerge in the WCC as another national power. Were they to make the Big Dance frequently, the GU-GCU tussles every year would garner the national attention our SMC and BYU games garner.

    Can't see the future, but I do like GCU's potential. Potentially, they are BYU Heavy.*



    :]


    *As opposed to BYU Lite.
    They are not. They are not in BYU’s universe. They are a diploma mill; they have no history; they lack any academic history and rigor, and even in Phoenix media they are nothing. They bring less than Pacific brought.

  9. #109
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    Why does the WCC "have to" add anybody to the conference?

    Of course, they do not have to. If we are only talking men's basketball, the loss of BYU significantly hurts the RPI of the WCC conference which would place even more pressure on the Zag Mbb to schedule up during their non-conference schedule. The loss of BYU means lots fewer Mormon TV viewers which will likely put a significant dent in any TV package the WCC can negotiate. Without BYU, the WCC will, in most years, be Gonzaga and the 8 who's (meaning no disrespect to the other Mbb WCC teams)?

    If the WCC does decide to add somebody, who should it be? Preferably somebody who would increase the conference's RPI (or at least not diminish it further), a significant TV market, somebody with decent facilities (no more HS gyms), a new recruiting area for the conference, etc. GCU, checks most of the boxes except increasing the RPI, but it is a team on the rise. GCU is a larger university than all of the WCC schools (so was BYU), can spend lots of money on its sports programs (just like BYU), has large, top notch facilities (just like BYU), but is private and Christian like the other WCC schools (including BYU). Really the only negatives are their questionable profit status and their academic standing. Denver brings a new market to the WCC, has similar values as the other WCC schools, but does not help the RPI issue and TV viewership potential is not great. New Mexico State has great facilities, certainly would not hurt the WCC RPI significantly, has been a frequent participant in the NCAA but TV viewership potential is limited, recruiting potential in New Mexico is not what it is in Arizona and a large State University would definitely be the outlier in the WCC.

    What the WCC does not want to do, is to add a team simply to replace BYU, that does not provide significant benefit (or potential benefit) to the WCC (i.e. Seattle U.).

    I think the path has been chosen for the money driven sports (football and Mbb) and it looks like a lot fewer, but larger, "super" conferences are they way of the future. Since the Big East does not sponsor football, their choice of schools to join the conference will be somewhat limited. To expand, the Big East will be forced to add teams, and I think they will add a Western Division. When the Big East forms a Western Division Gonzaga will jump. The sooner the Big East looks to expand, the more teams that may available to join the conference. Maybe it will happen in a year or two, maybe 5-10 years and maybe never, but I think the Big East will expand and will expand West.

    In the meantime, to keep the current revenue stream going, IMO, I think the WCC needs to do something and not stand pat or they will simply be waiting until Gonzaga gets a better offer and leaves. I personally think that academics will have little to do with the decision of the WCC. I think the WCC will vote to add GCU and if GCU does not work, consider New Mexico State. But what do I know?

    Just my thoughts,

    ZagDad

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    Here is Krem 2 sports anchor's opinion on who the WCC should add and why.

    Link: https://www.krem.com/article/sports/...e-bf6767784ef9

    Biggest difference from teams mentioned above is she adds New Mexico State whose football team is already an independent.

    ZagDad

    First, why would any MWC team join the AAC, the AAC just got decimated? The Big 12 didn't take their worst 3 programs, they took their best. And then she brings up GCU (a diploma mill) and NMSU as good adds? I won't speak to GCU, but NMSU would be a bottom feeder in the MWC and they are rather a long way from other WCC schools. Just because they have made it to MM doesn't mean they have a strong program.
    Last edited by AztecDen; 09-12-2021 at 08:31 PM.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    Why does the WCC "have to" add anybody to the conference?

    Of course, they do not have to. If we are only talking men's basketball, the loss of BYU significantly hurts the RPI of the WCC conference which would place even more pressure on the Zag Mbb to schedule up during their non-conference schedule. The loss of BYU means lots fewer Mormon TV viewers which will likely put a significant dent in any TV package the WCC can negotiate. Without BYU, the WCC will, in most years, be Gonzaga and the 8 who's (meaning no disrespect to the other Mbb WCC teams)?

    If the WCC does decide to add somebody, who should it be? Preferably somebody who would increase the conference's RPI (or at least not diminish it further), a significant TV market, somebody with decent facilities (no more HS gyms), a new recruiting area for the conference, etc. GCU, checks most of the boxes except increasing the RPI, but it is a team on the rise. GCU is a larger university than all of the WCC schools (so was BYU), can spend lots of money on its sports programs (just like BYU), has large, top notch facilities (just like BYU), but is private and Christian like the other WCC schools (including BYU). Really the only negatives are their questionable profit status and their academic standing. Denver brings a new market to the WCC, has similar values as the other WCC schools, but does not help the RPI issue and TV viewership potential is not great. New Mexico State has great facilities, certainly would not hurt the WCC RPI significantly, has been a frequent participant in the NCAA but TV viewership potential is limited, recruiting potential in New Mexico is not what it is in Arizona and a large State University would definitely be the outlier in the WCC.

    What the WCC does not want to do, is to add a team simply to replace BYU, that does not provide significant benefit (or potential benefit) to the WCC (i.e. Seattle U.).

    I think the path has been chosen for the money driven sports (football and Mbb) and it looks like a lot fewer, but larger, "super" conferences are they way of the future. Since the Big East does not sponsor football, their choice of schools to join the conference will be somewhat limited. To expand, the Big East will be forced to add teams, and I think they will add a Western Division. When the Big East forms a Western Division Gonzaga will jump. The sooner the Big East looks to expand, the more teams that may available to join the conference. Maybe it will happen in a year or two, maybe 5-10 years and maybe never, but I think the Big East will expand and will expand West.

    In the meantime, to keep the current revenue stream going, IMO, I think the WCC needs to do something and not stand pat or they will simply be waiting until Gonzaga gets a better offer and leaves. I personally think that academics will have little to do with the decision of the WCC. I think the WCC will vote to add GCU and if GCU does not work, consider New Mexico State. But what do I know?

    Just my thoughts,

    ZagDad
    I completely get wanting to add another team, but as you point out - who could that possibly be? None of the teams that have been mentioned do anything to move eyeballs; we're talking about a bunch of rinky-dink no-name schools here. The WCC with Gonzaga & BYU were the apex of what the WCC could ever hope to be, and now it is regressing. No amount of mid-major poaching is going to staunch the bleeding. The Gonzaga admin seriously need to look at this and approach from a numbers perspective. The tv contract signed in 2019 expires at the end of the '26-'27 season. You can almost guarantee losing a program of BYU's stature and audience is going to significantly impact that contract. There is no program available whose combined market and product (aka team) that could plug the gaping hole that will exist. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the contract had some clause regarding conference re-alignment baked into it that could cause a negative effect sooner.

    On the flipside of the money issue is the Big East. Their deal with Fox Sports expires after the end of the '24-'25 season. I could completely see a scenario here were the Zags were invited in order to boost the $ offered by the Fox Sports or another bidder. A premier program whose home games would provide a late evening game on weeknights and help fill out daytime weekend games that aren't covered by PAC-12 matchups? Gotta think that is good to have. Additionally the Zags would benefit from a larger tournament share altogether as you can count on at least 4-5 teams a year making the tourney. In turn each other school would benefit from the Zags continuing to provide win shares.

    Any additional travel expenses incurred for basketball and the other sports could be offset by the new revenue from a bigger TV contract through the Big East.

  12. #112
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    Invite Saint Louis University. It's west of the Mississippi and only a 4 hr flight from LA. Other than that, drop a school like pacific and don't add anyone.

    Schools like GU, LMU, Pepperdine, USD, UP, basically all of the current WCC universities should not want to be mentioned in the same sentence as GCU for reasons already mentioned.

  13. #113
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    If the WCC adds a school I think it will be Seattle. None of the schools mentioned would be in the top half of the WCC anyway (GCU would have been 7th last year according to Ken Pom) so nobody is making a dent in basketball. If the WCC goes to 9 schools I bet we will be back to a true round robin so we’ll play everybody twice and have 16 conference games anyway. What Seattle has going is it fits with the rest of the conference culturally. It does have some good sports teams (men’s and women’s soccer). I think getting back to playing in Key Arena and moving to the WCC might actually help there recruiting, as compared to the WAC. Seattle actually competes in all the sports the WCC sponsors too. I’m not saying i like it, but I think they are the most likely to get an invite. One positive would be a chance to have an additional game in Seattle at KeyArena each year. Between that and Portland it’s like 2 additional home games a year.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdmiller7 View Post
    If the WCC adds a school I think it will be Seattle. None of the schools mentioned would be in the top half of the WCC anyway (GCU would have been 7th last year according to Ken Pom) so nobody is making a dent in basketball. If the WCC goes to 9 schools I bet we will be back to a true round robin so we’ll play everybody twice and have 16 conference games anyway. What Seattle has going is it fits with the rest of the conference culturally. It does have some good sports teams (men’s and women’s soccer). I think getting back to playing in Key Arena and moving to the WCC might actually help there recruiting, as compared to the WAC. Seattle actually competes in all the sports the WCC sponsors too. I’m not saying i like it, but I think they are the most likely to get an invite. One positive would be a chance to have an additional game in Seattle at KeyArena each year. Between that and Portland it’s like 2 additional home games a year.
    I could not agree more as there is no NBA team there....at this time........ and the Huskies are having trouble....it is a major media market....plus it would reduce the unit travel and lodging costs per game for the dozens of WCC teams that travel to the Northwest.....for thee games as opposed to two....

  15. #115
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    To be honest, I think y'all have exhausted your conference. You were fortunate to add BYU but they were always looking to leave - that has been their nature for decades. Yeah, you can backfill with a team but nothing close to what BYU gave you. At least BYU gave your conference a bit of respect outside of your program. From what I understand, you have tried to get others in your conference to invest more into their BB programs. From that, maybe Pepperdine has made some progress. You have the best BB program in the west, you don't need to be adding to a conference that only has value because of your success. You elevate your conference. The rest of the WCC teams are an anchor.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by AztecDen View Post
    To be honest, I think y'all have exhausted your conference. You were fortunate to add BYU but they were always looking to leave - that has been their nature for decades. Yeah, you can backfill with a team but nothing close to what BYU gave you. At least BYU gave your conference a bit of respect outside of your program. From what I understand, you have tried to get others in your conference to invest more into their BB programs. From that, maybe Pepperdine has made some progress. You have the best BB program in the west, you don't need to be adding to a conference that only has value because of your success. You elevate your conference. The rest of the WCC teams are an anchor.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by AztecDen View Post
    To be honest, I think y'all have exhausted your conference. You were fortunate to add BYU but they were always looking to leave - that has been their nature for decades. Yeah, you can backfill with a team but nothing close to what BYU gave you. At least BYU gave your conference a bit of respect outside of your program. From what I understand, you have tried to get others in your conference to invest more into their BB programs. From that, maybe Pepperdine has made some progress. You have the best BB program in the west, you don't need to be adding to a conference that only has value because of your success. You elevate your conference. The rest of the WCC teams are an anchor.
    Bingo.
    America's Team!

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by AztecDen View Post
    To be honest, I think y'all have exhausted your conference. You were fortunate to add BYU but they were always looking to leave - that has been their nature for decades. Yeah, you can backfill with a team but nothing close to what BYU gave you. At least BYU gave your conference a bit of respect outside of your program. From what I understand, you have tried to get others in your conference to invest more into their BB programs. From that, maybe Pepperdine has made some progress. You have the best BB program in the west, you don't need to be adding to a conference that only has value because of your success. You elevate your conference. The rest of the WCC teams are an anchor.
    Agree 100% if we're solely talking about basketball. The WCC has competitive programs in other sports.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by AztecDen View Post
    To be honest, I think y'all have exhausted your conference. You were fortunate to add BYU but they were always looking to leave - that has been their nature for decades. Yeah, you can backfill with a team but nothing close to what BYU gave you. At least BYU gave your conference a bit of respect outside of your program. From what I understand, you have tried to get others in your conference to invest more into their BB programs. From that, maybe Pepperdine has made some progress. You have the best BB program in the west, you don't need to be adding to a conference that only has value because of your success. You elevate your conference. The rest of the WCC teams are an anchor.
    Very preceptive post...agree; however, there are many on here that think just adding another team well below GU's level will be fine and the WCC will just continue on as usual...

    Don't know how or when but GU needs to move to a conference that adds the possibility of improved competition...unfortunately, P-5 conferences are out of the question due to location and more than likely the BE is as well...leaving only the MWC...time will tell whether we just stand pat or move...

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    Conference affiliations means a lot with respect to athletics. I think it means next to nothing academically. Why do we keep bringing up academics when speaking about prospective additions?

    Maybe I’m naive in this one, so I’d be happy to learn if I’m mistaken. Unlike some of the research institutions in the Big 10, which have agreements in place for the sharing of resources, I don’t that exists within the WCC.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsObserver View Post
    Conference affiliations means a lot with respect to athletics. I think it means next to nothing academically. Why do we keep bringing up academics when speaking about prospective additions?

    Maybe I’m naive in this one, so I’d be happy to learn if I’m mistaken. Unlike some of the research institutions in the Big 10, which have agreements in place for the sharing of resources, I don’t that exists within the WCC.

    “. ..known by the company you keep.” It couldn’t be any more important.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    “. ..known by the company you keep.” It couldn’t be any more important.
    Bingo.

    https://www.gonzaga.edu/about/our-mi...sion-statement

    "To be continued ....."
    Father Tony Lehman, SJ

    NCAA TOURNAMENT wins since 2015
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  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by 229SintoZag View Post
    They are not. They are not in BYU’s universe. They are a diploma mill; they have no history; they lack any academic history and rigor, and even in Phoenix media they are nothing. They bring less than Pacific brought.
    This is 100% wrong. Check out a GCU game And then go to a pacific game. Not verse Gonzaga. GCU has a fanbase and atmosphere at games that rivals Gonzaga. Drew is building that program and they were neck tight in their opening round game verse Iowa late into the second half

    Cbu is on their same trajectory just a few years behind. Both would be better than half the current wcc members.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagsfanforlife View Post
    This is 100% wrong. Check out a GCU game And then go to a pacific game. Not verse Gonzaga. GCU has a fanbase and atmosphere at games that rivals Gonzaga. Drew is building that program and they were neck tight in their opening round game verse Iowa late into the second half

    Cbu is on their same trajectory just a few years behind. Both would be better than half the current wcc members.
    You assume that these programs are only going to up. Given the track record of the standard mid-major, I would say that is a mistake. Gonzaga cannot rely on the POTENTIAL of new members to guide its own future. These schools could easily backslide and the odds are certainly in favor of that happening. Just look how difficult it has been for any other existing school in the WCC; why would GCU be any different?

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    Quote Originally Posted by strikenowhere View Post
    You assume that these programs are only going to up. Given the track record of the standard mid-major, I would say that is a mistake. Gonzaga cannot rely on the POTENTIAL of new members to guide its own future. These schools could easily backslide and the odds are certainly in favor of that happening. Just look how difficult it has been for any other existing school in the WCC; why would GCU be any different?
    GCU has the fanbase, commitment from the institution, its stakeholders, and has a TON of money being poured into that program. Their financial commitment is 10x that of Pacific and they average about 3-5k more fans per game than any other institution outside of SMC/BYU and GU.

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