Give me your theory of Rock n Roll and I'll start with mine.

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  • MickMick
    Zag for Life
    • Apr 2007
    • 6541

    Give me your theory of Rock n Roll and I'll start with mine.

    I grew up in the 60s. I'll tell you exactly why Rock cannot make a proper comeback. Culture. Numbers. Simple Statistics. When I was a kid, many neighborhoods had their own garage band. It doesn't matter if they were necessarily good or not because If the culture embraces thousands of neighborhood garage bands across the nation, think of the vast talent pool for the cream to inevitably rise to the top. Rock stars were the childhood heroes of the era. They have since been replaced by NFL players.

    Culture produces great talent at whatever endeavors that a given culture embraces at the time. When culture embraces hot rods and rock n roll, the school parking lot will be full of uniquely modified cars blaring rock music and that is what the "cool kids" of surburbia did. The resultant commercial reaction will be muscle cars rolling out of Detroit and thousands of professional rock bands searching for unique, stand apart sounds. Rock then reactively subdivides and diversifies into varying styles such as alternative, heavy metal, grunge, or punk.

    Rock bands cannot thrive today only because the business model does not have the cultural backing to make rock bands profitable. I believe this is cyclic. I believe that new genres of music periodically sweep the land and the associated culture produces great talent at creating the associated new sound. Perhaps rock will influence it. Perhaps not.

    When I was a teen, social interaction wasn't tapping on a phone. It was visiting your best friend, thumbing through his/her multiple stacks of record albums, setting aside two or three for request, lighting up a joint, and appreciating the sound. That was the suburban teen social interaction of the time. Appreciating music to the exclusion of interruption as rock was not primarily used as simple background aesthetics to enhance a "vibe". Rock, by its loud, intrusive nature was designed to capture and hold your attention. It isn't uncommon for tunes of that era to contain the lyric phrase "Turn it up". In other words, your full attention is required.

    Nope. Rock wasn't primarily used as a mood enhancer as that was the purpose of POP music. Rock music, in of itself, was a primary focus. A science to be studied, dissected, and discussed. Many people from that culture commonly regard "Sargent Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band" by "The Beatles" as the greatest rock album of the time because no other album was dissected, studied, or analyzed more up to that point. The influence (of studying rock as an art form to be listened to, not just danced to) from that band was heavy. Why else do you think that the era produced so many songs with multiple transitions or (songs within a song), many of which lasted much longer than the radio stations could endure? That is why many rock bands played two styles. A commercial (Pop) style of shortened songs intended as mood enhancers and tailored for radio acceptance as well as another style that could consist of single 20+ minute songs that encompassed the entire side of an album (these were the tunes intended for dissection and study). Then there were the blends that were the compromise of both styles (for example, the bands "Boston" or "Steely Dan" or specific albums such as "Abbey Road" by the original "Beatles") Sure there are people doing that with music today, but not nearly at the same cultural magnitude. I also believe that rock cannot make a proper comeback until modern bands can create those 20 minute songs with multiple transitions that can be similarly dissected and studied. Modern Rock bands are doing plenty with the Bon Jovi or Def Leopard influence but hardly anything with the Rush or Pink Floyd influence. Both styles are needed for rock to properly thrive.

    Rock didn't die. It was mostly gobbled up by Country. Country music was vastly different when I was a kid. When I listen to modern country, all I hear is rock n roll with a twangy Southern drawl. It is the unique country music vocals that separate modern country from old time rock n roll. That vocal style make it almost unlistenable for me but I do love the reminiscent rock feel of the guitar work. To me, some country music is barely salvageable only because of that guitar work.

    This is why that era of talent cannot be duplicated. Culture. Numbers. Simple statistics.
    Last edited by MickMick; 09-10-2021, 01:02 AM.
    I miss Mike Hart
  • sittingon50
    Zag for Life
    • Feb 2007
    • 15944

    #2
    Originally posted by MickMick View Post
    I grew up in the 60s.

    Rock didn't die. It was mostly gobbled up by Country. Country music was vastly different when I was a kid. When I listen to modern country, all I hear is rock n roll with a twangy Southern drawl. It is the unique country music vocals that separate modern country from old time rock n roll. That vocal style make it almost unlistenable for me but I do love the reminiscent rock feel of the guitar work. To me, some country music is barely salvageable only because of that guitar work.

    This.
    But we don't play nobody.

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    • bartruff1
      Zag for Life
      • Jan 2010
      • 9404

      #3
      " Two Chords and the Truth " was how Ken Burns described Country Music on the excellence PBS Series..... "Country Music is more than just about drug and alcohol abuse, domestic violence, suicide and the dog dying " and then went on to prove that it was indeed...all about drug and alcohol abuse, domestic violence, suicide and the dog dying......

      I do not know what % of music radio or live concerts are about Rock and Roll..... but it is substantial ....

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      • Jazzgirl_127
        Zag for Life
        • Mar 2007
        • 1391

        #4
        I don't know if it's a difference in era or more of a regional difference, but live bands for weddings and school dances were not a thing when I was growing up, at.all. My high school was very into its music department (and it's gotten substantially bigger in the last 20 years)...so kids I went to school with did have garage bands, where they played was anyone's guess. And in this instance, that may be more of a generational thing here because the venues that had hosted bands were closing and being turned into malls around the time I was born. I'm sure some areas were able to keep the venues and an audience for the amateur bands. But not our little suburb that had once had a large dance hall that hosted local bands as well as The Rolling Stones in one of their really early US shows, in my childhood we had a strip mall on the same site. I don't know if it can't be sustained, or people just didn't want to sustain it.

        I think some of the responsibility for what kids do falls on previous generations, looking around me, we have less bowling alleys, 1 roller skating rink (within an hour drive), and less movie theaters than I did growing up, add to that public transit in the suburbs is almost non existent... so it's hard to fault kids for texting their friends when all the people making decisions and who have money to start business ventures (or more often than not it's established businesses being bought out because someone wants the land they're on) have left them with so few fun places to go on their own.

        I love the song within a song style that was so common in that era, Springsteen, Jim Steinman songs for various artists, Queen. Billy Joel to a lesser extent (he also took a jab at the music industry wanting short songs in "The Entertainer"). I think that's also a really good distinction you drew between pop and rock, that one isn't about making you feel good. It's always fun when a song is pop enough that people merrily sing along with it, but rock enough that you can see the moment when they realize it's not a happy song.

        I think there's a lot of intersections between where one genre ends and another begins, and sometimes it's one of those streets that hit a dead end and then pick up again with the same name a block or two from the dead end. I'm not going to comment on today's country because I really don't listen to it, but CCR is the most obviously example to me of a rock group that still had a very country sound to it. And there were probably groups with a foot in both worlds before them as well as between them and the present state of country music. I think my litmus test for what is country and what is rock is who is singing about how they want to leave their hometown. If it's a male singer, it's rock...if it's a female singer, it's country. Maybe that's changed since I listened to country last...

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        • Markburn1
          Zag for Life
          • Oct 2015
          • 2419

          #5
          ,,,,
          Last edited by Markburn1; 09-11-2021, 06:53 AM.

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          • Markburn1
            Zag for Life
            • Oct 2015
            • 2419

            #6
            Blackberry Smoke...One Horse Town

            You won't know if you are listening to country or rock but it's so good you won't care.

            Garage bands replaced four dudes singing doo wop harmony and smoking cigarettes on the corner. Today's culture is all about rap and seeing how offensive you can be. Like it or not it will be around for awhile longer.

            But , Rock and Roll will never die. Neil said so.

            Here's proof.

            The Million Masks Of God out now: https://found.ee/MO_TMMOG THEMILLIONMASKSOFGOD.COM Directed by Ted Roach Produced by Lagan Sebert Stream or Buy The Black M...

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            • Jazzgirl_127
              Zag for Life
              • Mar 2007
              • 1391

              #7
              I'm watching an episode of "Explained" on Netflix about Country Music, so I thought I'd bump this old thread. The show does an interesting "family tree" of the evolution of country and other music styles and looks at the history as well as the present.

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              • seacatfan
                Zag for Life
                • Feb 2014
                • 11740

                #8
                The music industry has changed so drastically. One might argue that the concept of garage bands has been replaced by You Tubers posting songs on the internet. There are more of them than you can shake a stick at, and they make music in every genre. Including rock in its many different forms. It's mostly cover tunes rather than originals, but that's probably how most garage bands got started back in the day as well.

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                • kitzbuel
                  Moderator
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 16766

                  #9
                  Thanks to my youngest daughter, I am finding that the music being made now is every bit as inventive and the artists are as talented. There is some really good music being made. I do think that the internet has caused a substantial diversification of music distribution so radio no longer determines what is listened to. It is very difficult to get a dominant sound anymore. Grunge might well be the last widely adopted rock genre.
                  'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.'
                  - Gandalf the Grey

                  ________________________________



                  Foo Time

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                  • Martin Centre Mad Man
                    Administrator
                    • Apr 2009
                    • 8223

                    #10
                    Originally posted by kitzbuel View Post
                    Thanks to my youngest daughter, I am finding that the music being made now is every bit as inventive and the artists are as talented. There is some really good music being made. I do think that the internet has caused a substantial diversification of music distribution so radio no longer determines what is listened to. It is very difficult to get a dominant sound anymore. Grunge might well be the last widely adopted rock genre.
                    I would agree with that. My teenagers have never listened to radio, never watched a music television network (MTV/VH1), and have never purchased an album in any format. They find music through streaming services and YouTube. My oldest son enjoys a lot of Japanese artists that he never would have discovered by listening to traditional sources.

                    When we were growing up, new artists marketed themselves through word of mouth, touring, and distributing primitive demo tapes. The internet now allows artists to reach a wider audience more easily and at a lower cost.
                    “No team in the country has a better winning percentage against power conference teams since 2017 than Gonzaga... the Zags are playing above average teams in the best leagues in the country and winning 78% of the time.”

                    -Ken Pomeroy-

                    https://www.ksl.com/article/50342950...in-perspective

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                    • willandi
                      Zag for Life
                      • Nov 2007
                      • 10237

                      #11
                      I have found that as my tinnitus worsens, I tend to not listen to much music. When driving, I try to find a sports talk radio station, but listen to music if that's all I can get.
                      Most of the time, when it turns out to be country, I usually change the station. Much of country seems to have very little range of notes, and not many actual lyrics, the main topics having been listed above, the next one will be when his self driving truck leaves him.
                      I DO listen to some of the older groups, the Eagles being one, that had songs that actually told a story, several different versus, tied together with a chorus.
                      Sometimes I also listen to some stations that play newer music. Some is quite good, but it doesn't feel like it has the polish that the older 'touring' bands had.

                      Just my opinion.
                      Not even a smile? What's your problem!

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                      • RenoZag
                        Super Moderator
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 42446

                        #12
                        Under-appreciated thread. . .
                        The GUB Resource Library: Links to: Stats, Blogs, Brackets, & More. . .

                        “They go to school. They do their homework. They shake hands. They say please and thank you. But once you throw that ball up, they will rip your heart out and watch you bleed.” -- Jay Bilas

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                        • LongIslandZagFan
                          Moderator
                          • Feb 2007
                          • 13951

                          #13
                          I think music is partially an extension of he music you grew up with or on occasion a rejection of what you grew up with. Many kids today are growing up on hip-hop and pop music... every year that rock languishes on the sidelines the harder it is going to be for it to be relevant going forward. You will still have rock, but it will be a smaller subset of music like Jazz or folk music. It won't die, but it will likely never be the dominant music genre ever again.
                          "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

                          "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

                          Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

                          2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

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                          • former1dog
                            Zag for Life
                            • Feb 2007
                            • 10569

                            #14
                            Originally posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
                            I think music is partially an extension of he music you grew up with or on occasion a rejection of what you grew up with. Many kids today are growing up on hip-hop and pop music... every year that rock languishes on the sidelines the harder it is going to be for it to be relevant going forward. You will still have rock, but it will be a smaller subset of music like Jazz or folk music. It won't die, but it will likely never be the dominant music genre ever again.
                            Interesting observation, and I don't know if this is common or not, but my middle and youngest boys' music tastes are starting to resemble my wife and my music tastes. Closer to my wifes, truth be told, which is along the lines of the grunge era of rock.

                            My oldest is eclectic and more around modern folk. He's always interested in sharing the music he likes with me, though.

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