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Thread: ESPN top 25: 8/31/21

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    Default ESPN top 25: 8/31/21

    https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...nkings-2021-22

    Probably another one prior to season beginning. Zags remain no 1. Penny at Memphis is of course, is drawing notice.
    We have some youngsters on this team but with some luck, we can go undefeated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...nkings-2021-22

    Probably another one prior to season beginning. Zags remain no 1. Penny at Memphis is of course, is drawing notice.
    We have some youngsters on this team but with some luck, we can go undefeated.
    I'm not a big fan of undefeated. Acknowledge it or not, the pressure of remaining unbeaten, winning the NC, and accomplishing something no other team has been able to do since the tourney expanded from 32 to 64+ teams, is heavy. Also, a defeat can be a better learning opportunity than a win, so if that loss does not come in a single-elimination tournament at the end of the year, the team stands to come out stronger as a result. It can also bring them back down to earth, if necessary, and teach them humility. These guys are, after all, human beings first and are therefore subject to the same kinds of pressures, etc. as other human beings. I doubt others agree, but that's how I feel. I start felling a little anxious if we approach NCAA time of the year without a loss.

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    Agree. The dilemma is which game hurts the least to lose. Love their starting lineup:

    Nolan Hickman (No. 22 in ESPN 100)
    Andrew Nembhard (9.1 points per game)
    Hunter Sallis (No. 14 in ESPN 100)
    Chet Holmgren (No. 1 in ESPN 100)
    Drew Timme (19.0 PPG)

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZag View Post
    I'm not a big fan of undefeated. Acknowledge it or not, the pressure of remaining unbeaten, winning the NC, and accomplishing something no other team has been able to do since the tourney expanded from 32 to 64+ teams, is heavy. Also, a defeat can be a better learning opportunity than a win, so if that loss does not come in a single-elimination tournament at the end of the year, the team stands to come out stronger as a result. It can also bring them back down to earth, if necessary, and teach them humility. These guys are, after all, human beings first and are therefore subject to the same kinds of pressures, etc. as other human beings. I doubt others agree, but that's how I feel. I start felling a little anxious if we approach NCAA time of the year without a loss.
    I have never subscribed to the theory that negative reinforcement is better than positive reinforcement, not in raising my kids, not in coaching, not in leadership and not in life…..but too each his own
    Basketball...The Toy Department of Life

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Agree. The dilemma is which game hurts the least to lose. Love their starting lineup:

    Nolan Hickman (No. 22 in ESPN 100)
    Andrew Nembhard (9.1 points per game)
    Hunter Sallis (No. 14 in ESPN 100)
    Chet Holmgren (No. 1 in ESPN 100)
    Drew Timme (19.0 PPG)
    If the over under on this lineup starting together was set at 1 game I’d take the under.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZag View Post
    I'm not a big fan of undefeated. Acknowledge it or not, the pressure of remaining unbeaten, winning the NC, and accomplishing something no other team has been able to do since the tourney expanded from 32 to 64+ teams, is heavy. Also, a defeat can be a better learning opportunity than a win, so if that loss does not come in a single-elimination tournament at the end of the year, the team stands to come out stronger as a result. It can also bring them back down to earth, if necessary, and teach them humility. These guys are, after all, human beings first and are therefore subject to the same kinds of pressures, etc. as other human beings. I doubt others agree, but that's how I feel. I start felling a little anxious if we approach NCAA time of the year without a loss.
    I guess it's hard to say. I was at the Baylor game and as I was watching warmups I was still buzzing over the Suggs shot two days before. The biggest issue with the NC was the emotional turnaround and playing a team that would have beaten pretty much any NCAA team of the decade that night. Going undefeated felt like an awesome opportunity more than a heavy weight... IMO. Some teams maybe more impacted than others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZag View Post
    accomplishing something no other team has been able to do since the tourney expanded from 32 to 64+ teams, is heavy.
    I never put this together. That means, presumably, we already set a record for most consecutive wins in a single season last year? Or was it 2015 Kentucky because of our COVID-shortened season?
    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Go Zags!!!

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    Zags have redemption on their minds. Like Virginia in 2019.

    tough loses tend to focus the mind…..5 star recruits also help

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    I have never subscribed to the theory that negative reinforcement is better than positive reinforcement, not in raising my kids, not in coaching, not in leadership and not in life…..but too each his own
    Totally agree
    Bring back the OCC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    I have never subscribed to the theory that negative reinforcement is better than positive reinforcement, not in raising my kids, not in coaching, not in leadership and not in life…..but too each his own
    - i doubt you and texaszag really see life from 180 degree different perspectives of positive or negative reinforcement.
    - i bet your kids learned plenty from the school of hard knocks, and what is a good leader or coach but one who can lead and motivate after having been knocked down once.
    - i had a director tell our cast that 'real acting' began when someone flubbed a line and the actors would continue to 'act' such that the audience would never know a line was flubbed.

    - i think there is universal agreement, lets give our best effort, strive to win every game..........but if you do lose, learn from it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdmiller7 View Post

    starting lineup:

    Nolan Hickman (No. 22 in ESPN 100)
    Andrew Nembhard (9.1 points per game)
    Hunter Sallis (No. 14 in ESPN 100)
    Chet Holmgren (No. 1 in ESPN 100)
    Drew Timme (19.0 PPG)


    If the over under on this lineup starting together was set at 1 game I’d take the under.
    I don't think there will be a lot of action for the over and you'll have to give odds. Expect someone with more experience starting over Sallis; Bolton or Watson make more sense. Whoever works the hardest on defense and rebounding earns that slot IMO so Sallis should be in the mix.
    Ihre Papiere bitte

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    Quote Originally Posted by GonzaGAW View Post
    - i doubt you and texaszag really see life from 180 degree different perspectives of positive or negative reinforcement.
    - i bet your kids learned plenty from the school of hard knocks, and what is a good leader or coach but one who can lead and motivate after having been knocked down once.
    - i had a director tell our cast that 'real acting' began when someone flubbed a line and the actors would continue to 'act' such that the audience would never know a line was flubbed.

    - i think there is universal agreement, lets give our best effort, strive to win every game..........but if you do lose, learn from it.
    I agree. I don't use negative reinforcement intentionally in my parenting, but I've learned a lot from losing. And I expect my kid will too. It's been one of the greatest things about sports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Agree. The dilemma is which game hurts the least to lose. Love their starting lineup:

    Nolan Hickman (No. 22 in ESPN 100)
    Andrew Nembhard (9.1 points per game)
    Hunter Sallis (No. 14 in ESPN 100)
    Chet Holmgren (No. 1 in ESPN 100)
    Drew Timme (19.0 PPG)
    If we have to lose one game, and one game only, and I get to pick it, I guess I want it to be at SMC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    I have never subscribed to the theory that negative reinforcement is better than positive reinforcement, not in raising my kids, not in coaching, not in leadership and not in life…..but too each his own
    How on earth is this negative reinforcement? Negative reinforcement would be to punish the team for a loss. I don't believe I came anywhere near saying that. Gees!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Valley Zag View Post
    If we have to lose one game, and one game only, and I get to pick it, I guess I want it to be at SMC.
    Absolutely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZag View Post
    How on earth is this negative reinforcement? Negative reinforcement would be to punish the team for a loss. I don't believe I came anywhere near saying that. Gees!
    Nope. "Negative reinforcement in not a negative thing. It's about the removal of a negative thing"- From Your Dictionary

    An example of negative reinforcement would be that if a team accomplished a certain goal, the members would avoid a negative consequence; i.e. they wouldn't have to run suicides the next day after goal accomplished. Positive reinforcement would be giving them new sneakers for accomplishing the goal, for example. Positive and negative reinforcement are both designed as motivators to achieve the goal.

    Hoop is also wrong; losing a game is not what negative reinforcement is, as defined.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maynard g krebs View Post
    Nope. "Negative reinforcement in not a negative thing. It's about the removal of a negative thing"- From Your Dictionary

    An example of negative reinforcement would be that if a team accomplished a certain goal, the members would avoid a negative consequence; i.e. they wouldn't have to run suicides the next day after goal accomplished. Positive reinforcement would be giving them new sneakers for accomplishing the goal, for example. Positive and negative reinforcement are both designed as motivators to achieve the goal.

    Hoop is also wrong; losing a game is not what negative reinforcement is, as defined.
    People remember the 1976 Indiana that went undefeated. It’s talked about every year. When was the last time anyone talked about the 1975 or 1977 national champs. If I was a player I’d want the extra pressure and the extra prestige that went with it.

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    Smile Extra Motivation besides last season's Baylor beatdown?

    This fan would like to see the Zags go undefeated into the Big Dance again. This year, though, to keep the team hungry (in addition to last year's swoon v. Baylor), this fan would like to see the Zags start the season as #2 or #3. If that ranking could hold for a while, maybe it'd provoke that little extra nudge of motivation to see the Zags through to the very end.

    Thus, if the Zags played another doozy of a game in the Semi's, hopefully two things would prompt better preparedness for the next and Ultimate Game.
    Motivation #1 -- Chafe greatly over the Baylor beatdown.
    Motivation #2 -- Chafe over starting the season (and for a chunk of the season) as #2 or #3. (Gotta believe Baylor's #2 rank and all that attention on GU's chance to "make history" had to rub the Bears the wrong way no end.)

    This motivation scenario, please, over losing once before the Dance (especially, to loathsome Duke).




    :]
    Yeah, we're "The Champs," uh-huh!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdmiller7 View Post
    People remember the 1976 Indiana that went undefeated. It’s talked about every year. When was the last time anyone talked about the 1975 or 1977 national champs. If I was a player I’d want the extra pressure and the extra prestige that went with it.
    There are arguments on both sides of this issue but not sure the relevance if trying to compare to IU's 1976 team.

    The 1975 team lost in the Tournament due to an injury to Scott May, their key player -All American and 1st Round Pick. That team did lose and gained momentum from that loss, believing if Scott had not been hurt, they would have won the Natty.

    Interesting to note that the Top Six Players of that team returned and used the motivation from their 1975 loss to dominate in the 1976 season. That TEAM seemed to have "learned" from that loss and went on to go undefeated in 1976.

    The 2021-22 Gonzaga basketball team is not returning intact as we lost three starters so "learning" from that loss is not going to have the same emphasis if the entire team was returning. I do know that the taste of defeat to Baylor still remains in those that were in attendance and played in that game, which should provide motivation going into this season.

    I for one want us to win every game we play and make a statement. In 1976, IU had to win five games to win the Natty and now its six to seven games to win...and I want us to be spoken in the same breath as the Great UCLA Teams and IU...That would be a great legacy for GU and Coach Few...A "Hoosiers" type season...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinfoilzag View Post
    I don't think there will be a lot of action for the over and you'll have to give odds. Expect someone with more experience starting over Sallis; Bolton or Watson make more sense. Whoever works the hardest on defense and rebounding earns that slot IMO so Sallis should be in the mix.
    Strawther will likely start at the Kispert spot.
    I'm laughing. Why aren't you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdmiller7 View Post
    People remember the 1976 Indiana that went undefeated. It’s talked about every year. When was the last time anyone talked about the 1975 or 1977 national champs. If I was a player I’d want the extra pressure and the extra prestige that went with it.
    Me too
    Basketball...The Toy Department of Life

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    I don’t know why there’s a question. We should want to go undefeated. There’s really no advantage to losing one or two. We go the distance and strive to be historical. what’s wrong with that?? I see depression after losing a game or two. I don’t see happiness because some so called “pressure” is lifted .
    Last edited by MDABE80; 09-01-2021 at 08:42 PM.

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    I think people’s argument are that they’d rather lose one because it improves the odds, in their mind, of winning a championship due to less pressure. They’d rather have better odds of winning a natty than slightly worse odds of an undefeated natty. Not my argument but that’s how I understand it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Agree. The dilemma is which game hurts the least to lose. Love their starting lineup:

    Nolan Hickman (No. 22 in ESPN 100)
    Andrew Nembhard (9.1 points per game)
    Hunter Sallis (No. 14 in ESPN 100)
    Chet Holmgren (No. 1 in ESPN 100)
    Drew Timme (19.0 PPG)
    When I see this starting line-up I immediately think that star rankings should play a minor, not major role for selecting the 5 on the court. Three experienced players from last year is better than two, unless other factors are enormous. there is no power guard, unless you want Chet to be that. Wont we need, quite a bit of the time another hunk of beef? Strawther and Watson are experienced with the team and add Kaden Perry and Gregg and we have quality bigs for spelling Chet and Timme. I would like Chet to not feel that rebounding depends on him. That exposes him to injuries from other big men - sometimes i have thought that bigs from BYU and loyola were actually trying to be so physical there was a higher chance of injuries. There may be bigs out there among the teams we will play, who wouldn't mind the notoriety as the guy who took Chet out for a whole season. I am expecting Few to put Strawther or Anton in the starting lineup at least several of the first games.
    as an aside, i am eager to see how Tommy tries to bring Ballo along. I still can't decide whether he was over hyped, or just a big that needed time to develop like KO and Rui. Even Karno, as I recall, had a clumsy first few months as a zag.

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