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Thread: Credible Coverage Suggesting BYU getting another run at BIGXII

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    Should Gonzaga play in the Big Sky, the WAC or the Mountain West? A real long shot would be the Big 12, but all of those go away from the Zags home area and none are religious schools, so the Zags would also be leaving their roots.
    Again—this is not something that will ever happen. Gonzaga won’t do football.

    We may as well debate whether to join the AFC or the NFC.

    Because we have an equal shot of ever joining the NFL as any FBS football conference.

    Plus we have to keep the undefeated streak going.

    My guess is we will see smaller schools exiting football, and the pool of schools fielding teams growing smaller rather than the opposite in the brave new world of super conferences and NIL and the SEC getting a bit of an Icarus syndrome….

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    Quote Originally Posted by 229SintoZag View Post
    Again—this is not something that will ever happen. Gonzaga won’t do football.

    We may as well debate whether to join the AFC or the NFC.

    Because we have an equal shot of ever joining the NFL as any FBS football conference.

    Plus we have to keep the undefeated streak going.

    My guess is we will see smaller schools exiting football, and the pool of schools fielding teams growing smaller rather than the opposite in the brave new world of super conferences and NIL and the SEC getting a bit of an Icarus syndrome….
    ...and waiting for Nick Saban to move on to the next plane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagNut08 View Post
    The whole don’t let the door hit you is so narrow minded. WCC is trash, them leaving makes it worse, and is worse for GU.
    Couldn’t agree more.

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    So if they jump to the big 12 and it falls apart, which is quite likely, does BYU come groveling back to the WCC?
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

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    Somebody provide a basis for why BYU is not the third or fourth most accomplished program in the WCC, without doing an analytics deep dive? Looking at results as a metric of success is not narrow minded. Trying to build a rival out of analytics is delusional. BYU is the most entitled program as a ratio of its success. I won’t miss them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Go Zags!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 229SintoZag View Post
    Again—this is not something that will ever happen. Gonzaga won’t do football.

    We may as well debate whether to join the AFC or the NFC.

    Because we have an equal shot of ever joining the NFL as any FBS football conference.

    Plus we have to keep the undefeated streak going.

    My guess is we will see smaller schools exiting football, and the pool of schools fielding teams growing smaller rather than the opposite in the brave new world of super conferences and NIL and the SEC getting a bit of an Icarus syndrome….
    It was rhetorical...a move to 3 lesser conferences.
    I'm laughing. Why aren't you?

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    BYU makes WCC conference more valuable

    Its not personal ...its business

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    I will enjoy college basketball for the next couple of years, but I am fully prepared to eventually let it all go if the sport becomes too alien to me. The day that GU is rendered irrelevant by forces beyond it's control, is the the day that I leave college basketball fandom behind. I fully expect it to eventually happen so I will especially enjoy this next season.
    I miss Mike Hart

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    Quote Originally Posted by MickMick View Post
    I will enjoy college basketball for the next couple of years, but I am fully prepared to eventually let it all go if the sport becomes too alien to me. The day that GU is rendered irrelevant by forces beyond it's control, is the the day that I leave college basketball fandom behind. I fully expect it to eventually happen so I will especially enjoy this next season.
    With more and more money being thrown into college sports, they will no longer be able to keep the sport as it was...BBall especially as the P-5/P-4 conferences will have THE ADVANTAGE to sign the best players available (not going to the G-League or Austrailia), because of all their booster connections...yes, I hate to agree with you but the future doesn't look as good as it did six months ago...imo

    I will hate this transition and hope that GU will be able to win the Natty this year as it will become increasingly more difficult as the years move forward...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogozags View Post
    With more and more money being thrown into college sports, they will no longer be able to keep the sport as it was...BBall especially as the P-5/P-4 conferences will have THE ADVANTAGE to sign the best players available (not going to the G-League or Austrailia), because of all their booster connections...yes, I hate to agree with you but the future doesn't look as good as it did six months ago...imo

    I will hate this transition and hope that GU will be able to win the Natty this year as it will become increasingly more difficult as the years move forward...
    You guys are wrong. Basketball requires 5 players on the floor and a roster of what, 12?

    The big schools can only put five guys on the floor too. And basketball success has never relied on conference affiliation to the extent football does for a successful season. The NCAA tournament is the great equalizer and it isn’t going anywhere.

    I see schools like Gonzaga, Xavier, Nova, Creighton, Marquette continuing to have success whatever the SEC schools do.

    The rumors of the forthcoming decline of Gonzaga basketball are now, as they have been for over two decades, greatly exaggerated. This programs best years are still ahead of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 229SintoZag View Post
    The rumors of the forthcoming decline of Gonzaga basketball are now, as they have been for over two decades, greatly exaggerated. This programs best years are still ahead of it.
    Bingo.

    And as for football coming back to Gonzaga University ... not going to happen. And that is definitive. If it ever were to happen it would have been a few years ago when "big money" broached the topic of funding football. "No thank you" was the nearly unanimous response.

    “To be continued …”. Fr Tony Lehman, SJ
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    Some cherry picked stats

    Most NCAA TOURNAMENT wins since 2015
    Gonzaga 20, Nova 17, UNC 16, Duke 15, Kentucky 13, Michigan 13, Virginia 11, Baylor 9
    -----
    Most FINAL FOUR wins since 2017
    UNC 2, Nova 2, Virginia 2, Baylor 2, Gonzaga 2, Michigan 1, TexasTech 1, Kentucky 0, Duke 0, Kansas 0

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    Quote Originally Posted by 229SintoZag View Post
    You guys are wrong. Basketball requires 5 players on the floor and a roster of what, 12?

    The big schools can only put five guys on the floor too. And basketball success has never relied on conference affiliation to the extent football does for a successful season. The NCAA tournament is the great equalizer and it isn’t going anywhere.

    I see schools like Gonzaga, Xavier, Nova, Creighton, Marquette continuing to have success whatever the SEC schools do.

    The rumors of the forthcoming decline of Gonzaga basketball are now, as they have been for over two decades, greatly exaggerated. This programs best years are still ahead of it.
    Agreed...I'm not worried about Power 5 schools inundating college basketball with NIL money. They will always be second fiddle to the football programs, and the pot of money is not infinite.

    I'll be interested to see how our players fare in this brave new world of NIL.

    Sinto, did you see the message I sent you a while back?

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    I would like to make another point that I think is worth considering.

    The thesis of some here is that huge conference football expansion, money, etc is going to portend the end for college basketball and in particular for non-football schools like Gonzaga.

    If there is a link between big conference football success and college basketball success, it is a link that has not manifested itself yet. In fact, a review of the record shows that there is, by and large, an inverse relation between success in football and basketball in the power conferences over the past decades.

    The true blue blood power conference basketball schools have either had no success or at best checkered, episodic and moderate success in football: UCLA, Indiana, Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, Carolina, Michigan State, UConn, And even “blueblood-light” schools like Louisville and Syracuse. Not exactly football powers, and at best a UCLA or a Carolina may have a good year and play in a major bowl game once or twice a decade—but no chance to play for the title.

    Meanwhile, the biggest names in football have been likewise at best episodic and marginally relevant in March in basketball: LSU, Alabama, Oklahoma, Auburn, Georgia, Nebraska until recently.

    A couple notable obvious exceptions are Florida (especially 10-15 years ago) Florida State, Ohio State and to a lesser extent Michigan (whose relevance in football, like Nebraska’s, is more of a legacy than a present reality). I also should add Oregon since they have played both in the Final Four and in the football national title game in the past decade but I get sick to my stomach including them. I can’t stand Oregon.

    The larger point stands. Duke, Carolina, Indiana, UCLA, Arizona and Michigan State didn’t need football to be elite in basketball.

    And neither does GU.

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    I think what we will see over the next two decades is a continued divergence of amateur athletics from university and college settings. As painful as that may be, it's already happened significantly at the high school level. Collegiately, there is just too many overarching factors that make the current setup unsustainable. The pandemic has simply exposed what was already a broken model. There is simply no way to make Alabama football and Wisconsin-Whitewater Tennis compete under the same governing body with any semblance of reasonable consistency. For as much criticism as the NCAA leadership gets (and they often deserve it), the task being asked of the NCAA is a fool's errand.

    My predictions?

    Football will become increasingly regionalized and compartmentalized as a sport. There will be a commissioner and perhaps a new division of 24-36 programs. Maybe even promotion and relegation or something along those lines. Many smaller programs will be shuttered and much of the game will eventually transition to something more closely resembling 7-on-7 in many parts of the country. Cheaper, less injury and health risks, and just as entertaining as a television product. This wont' be universally true and it will start at the lower levels, but I really do think it will happen eventually in all non-SEC regions of the country.

    Basketball, to Sinto's point, will continue on relatively unimpeded in the short term. Colleges will maintain basketball programs in part because they are less expensive and cumbersome and more Title-IX friendly and because March Madness is such a draw. Gonzaga's leadership has long recognized that standing still is never an option and will be nimble and proactive enough to move a year or two before they need to. The conference model will eventually be overhauled dramatically, but Gonzaga will be just fine.

    More on topic, the years of Gonzaga relying on the WCC to promote its brand are history. Two national championship appearances in the last 4 tournaments, numerous 1 seeds, top ranked recruiting classes. Guys becoming NBA stars (Sabonis and soon Suggs and Holmgreen). I like having BYU in the WCC because it's two more good games per season. But I really don't think the Zags are as dependent on the conference being strong as they were even five years ago. The brand stands on its own.

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    Gonzaga would be just fine if BYU leaves but there is some sentiment for taking Gonzaga as a basketball only to the Big 12. This BYU fan has enjoyed being part of the WCC.

    Most BYU fans would love to continue playing Gonzaga, even though Gonzaga is superior right now. We're not holding our breath, as big things were promised in 2016 but Texas and Oklahoma vetoed BYU entering the Big 12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchaeaBYU View Post
    Gonzaga would be just fine if BYU leaves but there is some sentiment for taking Gonzaga as a basketball only to the Big 12. This BYU fan has enjoyed being part of the WCC.

    Most BYU fans would love to continue playing Gonzaga, even though Gonzaga is superior right now. We're not holding our breath, as big things were promised in 2016 but Texas and Oklahoma vetoed BYU entering the Big 12.
    It would have to include ALL the other sports as well, men's and women's. It couldn't be just basketball.
    I suppose that since the teams have to fly to other schools anyway, it wouldn't be that big a deal, but the WCC has some schools that excel in the other sports.
    I'm laughing. Why aren't you?

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    Football makes money overall, but not for all participants, and won’t for Gonzaga.

    Men’s and women’s basketball are the only other profitable college sports. They have, and will make money for Gonzaga.

    All other sports lose money, so they have to have other value to be worthwhile for any school. They are not intrinsically necessary for college life.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagfan24 View Post
    I think what we will see over the next two decades is a continued divergence of amateur athletics from university and college settings. As painful as that may be, it's already happened significantly at the high school level. Collegiately, there is just too many overarching factors that make the current setup unsustainable. The pandemic has simply exposed what was already a broken model. There is simply no way to make Alabama football and Wisconsin-Whitewater Tennis compete under the same governing body with any semblance of reasonable consistency. For as much criticism as the NCAA leadership gets (and they often deserve it), the task being asked of the NCAA is a fool's errand.

    My predictions?

    Football will become increasingly regionalized and compartmentalized as a sport. There will be a commissioner and perhaps a new division of 24-36 programs. Maybe even promotion and relegation or something along those lines. Many smaller programs will be shuttered and much of the game will eventually transition to something more closely resembling 7-on-7 in many parts of the country. Cheaper, less injury and health risks, and just as entertaining as a television product. This wont' be universally true and it will start at the lower levels, but I really do think it will happen eventually in all non-SEC regions of the country.

    Basketball, to Sinto's point, will continue on relatively unimpeded in the short term. Colleges will maintain basketball programs in part because they are less expensive and cumbersome and more Title-IX friendly and because March Madness is such a draw. Gonzaga's leadership has long recognized that standing still is never an option and will be nimble and proactive enough to move a year or two before they need to. The conference model will eventually be overhauled dramatically, but Gonzaga will be just fine.

    More on topic, the years of Gonzaga relying on the WCC to promote its brand are history. Two national championship appearances in the last 4 tournaments, numerous 1 seeds, top ranked recruiting classes. Guys becoming NBA stars (Sabonis and soon Suggs and Holmgreen). I like having BYU in the WCC because it's two more good games per season. But I really don't think the Zags are as dependent on the conference being strong as they were even five years ago. The brand stands on its own.
    Best spitballin' I've seen since Gaylord Perry was in the bigs...and I mean that as a compliment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Centre Mad Man View Post
    There are roughly 100 Division I schools that don’t play football. Most of them are smaller, private schools.
    Hi Mad Man,
    yes thanks for the comment,
    I looked it all up too, and I should have said, and forgot to say, that only about 20 schools of about our size, or nat'l recognition, do not have football teams,
    thanks for helpful correction

  20. #45
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    College basketball and how it generates profit is ENTIRELY different from college football.

    25% of all U.S. office workers engage in a NCAA Tourney pool. The NCAA tournament is guided by sports betting. CBS/Turner knows this. The upsets and having teams like Morehead State and Lehigh in the tournament are a huge part of the tourney's appeal to casual fans. The TV people do not want a tournament that just consists of power 5 schools. TV are the folks who are calling the shots. Not the NCAA, not the conferences, not the schools.

    It is ridiculous to compare football with basketball. For the past three years Gonzaga's men's basketball team has generated more revenue than any Pac 12 school besides Arizona. You also have leagues outside the power 5 structure like the Big East (especially) who are really like a Big 12 or ACC when it comes to basketball talent, and it shows in the tournament. And then we see situations like VCU, George Mason, and Loyola Chicago. Those storylines contribute to the huge profits that are gained by the NCAA tourney.

    If BYU bolts....and I am adamant about this..........the Cougars should not be replaced by another team. There isn't a single team that can replace them. Any team that is brought in will just weaken the league. I don't want some team like Denver joining the league that will just drag down the WCC even more. I'd rather have the space for an extra out of league game and another one game week during conference play.

    FWIW - A long time college basketball pundit that I know never liked the idea of BYU joining the WCC. He felt it would just cause teams to throw in the towel because now there were 3 teams they couldn't compete with. There was more hope for USD and LMU with just Gonzaga and SMC at the top. THat it wasn't a good league decision. It also "forced" the league to bring in Pacific to come up with an even number of teams.

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    Mixed signals published the same day as the Athletic article...

    https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...tial-expansion

    All you BYU fanboys can celebrate keeping a nonfactor in the WCC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Go Zags!!!

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    If they had one tourney for the power 5 teams only, and one for everyone else and they ran them at the same time, I would never watch 1 game of the power 5 guys. I would rather watch the Zags vs Southern Illinois or Montana State vs Eastern Kentucky in the championship game than anything that the power 5 guys could offer up. I myself am tired of hearing over and over how great the power teams are. I am also sick of LSU, and Kansas with all those major violations and nothing being done to them, while Pacific, San Jose State and all those small schools getting burned for some tiny thing that don't even make any sense. I would add Arizona to the LSU and Kansas list, but I won't because of Tommy. How about the NCAA putting Oklahoma State on probation, but letting them play in the tournament anyway, because they had the top draft choice on the team. I despise the NCAA and don't think much more of the power 5 guys.

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    Big 12 should offer BYU and SDSU, maybe Boise State, and invite Gonzaga for all sports minus football.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB4 View Post
    Big 12 should offer BYU and SDSU, maybe Boise State, and invite Gonzaga for all sports minus football.
    No chance. SDSu has negative value. Cincinnati and Houston might work.

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    Really @zagdontzig? Most entitled? BYU is like any fan base. Full of grandeur and delusion. BYU's existence during the WCC in Men's basketball is unquestionably 3rd and has an argument for 2nd even if it's a weak argument. In the WCC as a conference I would be shocked if BYU didn't finish first or second overall if you look at all shared sports. Men's basketball is the one that matters and BYU is easily the 3rd best during the current time in the WCC. Without BYU WCC is not as good a conference. Does that affect the Zags? I don't think it will matter that much. They will still keep winning but the WCC is better with BYU. If the Zags left the WCC that would crush the league. It would be a conference with St Mary's winning almost every year and getting the autobid unless BYU was still there. Even if BYU was still there without the Zags the WCC is just an autobid.

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