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Thread: The spinmeister

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagbeliever View Post
    My feelings are that we've sent a lot of entitled brats (there are exceptions to that absolutely) over to "represent" our country. I've checked out. Not watching.
    I just hope the Spurs don't draft Corey.

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    The USA team's problem is that they need an alpha dog to lead them on the court. And I mean someone that takes over and makes everyone accept their roles. It's not Durant. He's a wuss. Great player, but a wuss. Lillard and Booker are both exceptionally talented scorers, but Booker is way too quiet and Lillard hasn't shown he can corral that much talent and direct players on the court. Draymond is closest to being the alpha, but he's essentially a role player on this squad as opposed to his leadership role on the Warriors. For whatever reason, Tatum hasn't demanded the respect for his game that he deserves.

    Until someone steps up and says I'm the guy that is gonna carry us with 20 point efforts game after game, they will struggle.

    And yes, Pop is an extremely rude person to people that are just trying to do their job. He could have answered the question making nearly the exact same points with a lot less snark. But, he didn't. Because he is a condescending jerk.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    You go ahead and hope all you want. Who cares. Pop was a jerk decades before his political views became known. Stevie has similar views and is justifiably and widely beloved.
    I am always am amazed by people who name call rather than articulate an intelligent response. My mother always said it's a good indicator of intelligence.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    I am always am amazed by people who name call rather than articulate an intelligent response. My mother always said it's a good indicator of intelligence.
    Passive aggressive is even worse.

  5. #30
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    Pops does not suffer fools......... and even more important..... liars............and there is no shortage of them where he is.....he is my new best friend.....

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    Popovich suffered first men’s basketball loss in Olympics since 2004 and takes it out on reporter….nuff said

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    The thing I couldn't understand was why Popovich didn't ask a couple of good centers to play on this team. And I saw that as the main problem. France had a couple good centers, and the USA team could not guard them on the inside. This fact forced the USA's guards to help out which left Euro guards to be wide open for 3's. Euro's have always been good 3 point shooters when left open. Kevin Durant, a very skinny 7 footer, tried to guard the post players and ended up on the bench almost all of the game. He had 4 fouls (in the Olympics the players are allowed just 5 fouls) on him with 5 min to go in the half. He played about 6 minutes or so in the 4th quarter and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

    Because the most popular playing style in the NBA is the Pick and Role offense, and in order to use that offense you need a good center, and the USA team didn't have a good center they COULD NOT run the pick and role offense. Therefore, the team was forced to run a Passing Game offense which had no one in the posts, and operated essentially from the outside. And the USA team could not make an outside shot. I will say that France played excellent defense on our shooters for the most part. However, the USA guards did have some wide open 3 point shots that they couldn't make for some reason.

    IMO, the only US player who played well was Holiday. He brought the team back in the 3rd quarter. He was on fire. He led the team to a 7 point advantage half-way through the of the 4th quarter. And then Durant entered the game, and the team turned to him to close the deal, and completely ignored Holiday. It is clear to me that the leader of this team is Kevin Durant, and he played a horrible game, especially on defense. If he is going to be the guy that has to guard the opposing team's centers, I do believe the USA team is in trouble.

    I believe that the USA's players DO care about playing in the Olympics. I think most of them have dreamed about playing in the Olympics. The team has only two players who HAVE PLAYED in the Olympics before, so I do believe that the team does care about winning gold. I also believe that they have pride in their country. I believe Pops is a great coach. To think otherwise is just silly and stupid. Obviously some GU fans don't like him, but that doesn't mean a whole lot to me. I believe Popovich has a plan. For some reason he did not want to have any centers on the team. I want to see how this plays out in the long run. It's good to remember that 3 of the better players on this team had not even practiced with the team before the game yesterday because they were in the NBA finals. Our USA team has great players, and it's my opinion that they will come together and play much much better. They have a couple of easier games in their pool play now; so it's going to give them time to practice together. The USA MUST figure out how to score some from the inside. So far, the only player attacking the basket was Holiday. A team can not win if they don't have a way to get baskets from inside the paint. I've always liked Pops, and have liked all of his teams, especially those that won NBA titles. I'm one who will be rooting for Pops and the USA team.

    Go USA!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

  8. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    The thing I couldn't understand was why Popovich didn't ask a couple of good centers to play on this team. And I saw that as the main problem. France had a couple good centers, and the USA team could not guard them on the inside. This fact forced the USA's guards to help out which left Euro guards to be wide open for 3's. Euro's have always been good 3 point shooters when left open. Kevin Durant, a very skinny 7 footer, tried to guard the post players and ended up on the bench almost all of the game. He had 4 fouls (in the Olympics the players are allowed just 5 fouls) on him with 5 min to go in the half. He played about 6 minutes or so in the 4th quarter and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

    Because the most popular playing style in the NBA is the Pick and Role offense, and in order to use that offense you need a good center, and the USA team didn't have a good center they COULD NOT run the pick and role offense. Therefore, the team was forced to run a Passing Game offense which had no one in the posts, and operated essentially from the outside. And the USA team could not make an outside shot. I will say that France played excellent defense on our shooters for the most part. However, the USA guards did have some wide open 3 point shots that they couldn't make for some reason.

    IMO, the only US player who played well was Holiday. He brought the team back in the 3rd quarter. He was on fire. He led the team to a 7 point advantage half-way through the of the 4th quarter. And then Durant entered the game, and the team turned to him to close the deal, and completely ignored Holiday. It is clear to me that the leader of this team is Kevin Durant, and he played a horrible game, especially on defense. If he is going to be the guy that has to guard the opposing team's centers, I do believe the USA team is in trouble.

    I believe that the USA's players DO care about playing in the Olympics. I think most of them have dreamed about playing in the Olympics. The team has only two players who HAVE PLAYED in the Olympics before, so I do believe that the team does care about winning gold. I also believe that they have pride in their country. I believe Pops is a great coach. To think otherwise is just silly and stupid. Obviously some GU fans don't like him, but that doesn't mean a whole lot to me. I believe Popovich has a plan. For some reason he did not want to have any centers on the team. I want to see how this plays out in the long run. It's good to remember that 3 of the better players on this team had not even practiced with the team before the game yesterday because they were in the NBA finals. Our USA team has great players, and it's my opinion that they will come together and play much much better. They have a couple of easier games in their pool play now; so it's going to give them time to practice together. The USA MUST figure out how to score some from the inside. So far, the only player attacking the basket was Holiday. A team can not win if they don't have a way to get baskets from inside the paint. I've always liked Pops, and have liked all of his teams, especially those that won NBA titles. I'm one who will be rooting for Pops and the USA team.

    Go USA!!!
    The problem is there are very few American centers anymore that can compete at the international stylw of game . The three best in the nba are Jokic (Serbia), Sabonis (Lithuania) and Gobert (France).

    The back to the basket days of Hakeem and Shaq and Ewing are far behind us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagsfanforlife View Post
    The problem is there are very few American centers anymore that can compete at the international stylw of game . The three best in the nba are Jokic (Serbia), Sabonis (Lithuania) and Gobert (France).

    The back to the basket days of Hakeem and Shaq and Ewing are far behind us.
    And this is by design, or at least a consequence of the NBA decision-makers. You can no longer guard. When a player slashes, it’s a bucket or the free throw line. The advantage of an efficient post presence is undermined by this reffing philosophy. This reffing philosophy, which creates more room on the perimeter and open threes, is why games in the 140 point range are not uncommon.

    It doesn’t work on the international stage when refs are not looking to protect stars, or advantage a certain style of play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsObserver View Post
    And this is by design, or at least a consequence of the NBA decision-makers. You can no longer guard. When a player slashes, it’s a bucket or the free throw line. The advantage of an efficient post presence is undermined by this reffing philosophy. This reffing philosophy, which creates more room on the perimeter and open threes, is why games in the 140 point range are not uncommon.

    It doesn’t work on the international stage when refs are not looking to protect stars, or advantage a certain style of play.

    It's too bad that Sabonis, since Lithuania was knocked out, that he can't play for the US!!! He'd make a difference...Sabonis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogozags View Post
    It's too bad that Sabonis, since Lithuania was knocked out, that he can't play for the US!!! He'd make a difference...Sabonis
    probably does hold duel citizenship

    born in Portland

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    probably does hold duel citizenship

    born in Portland
    President Sabonis has a nice ring to it.

    Then again, ANYONE ELSE would be an improvement. Sorry for the political humor, carry on.
    It's peanut butter jelly time!

  13. #38
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    This narrative that US players don’t care is just ludicrous. Who doesn’t care, KD who’s coming off an ACL injury that kept him out for a year? Middleton, Holiday and Booker who just finished the finals and took a jet to Japan right afterward? Lillard and Draymond? Those guys sometimes care too much. Seriously ridiculous.

    As for Centers, the only player in the NBA’s top 12 in rebounding last year who is absolutely eligible to play for team USA is Russell Westbrook.

    1 Capela. Swiss
    2. Gobert French
    3 Valanciunas. Lithuania
    4 Domas Lithuania
    5 Vuceviv Montenegro
    6 Russ. USA
    7 Giannis Greek
    8 Kanter Turkey
    9 Jokic Serbia
    10 KAT Domican Republic/US?
    11 Embiid Cameroon
    12 Ayton Bahamas

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23dpg View Post
    This narrative that US players don’t care is just ludicrous. Who doesn’t care, KD who’s coming off an ACL injury that kept him out for a year? Middleton, Holiday and Booker who just finished the finals and took a jet to Japan right afterward? Lillard and Draymond? Those guys sometimes care too much. Seriously ridiculous.

    As for Centers, the only player in the NBA’s top 12 in rebounding last year who is absolutely eligible to play for team USA is Russell Westbrook.

    1 Capela. Swiss
    2. Gobert French
    3 Valanciunas. Lithuania
    4 Domas Lithuania
    5 Vuceviv Montenegro
    6 Russ. USA
    7 Giannis Greek
    8 Kanter Turkey
    9 Jokic Serbia
    10 KAT Domican Republic/US?
    11 Embiid Cameroon
    12 Ayton Bahamas
    Thank you. A lot of people here who say they don't watch the NBA seem to have an awful lot of opinions about what they think it is and what its players are all about.

    He ended up not being able to play, but there were a lot of critics regarding Kevin Love's spot on the roster a few weeks back back. Popovich defended the selection specifically due to concerns about France and Gobert. They were concerned about France, and rightfully so apparently.

    "He wanted to do it badly and we have a need for his skills so we thought he was a perfect person to play against people like Gobert to get them out of the lane," Popovich said. "Spreading the court is very important and depending on what happens in a game like that, he could be very valuable."
    Regarding Popovich's response, I thought it was giving France the respect they deserve. He said they were a hell of a team with a good coaching staff and took the question to task a bit. Mark Few says similar things when similar suggestions are made about what the Zags should be doing in the WCC. This stuff isnt easy, even in situations where it might look like it.

    Hopefully the guys can get back on track tomorrow. Playoffs running until mid July certainly had to hurt as far as players getting in some reps together.

  15. #40
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    Pop can be both things: A great coach and a putz. Having 5 HoFers for most of their lengthy careers didn't hurt his record, either.

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    Based on past history, I see this thread getting the good old 23skidoo.

  17. #42
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    Pop has no pride in the USA? Actually, it's the opposite; he's got so much that he opens his mouth to put himself in the middle of it whether you agree with him or not. Could just keep his mouth shut if he had no pride in the USA, or worse, pretend like everything's fine....

  18. #43
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    Anyway, this is not a team, it's a collection of players. That will always be a problem in team sports. Pop is not insulated from responsibility, nor is USA Basketball. It's the same issue Koach had to address and had to change...how to make a Team. But now it's just a collection of players again, and not a team like it was before with Koach. (maybe they can get it together but I doubt it)

    and I can't stand the NBA, or Koach, but I supported him and them in the uni, and this group too...I'm American

    OTOH, I get folks checking out, I totally get it! but to those claiming these Americans don't care? Convenient emotional alibi you've created for yourself (based on nothing but your feelings) to justify being an American who roots for other Americans to fail internationally

    We've come a long way, baby

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Pop can be both things: A great coach and a putz. Having 5 HoFers for most of their lengthy careers didn't hurt his record, either.
    Popovich spends his time managing Hall of Fame personalities and egos. If he can get them to cooperate on the court, they win. In the NBA he doesn't need to scheme out the complex, Euro-style offenses requiring rigid discipline to execute. That is the style of play that dominates internationally, though. It used to be that Euro teams could put up a scrappy effort against the superior American individual players, but the US would win eventually. Now there are enough high caliber NBA euros who are both individually skilled and will execute complex offenses that the US strategy of relying in superior individuals isn't working.

    I don't know if Pop has the ability anymore to convince players to set aside their egos and adopt a playing style that minimizes individual excellence in order to maximize the success of the team. I think Coach K did have that ability and treated players like he does his college players. I think he was able to recreate the 'college experience' feel for the Olympic team he coached and use that novelty to get players to buy in. Pop doesn't seem able to do that. I think he needed to spend more time picking Mark Few's brain on GU's offense. He probably could not find a better, American source for innovative, offensive basketball that will work internationally.
    'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.'
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  20. #45
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    Pop’s best coaching trait was drafting David Robinson and Tim Duncan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bballbeachbum View Post
    Pop has no pride in the USA? Actually, it's the opposite; he's got so much that he opens his mouth to put himself in the middle of it whether you agree with him or not. Could just keep his mouth shut if he had no pride in the USA, or worse, pretend like everything's fine....
    \

    Absolutely ....There are no perfect Countries or perfect children......only a fool could believe otherwise..... and do a disservice to them by not trying to address those faults.... ...

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitzbuel View Post
    Popovich spends his time managing Hall of Fame personalities and egos. If he can get them to cooperate on the court, they win. In the NBA he doesn't need to scheme out the complex, Euro-style offenses requiring rigid discipline to execute. That is the style of play that dominates internationally, though. It used to be that Euro teams could put up a scrappy effort against the superior American individual players, but the US would win eventually. Now there are enough high caliber NBA euros who are both individually skilled and will execute complex offenses that the US strategy of relying in superior individuals isn't working.

    I don't know if Pop has the ability anymore to convince players to set aside their egos and adopt a playing style that minimizes individual excellence in order to maximize the success of the team. I think Coach K did have that ability and treated players like he does his college players. I think he was able to recreate the 'college experience' feel for the Olympic team he coached and use that novelty to get players to buy in. Pop doesn't seem able to do that. I think he needed to spend more time picking Mark Few's brain on GU's offense. He probably could not find a better, American source for innovative, offensive basketball that will work internationally.
    You could be right but the talking heads on ESPN opine that K just rolled the ball out and let them play and Pops is trying to make them play in a structured offense and defense...... sure the competition on is better but I suspect they will win the gold...

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    Pop’s best coaching trait was drafting David Robinson and Tim Duncan.
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Pop can be both things: A great coach and a putz. Having 5 HoFers for most of their lengthy careers didn't hurt his record, either.
    I'm sure 4 of these 5 players would give Popovich all sorts of credit for their growth in the NBA, and for being a big part of why they wanted to stay in San Antonio for such long stretches of their career.

    Forgive me if I am misreading these posts, but they seem to be minimizing a lot of Hall of Fame level work in coaching and management of a franchise because of some dislike of the guy personally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zag944 View Post
    I'm sure 4 of these 5 players would give Popovich all sorts of credit for their growth in the NBA, and for being a big part of why they wanted to stay in San Antonio for such long stretches of their career.

    Forgive me if I am misreading these posts, but they seem to be minimizing a lot of Hall of Fame level work in coaching and management of a franchise because of some dislike of the guy personally.
    do some minimize Bob Knight because of a personal dislike?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    do some minimize Bob Knight because of a personal dislike?
    Probably. I don't like him but I wouldn't hesitate to call him one of the greatest basketball coaches of my lifetime or use "having Isiah Thomas" to minimize him.

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