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Thread: Impressions of Chet after watching FIBA

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogozags View Post
    How about Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan...were you too young to watch any of these play in college and the NBA...
    I was too young. Obviously there's a lot of regency bias in my proclamation, but I can't remember a more complete player. I also don't suppose Magic, Bird, and Jordan had Holmgren's shot blocking ability, but it's obviously extremely premature to make the comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Go Zags!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post
    I was too young. Obviously there's a lot of regency bias in my proclamation, but I can't remember a more complete player. I also don't suppose Magic, Bird, and Jordan had Holmgren's shot blocking ability, but it's obviously extremely premature to make the comparison.
    Not choosing a side in this debate, but look into the story where the Lakers temporarily switched Magic's position from guard to center for a NBA CHAMPIONSHIP game (Darryl Dawkins was the opposing center). I recall it and it instantly changed my mind about him. He went from rookie All Star to Legendary NBA Icon from that one performance. It was jaw dropping and the only way Chet could top that would be to play point guard in an NBA championship game, throw down a triple double while doing it, and ultimately win the game (and championship). Seriously, that would be the equivalent.

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...6FORM%3DHDRSC3
    Last edited by MickMick; 07-13-2021 at 09:58 AM.
    I miss Mike Hart

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_x1VjOcclo

    I can't remember seeing a more complete player, at any age. He can post, pass, shoot, run a fast break, face up and dribble, block, steal, and guard. It's crazy.
    Well then tune in to abc tomorrow night at 6:00 pacific. You are in for visual amazement because those guys are all better basketball players than Chet Holmgren. Chet has a real chance to become better than some of them, but not yet. His prom was a few months ago (hope he got to go!)

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    Tap the brakes...it might be ill advised to compare a high school kid to HOF NBA players......

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_x1VjOcclo

    I can't remember seeing a more complete player, at any age. He can post, pass, shoot, run a fast break, face up and dribble, block, steal, and guard. It's crazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bogozags View Post
    How about Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan...were you too young to watch any of these play in college and the NBA...
    If Chet can knock down threes, get some out of area rebounds, and alter/block shots with regularity as a help defender from the PF position we will be miles ahead of last year’s production from the 4 spot. Everything else is gravy to me.

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    Bart is right, the euphoria needs to be reined in. Can’t help Chet or anyone.

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    Chet is one of the most unique talents I've seen, I'll say that now...Muggsy, Manute, Arvydas before the injury, to name a few. Not saying Chet is any of them, but re. unique skill sets to match their abilities and bodies, Chet right there imo.

    Looks like he loves to compete, and does the little things while also making plays and big plays.

    Final thought: as unique as he is, seems to me that Chet is also the continuing evolution of the 3 point line's impact on player development and world basketball. Who can do what and is allowed to do what, where, etc. is now in this era that allows for this kind of player development because of the 3 point line, and because of euro world influence on the game because of the 3 point line's presence. Sampson would have loved to play in this era I'd bet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Valley Zag View Post
    Well then tune in to abc tomorrow night at 6:00 pacific. You are in for visual amazement because those guys are all better basketball players than Chet Holmgren. Chet has a real chance to become better than some of them, but not yet. His prom was a few months ago (hope he got to go!)
    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    Tap the brakes...it might be ill advised to compare a high school kid to HOF NBA players......
    I understand the hesitation, but I still don't see it. I'm not saying he's better than any one player. I am saying he is more complete, or that he's ready for game speed at the NBA level, or even the elite of D1. I don't see anyone in the finals who has the entire skillset like he has. Again, I'm not saying he's better at any particular skillset, but that he has a more complete skillset. In other words, he can reliably shoot, pass, post up, drive, run out on fast breaks with and without the ball, block, steal, and guard all 5 positions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Go Zags!!!

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    There is nothing wrong with heralding Chet's unique attributes. Everything is relative. Relative to other teenagers, he is considered by many to be the nation's top prospect. That is lofty praise that is appropriate and good enough for a young man at this stage of his development. It isn't doing him a disservice to regard him realistically and with NIL consideration, it might even be doing him a disservice by not giving him his proper due. On the other hand........ Right now, it is an exaggeration to call him historically good (and I am certainly not accusing zagdontzig of doing this). Chet knows this and has never contradicted the fact that he still has much to prove. Which is good. It would be worrisome if he didn't feel palpable inner motivation to prove himself worthy of even loftier accolades.
    I miss Mike Hart

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    I think the Chet's strengths and Drew's strengths are going to complement each other perfectly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post
    I understand the hesitation, but I still don't see it. I'm not saying he's better than any one player. I am saying he is more complete, or that he's ready for game speed at the NBA level, or even the elite of D1. I don't see anyone in the finals who has the entire skillset like he has. Again, I'm not saying he's better at any particular skillset, but that he has a more complete skillset. In other words, he can reliably shoot, pass, post up, drive, run out on fast breaks with and without the ball, block, steal, and guard all 5 positions.
    Jrue Holiday is better than Chet at almost every basketball skill.
    This is not a criticism of Chet by any means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post
    I was too young. Obviously there's a lot of regency bias in my proclamation, but I can't remember a more complete player. I also don't suppose Magic, Bird, and Jordan had Holmgren's shot blocking ability, but it's obviously extremely premature to make the comparison.
    Magic and Bird played against each other in the 1979 NCAA Championship Game...

    Let it be known Bird was 3-years older but both in college dominated games...

    You might be able to find this game somewhere on Youtube (?) as well as Magic's incredible game after Kareem was injured in the Championship series...

    Chet is a very good player but he is still a "kid" as was Magic at MSU...before we crown him as the GOAT, let the kid develop and enjoy his one year in college...I'm sure he will make his teammates better just as Magic did...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Valley Zag View Post
    Jrue Holiday is better than Chet at almost every basketball skill.
    This is not a criticism of Chet by any means.
    And so are a dozen others in the final.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Valley Zag View Post
    Jrue Holiday is better than Chet at almost every basketball skill.
    This is not a criticism of Chet by any means.
    Irrelevant. Jrue is 6’3”. He could have ten times the skill and theoretically be times inferior to Chet in terms of effectiveness.

    I’ll bet most high school players, men and women, had more skill than Will Foster. And yet, Will’s height got him a roster spot on a d1 team. He would have gotten minutes on any other WCC team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsObserver View Post
    Irrelevant. Jrue is 6’3”. He could have ten times the skill and theoretically be times inferior to Chet in terms of effectiveness.

    I’ll bet most high school players, men and women, had more skill than Will Foster. And yet, Will’s height got him a roster spot on a d1 team. He would have gotten minutes on any other WCC team.
    I don't think you know what "irrelevant" means. And Jru Holiday is NOT less effective than Chet Holmgren. Yes, height is important. Even taking their height into account, Jrue Holiday is better at almost every (if not every) aspect of basketball than Chet Holmgren. Therefore, he is more complete.
    This is ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_x1VjOcclo

    I can't remember seeing a more complete player, at any age. He can post, pass, shoot, run a fast break, face up and dribble, block, steal, and guard. It's crazy.
    That Wembanyana kid made Chet look a bit more ordinary…

  17. #42
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    Sorry.....I had to read your post 3 times to get the "Muggsy" reference....Was going to say Muggsy 5'3" and Chet 7'0 is a tough comparison... but I get the "unique skill sets to match their bodies" part. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Valley Zag View Post
    I don't think you know what "irrelevant" means. And Jru Holiday is NOT less effective than Chet Holmgren. Yes, height is important. Even taking their height into account, Jrue Holiday is better at almost every (if not every) aspect of basketball than Chet Holmgren. Therefore, he is more complete.
    This is ridiculous.
    Yes, in fact, I do understand the term. You may have missed the term “theoretically.” I’m surprised, however, that you overlooked the illustration which described why skill alone is not a useful metric. Of course, Jrue is (likely) a superior player today. Again, that has little to nothing to do with my post.
    Last edited by ZagsObserver; 07-13-2021 at 02:21 PM. Reason: Typo

  19. #44
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    Kool Aid flood warning. Seek higher ground.
    Last edited by jazzdelmar; 07-13-2021 at 03:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsObserver View Post
    Yes, in fact, I do understand the term. You may have missed the term “theoretically.” I’m surprised, however, that you overlooked the illustration which described why skill alone is not a useful metric. Of course, Jrue is (likely) a superior player today. Again, that has little to nothing to do with my post.
    No, you don't. "Irrelevant" means no tendency to make the fact in question more or less likely. I said Jrue Holiday was better at nearly every basketball skill than Chet Holmgren. You said that was "irrelevant" to whether Jrue Holiday was a more complete player than Chet Holmgren. It's not irrelevant because being more skilled makes him more likely to be a more complete player.
    I'm not going to argue about the imaginary distinction between skills and athletic abilities.
    I saw the word "theoretically," I'm just not engaging that discussion. I'm talking about actual players, not hypothetical hyperskilled 5'3" guys. Anyway, I'm a fool for continuing this. I'll say no more.

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    Does this thread have a rating?
    But we don't play nobody.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Valley Zag View Post
    No, you don't. "Irrelevant" means no tendency to make the fact in question more or less likely. I said Jrue Holiday was better at nearly every basketball skill than Chet Holmgren. You said that was "irrelevant" to whether Jrue Holiday was a more complete player than Chet Holmgren. It's not irrelevant because being more skilled makes him more likely to be a more complete player.
    I'm not going to argue about the imaginary distinction between skills and athletic abilities.
    I saw the word "theoretically," I'm just not engaging that discussion. I'm talking about actual players, not hypothetical hyperskilled 5'3" guys. Anyway, I'm a fool for continuing this. I'll say no more.
    Oh my goodness. They are entirely different players, positions, you name it. It would be like comparing Stockton to Shaq.

    Irrelevant.

    And your comment was demeaning, not to mention ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sittingon50 View Post
    Does this thread have a rating?
    Way too soon to compute.

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    Morrison was hardly recruited. He grew several inches and was a world-beater.

    Some kids are only a few inches separated from the nba and playing low d1 ball.

    As for 8 or 9 inches…

  25. #50
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    I watched most of the games and thought Chet was amazingly poised for an 18 year old. He has mad ball skills and has the ability to read the court better than most freshmen I've seen. He's fearless and smart. We are in for a crazy good year imo

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