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Thread: All time starting 5 (do you agree with Raftery?)

  1. #26
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    Post 1999

    Suggs
    NWG
    Morrison
    Holmgren
    Sabonis

    Cheating a little with Holmgren but he is so good.

  2. #27
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    Stockton
    Kispert
    Tillie
    Olynyk
    Sabonis

    So I didn't see the criteria that stated "while in college" so the best PG is John Stockton, and my SG would be Kispert (realizing he might have issues defending his opponent's SG), Tillie is a total mismatch for the other team, Olynyk (after his RS year) was also unstoppable and Sabonis is one-of-a-kind...unstoppable...

    All five can shoot the three and all of them would take their defenders to the hoop and all can pass well and rebound...


    Adam and DD really didn't play defence...only long enough to get the ball back so they could shoot (imo) but they would be on my ten player squad along with Woolridge, PK and JWIII...which would be a pretty darn good starting five in their own right...

  3. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagfan08 View Post
    Post 1999

    Suggs
    NWG
    Morrison
    Holmgren
    Sabonis

    Cheating a little with Holmgren but he is so good.
    I'd sub Olynyk for Holmgren, but agree on the other 4. missing a shot blocker, but that offense would be incredible

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanilla Gorilla View Post
    I'd sub Olynyk for Holmgren, but agree on the other 4. missing a shot blocker, but that offense would be incredible
    Suggs is the best shot blocker on that team.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    Can’t tell if you’ve convinced yourself and then took it back. I said we’ll see. I don’t why you seem to think a year of playing against the no 1 team or with the no 1 team in the country would hurt him. Remember the no 1 team is the no 1 team without him. Thus, it’s a given the competition would be tough. It’s kinda moot.
    You seem to make an assumption that he’ll be a frontline starter next year against NBAers. He might but he might not. Like I said, we’ll see. As an aside, think he'll be a better player than say.Sabonis? I don't even think so...not at his position. No point in arguing. Jalen was a great one year player here. I wish him the best as he moves on.
    I don't think a year in college would hurt Suggs' development, regardless of which college.

    But that wasn't the choice and isn't relevant to anything I wrote. The options were another year at GU vs a year in the NBA. The league will have 3x(+) as many total minutes of game time, a much larger staff devoted to him, a larger budget for his diet, training, strength, and he'll also be playing with and against much better players on any NBA team than on any college team. I completely accept the occasional idea that X player should return to college for a major draft position gain. (see Corey). But I don't think there's ever justification for a top-3 or top-5 draft pick to return to school purely because they'd improve more over the next 365 days as a collegiate player than a professional. If some (completely unusual) top-5 or even top-10 pick opted to return to play in college because he just loved a certain coach or school or team, then more power to him. But I don't think it would be in the best interest from skill development.

    I *slightly* lean toward thinking Jalen's going to be better in the league than Sabonis, but I'm not willing to bet much on it. Sabonis could easily end up being a ~6x all-star, and who knows how he'd improve with better teammates outside of Indiana.

  6. #31
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    Also there are certain facts that need to be remembered when talking about the numbers that Frank Burgess put up.

    1. he was double and triple team in almost every game.
    2. There was no 3-point shots and he averaged 32.4 points a game.
    3. free throw percentage .820 for three years
    4. only three years at GU
    5. averaged 7.6 rebounds (no assist stats).

    My five would be: Stockton, Burgess, Sabonis, Clark, and Ammo (but Suggs only year makes him close) But remember I saw Burgess play

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DZ View Post
    True with all the numbers, etc. But numbers are just numbers.

    We never had a guy who in the semifinals could block a critical dunk, chase down the ball himself, and push it up the floor with a sick bounce pass for our dunk, critical 4 point swing. And then having the presence to already be turning the motor downcourt taking the pass for the last shot.

    It's why he's going to go 2-5 in the draft, Ammo country.

    It's crazy but I'd take Clarke over Rui

    Stockton-Suggs-Ammo-Sabonis-Clarke
    Not at all crazy. Clarke was our best rim protector. Ever.

    I’ll take that starting five and give me NWG and Olynyk off the bench.
    It's peanut butter jelly time!

  8. #33
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    Stockton
    Sabonis
    Morrison
    Olynyk
    Elias Harris

    Stockton as a college player would have made life miserable for every one of our many other great guards. He was terrific and way underrated. I saw it with my own eyes.

  9. #34
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    Suggs
    Goss
    Morrisson
    Sabonis
    Olynyk

    This keeps getting tougher lol.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by g-ride View Post
    1) Erroll Knight
    2) Erroll Knght
    3) Erroll Knght
    4) Erroll Knght
    5) Erroll Knght
    Oh heck yeah.

  11. #36
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    This used to be much, much easier.

    Recency bias is always a huge factor. On the other hand, you are what your record says you are.
    I miss Mike Hart

  12. #37
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    Ok, second team is the Bonus and four guys and gals from Portland’s cafeteria.

  13. #38
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    Chet hasn't played yet..

    Suggs
    Downs
    Clarke
    Collins
    Sabonis

    Go!! Zags!!!
    "Learn from the past, Plan for the future, Live in the Now!"

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by g-ride View Post
    1) Erroll Knight
    2) Erroll Knght
    3) Erroll Knght
    4) Erroll Knght
    5) Erroll Knght
    LOL, no doubt.
    'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.'
    - Gandalf the Grey

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  15. #40

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    My best friend in HS was #22 and I was #3. I emulated ammo and he emulated Knight

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagsfanforlife View Post
    My best friend in HS was #22 and I was #3. I emulated ammo and he emulated Knight
    I must have missed that years nba draft.

  17. #42

    Default You're very right

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDevilGolfZag View Post
    Stockton
    Sabonis
    Morrison
    Olynyk
    Elias Harris

    Stockton as a college player would have made life miserable for every one of our many other great guards. He was terrific and way underrated. I saw it with my own eyes.
    Stockton averaged over 20 his senior year without a 3 pt line. He put up some major numbers that year - we were there together Sun Devil (both of us went to Pac-12 schools, I see). He was way, way too much for the WCAC at the time.

  18. #43
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    This thread inspired me to do something a little different. I nominated 38 Zags since the 1998 season. I input their raw statistics (P/R/A/S/B/T) into a computer game and let it draft the players on its own. Snake draft between two teams. I'm interested in inputting per possession or per minute stats to see what changes (like Karno's numbers aren't great on a per game basis because of limited minutes e.g.).

    The #1 overall pick to Blue Team was Brandon Clarke. #2 was Adam Morrison.

    BLUE:
    G: Dan Dickau
    G: Nigel Williams-Goss
    F: Rui Hachimura
    F: Brandon Clarke
    C: Donatis Sabonis
    6: Josh Perkins (G)
    7: Drew Timme (C)

    WHITE:
    G: Jalen Suggs
    G: Blake Stepp
    F: Adam Morrison
    F: Casey Calvary
    C: JP Batista
    6: Ronny Turiaf (F)
    7: Matt Santangelo (G)

  19. #44
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    Like some others, the thread inspired me to do something just a bit different. MY all-time Zags team. 13 scholies, assuming for each their best season while in school. I'm the AD, the GM, the HC and the Commissioner all rolled into one. I also spent more time on this than I care to admit. It also made me realize just how special this 20+ year run has been as their were many BELOVED Zags who didn't make my squad. Could've gone 20 different ways and wouldn't be wrong either.

    STARTERS:
    J. Stockton
    J. Suggs
    A. Morrison
    D. Sabonis
    K. Olynyk

    BENCH:
    N. Williams-Goss
    D. Dickau
    B. Clarke
    C. Calvary
    R. Turiaf
    C. Kispert
    C. Holmgren
    E. Knight

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by zag67 View Post
    Also there are certain facts that need to be remembered when talking about the numbers that Frank Burgess put up.

    1. he was double and triple team in almost every game.
    2. There was no 3-point shots and he averaged 32.4 points a game.
    3. free throw percentage .820 for three years
    4. only three years at GU
    5. averaged 7.6 rebounds (no assist stats).

    My five would be: Stockton, Burgess, Sabonis, Clark, and Ammo (but Suggs only year makes him close) But remember I saw Burgess play
    Agree 67..................As was stated earlier, gotta start with the jerseys in the rafters. My only change to your five would be Jerry Vermillion for Brandon Clarke.

    Lots of great players to choose from. Shout out to Matt Santangelo, very underrated in ZAG lore. He would be on my second team.

    Go ZAGS

  21. #46
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    From an NBA perspective:

    Stockton - picked 16th overall
    Suggs -projected top 3 pick
    Morrison - 3rd pick overall and hand picked by Jordan
    Sabonis - picked 11th overall
    Olynyk - picked 13th overall

    Almost made the cut - Daye picked 15th overall, Dickau picked 28th overall.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagfan1 View Post
    From an NBA perspective:

    Stockton - picked 16th overall
    Suggs -projected top 3 pick
    Morrison - 3rd pick overall and hand picked by Jordan
    Sabonis - picked 11th overall
    Olynyk - picked 13th overall

    Almost made the cut - Daye picked 15th overall, Dickau picked 28th overall.
    Rui #9
    Collins #10
    Clarke #21

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgadfly View Post
    Rui #9
    Collins #10
    Clarke #21
    Yeah I totally had a brain lapse type moment. Forgot those three.

  24. #49
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    Any all time 5 should have Sabonis, Adam and Stockton. The other two slots open for debate. IMO.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by daskim View Post
    The all time starting five must be Gonzaga players who combined good offensive AND good defense.

    Suggs
    Goss Williams
    Karnowski
    Sabonis
    Clarke
    I like this one. Can I add Ronny Turiaf to make it 6?

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