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Thread: Article on whether WCC hurts GU come tourney time.

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    Default Article on whether WCC hurts GU come tourney time.


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    A great article that puts into words the data from this thread below ...
    http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/...e-(*)-asterisk)

    "To be continued ....."
    Father Tony Lehman, SJ

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    The issue is that thread lacked context as there have been multiple levels of the Gonzaga program. I would say that two Championship game appearances, along with six straight S16's would render the WCC argument moot. They ran into a better Baylor team this year and they were right there with North Carolina in 2017. We've beaten plenty of P6 schools in the regular season and the NCAA tournament. Bottom line is that it is really hard to win the NCAA tournament. Not to mention that at least 75% of 1 seeds will lose every tournament, it's the nature of the beast.

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    Its a lazy argument made by people that watch casually/unintelligently or are paid to talk about sports and have OPINIONS. We were more ready for UCLA than Michigan was and more ready for the tourney than Illinois was. A team has to lose every game and it's stupid that every one of our rare losses needs to be an empathic statement about what it means to be part of the WCC.

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    I am not going to read another article about a dead horse...nor am I gong to cherry pick any statistics to " prove" my opinion....but it is MHO that the lack of competition hurts but a annual ticket to the dance and the opportunity to scrimmage with officials for 20 or so games helps.....and the winter weather is nice in California...

    In any case it doesn't matter..... because there is no option....it is what it is....

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    Yes. But unless and until Big East decides to expand by adding some western teams, there’s simply no place for Zag basketball, men and women, to go. Non-revenue sports can stay put; travel is just too expensive. GU does not fit the culture of power conferences, happily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TravelinZag View Post
    Yes. But unless and until Big East decides to expand by adding some western teams, there’s simply no place for Zag basketball, men and women, to go. Non-revenue sports can stay put; travel is just too expensive. GU does not fit the culture of power conferences, happily.
    Agree with this. Would more tough games make the team better- give them additional experience against better, bigger, more athletic players. However, the Mountain West help, the geography for the big east isn't realistic, and the lack of football makes the pac-12 a non-starter.

    We can win a championship in the WCC, but if an opportunity arises to get to a substantial better conference, obviously we should take it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matttrick View Post
    Agree with this. Would more tough games make the team better- give them additional experience against better, bigger, more athletic players. However, the Mountain West help, the geography for the big east isn't realistic, and the lack of football makes the pac-12 a non-starter.

    We can win a championship in the WCC, but if an opportunity arises to get to a substantial better conference, obviously we should take it.
    The lack of being a tier one research institution makes the PAC a non-starter, too. Same reason BYU will never be invited.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    I am not going to read another article about a dead horse...nor am I gong to cherry pick any statistics to " prove" my opinion....but it is MHO that the lack of competition hurts but a annual ticket to the dance and the opportunity to scrimmage with officials for 20 or so games helps.....and the winter weather is nice in California...

    In any case it doesn't matter..... because there is no option....it is what it is....
    .....”It pours, man, it pours" .....

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    You have to turn yourself into a pretzel trying to rationalize why GU isn't "ready"

    I mean there are only 350+ D1 institutions that would love to be in the natty every 3 years.

    Even giving a counter argument lends credibility to this nonsense.

    Does anyone truly believe that "if GU were only in the Big East", they would have been better prepared for Baylor? Good Lord. Did you see how Creighton played us? Did they challenge any more than Pepperdine did? It appeared to me that they measured about half the competition of BYU. I think Ross, by the way, gets hot and the Waves take 2 of three from Creighton. Ross can pull that unstoppable mode on them for a bit instead of on GU.
    Last edited by MickMick; 04-09-2021 at 11:58 AM.
    I miss Mike Hart

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    WCC keeps slowly improving. KenPom rankings for the WCC this season:
    GU 1
    BYU 20
    SMC 75
    PEPP 90
    USF 93
    LMU 94
    PAC 117
    SCU 145
    USD 195
    PORT 321
    First time ever with 6 in the top 100. Only 2 outside of top 150. USD had a horrible time getting on the court due to COVID. Hopefully Portland can make improvements with a new coach. It won’t happen overnight, but the WCC is getting better.
    Bottom 3 of the Big 12 this year:
    TCU 140
    KSU 147
    ISU 171
    Bottom 3 of the ACC this year:
    Miami 138
    BC 148
    WF 175
    Outside of Portland there wasn’t really a resume killer on the conference schedule.

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Snel4krXS0

    Greenburg responds to Jay Williams' question about Zag's not winning in two finals...Jay somehow hinting that Few is not capable.
    montanazag88
    P....A....TIENCE!

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    My final retort on the 247 Sports Washington (dawgman.com) thread. I'm there as a longtime UDub football supporter.

    . A brief recap of this "DawgNews" thread. He posted a tweet from the "Culture, Arts and Entertainment" guy at the WaPost (referred to him as "media guy") about the WCC. I answered with a Mike DeCourcy piece countering the narrative ... then a couple facts (ie GU with the most NCAA tourney wins since '15/GU T1 for the most Final 4 wins since '17). I then answered tpolish's post echoing his desire for UW/GU to become more competitive, and hoping it's due to UDub improvement.

    Enter callen's gleeful post about the Zags being 0-8 in the dance against 1 seeds. Never mind that the 0-8 vs 1 seeds consists of 10 seed GU losing to UConn (eventual Nat. Champ) in the Elite 8, 12 seed GU losing to MSU (eventual Nat. Champ) in the Sweet 16, 9 seed GU losing to Arizona in the Round of 32, 4 seed GU losing to UNC (eventual Nat. Champ) in the Sweet 16, 8 GU seed losing to Syracuse in the Round of 32, 8 seed GU losing to Arizona in the Round of 32, 2 seed GU losing to Duke (eventual Nat. Champ) in the Elite 8, 1 seed GU losing to 1 seed UNC in the National Championship game and 1 seed GU losing to 1 seed Baylor in the National Championship game. Shameful. "The horror .... the horror".

    Then ... Gonzaga can't win the title. GU has won 39 games in the NCAA Tournament but haven't won the Title. That's true ... but look at it compared to a couple of Power 5 conferences who last won Titles around the time of the start of Gonzaga's cute little run. The Pac 12 (last Champion was '97 Arizona) has won 137 NCAA tourney games and matches the Zags' zero titles since '97. The Big 10 (last Champion was the '01 Michigan State squad that had beaten 12 seed GU in the Sweet 16) has won 148 NCAA tourney games and matches the Zags' zero titles since '01.

    If it is true that the WCC doesn't "prepare" GU for the dance is it then ALSO true that the Big 10 and Pac 12 schedules don't "prepare" it's members for the post season?

    Can't wait for DawgNews to find another "media" person (perhaps this time from some teen heartthrob blog) to refute the facts.

    "To be continued ....."
    Father Tony Lehman, SJ

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    Great post GoZags.
    I had to listen to Wilbon and others excuse the poor performance of the Big 10 yet again by explaining that they beat up on each other during the season and have nothing left for the Tourney. It's some of the same people saying GU conference holds it back. Looking at the recruits we are getting and the results on the floor, it's hard to make the case that the WCC is hurting us. We have never been stronger as a program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montanazag88 View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Snel4krXS0

    Greenburg responds to Jay Williams' question about Zag's not winning in two finals...Jay somehow hinting that Few is not capable.
    Jay Williams is one of the worst analysts there is. He’s only on air as he’s a Duke guy and it’s ESPN who loves them anything ACC/Duke basketball


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    The facts are simply the facts. And I am sorry, but the WCC is a better basketball league for Gonzaga than the MWC at this time. Haven't people learned? The WCC would've sent 3 teams to the dance last season. GU only used the MWC's flirtation with GU to better their allotment within the WCC. The MWC is not what it used to be. Most MWC athletic departments are in the red to the point where some teams are considering dropping football, which is the main driving engine at most colleges. The days of Jimmer and RPI manipulation are over. Gonzaga is where it belongs, and the hidden hero in all of this is WCC Commissioner Gloria Nevarez who has been outstanding thus far. You not only see her at run of the mill WCC games like LMU at Pacific and USD at Portland, but you will even see her at key Gonzaga road games. She stepped up to the plate and insisted that Gonzaga get its just due for all its prior tourney success, and gave incentives for other WCC teams to better their programs to join the success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
    My final retort on the 247 Sports Washington (dawgman.com) thread. I'm there as a longtime UDub football supporter.
    Thanks for that! A coug fan gave me a simialr stat, I thnk 1-12 against 3 seed or better and your reply here is a great response. Thanks again!

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    The WCC per say doesn't hurt the Zags. The problem is that the ncaa does not want a team from any small conference winning the championship. This year only strengthened my thought on that. Baylor allowed to get away with all that hand checking, and holding our cutters. That charge on Suggs, and the no call on Watson, the no call on Timme, the no call when Kispert was hit in the side of the head shooting a layup. Until I am proven wrong, I will keep believing that.

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    So what will they say when we win the title next year? The same damned thing is what they’ll say 1 extra win for the title , with these elite oriented pimps, won’t matter if they don’t want it to. And that’s what most of these sportscasters and journalists are: pimps for the power 5 schools . Sorry for the word but it just fits!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    So what will they say when we win the title next year? The same damned thing is what they’ll say 1 extra win for the title , with these elite oriented pimps, won’t matter if they don’t want it to. And that’s what most of these sportscasters and journalists are: pimps for the power 5 schools . Sorry for the word but it just fits!
    So are the refs. I hope we do win it next year, but I will believe a school from a small conference wins the title when I see it and not before. It will be even harder if all those schools in that little conference are private institutions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOtherGreatOne View Post
    The WCC per say doesn't hurt the Zags. The problem is that the ncaa does not want a team from any small conference winning the championship. This year only strengthened my thought on that. Baylor allowed to get away with all that hand checking, and holding our cutters. That charge on Suggs, and the no call on Watson, the no call on Timme, the no call when Kispert was hit in the side of the head shooting a layup. Until I am proven wrong, I will keep believing that.
    Agree, but it's like pointing out that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Vulture View Post
    Jay Williams is one of the worst analysts there is. He’s only on air as he’s a Duke guy and it’s ESPN who loves them anything ACC/Duke basketball


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Jay Williams is awful as an analyst and has been for a long time! Unfortunate accident that ended his career because he could really play.

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    Someone just posted NCAA tournament wins per team since 2010 (titles indicated in parenthesis):

    Kentucky 31 (1)
    Duke 26 (2)
    Kansas 25
    Gonzaga 25
    UNC 24 (1)
    Michigan 22
    Michigan St 21
    Syracuse 20
    Florida 19
    Villanova 19 (2)

    That's 232 wins for 6 titles, or 38.6 wins per title, ha ha.

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    Jay Williams is nothing but a BCS snob.

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    the WCC could help even more I think. Mark Few has evolved beautifully, the WCC could help a next phase, get over that last hump and break through

    I get the argument that the best players play, only so many minutes, etc. But the 7 man rotation has some limits, matchup issue limitations, other stuff. The WCC provides for opportunity to work that into 8-9 players imo, especially now with the recruiting evolution going on in Spokane as well. A deeper bench that contributes in its various roles come tourney time could be the final puzzle piece to what goes down in March and help overcome that stuff

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