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Thread: Monday Morning Quarterback Thread

  1. #26
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    The turnovers killed us. We never could get a good flow going.
    WE ZIGGED, WE ZAGGED, AND WE STILL ENDED UP AT THE KENNEL !

  2. #27
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    Last night was a tough loss to take. I had my 13-year old in tears next to me when we finally turned it off with 4 minutes to go. Losing would've hurt no matter what, but the manner of losing was the hardest part to take, as it never really felt like we were in it. We were beat on the glass, from the three-point line, on turnovers... Even with Baylor in foul trouble inside we couldn't get any kind of consistent offense going inside. Just a brutal way to end an otherwise magical season.
    I will thank God for the day and the moment I have. - Jimmy V

  3. #28
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    Baylor took advantage of our lack of shooting in how they defended Timme. We are preseason favorites as of now but we will need more reliable shooting next year, especially with Kispert leaving.

    One thing that was unfortunately pretty glaring was the lack of scoring off the bench this year. It got dicey outside of our starting 5 and very reliant on just about all of them to play well against a good team.

    Ultimately we ran into a buzz saw in the first half last night. Hats off to Baylor, a very deserving champion.

  4. #29
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    It’s hard to rationalize/break down what exactly happened in that game last night. We got beat in all faucets of the game except shooting percentage. We needed a big game from Timme and that didn’t happen. Maybe it was lack of depth and that caught up to them for the tight turnaround in playing against Baylor. Team just looked like they were gassed from the initial tip. Wish the game could have been more competitive and could have finally got the monkey off the back by winning the championship. It’s hard to believe Baylor was that much better. Don’t know what happened to Gonzaga’s shooting. Couldn’t make any threes the whole weekend. Losing that game just sucked. Can’t sugar coat it more.

  5. #30
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    Our team was great this year, but we were somewhat overhyped down the stretch and were always susceptible to a loss like this against an ultra physical, athletic team with more depth. If we play our A game, we can obviously win this game, but Baylor was a tough match up for us. Our switch everything philosophy worked well all season long, but was doomed against two ultra talented, NBA calibre guards who love to break you down off the dribble.

    We play a beautiful brand of basketball that meticulously picked apart every other team we faced this year, but Baylor turned this into a dog fight and we weren't ready to match their physicality. This game was an invaluable lesson for the whole team going forward in their basketball careers. It's a tough pill to swallow, but every one of them will be better for experiencing a loss like this.

    Nothing but love for the team. They should feel nothing but pride for what they accomplished this season.

  6. #31
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    I think there really was only one team that was "an ultra physical, athletic team with more depth." We ran into them in the NC game. It is super rare in college hoops to have such a complete package.
    'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bayÖ small acts of kindness and love.'
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  7. #32
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    Zags were not a great shooting team. I know that sounds blasphemous saying it about an all time fg% team. But they werenít. They were incredible, historically incredible at getting good shots.
    If you look at the shooting charts that map where shots were taken and made, it becomes clear. Zags had a couple of very clean looks from 3 early and missed, by a lot. Baylor was a great shooting team

    Love my Zags! Next year!

  8. #33
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    I found myself wondering why Few didn't stop the bleed in that first ten minutes with more timeouts. Other than that, we threw our book at them and it wasn't the right formula.
    Agree the team was lackluster from the taxing UCLA game.
    One of the greatest stories in basketball history...Gonzaga!

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheps001 View Post
    It was not meant to be. Just looking at them physically compared to us was like looking at Men v Boys. They were just more physically mature if you will, bigger. And we had no help for Timme in the middle. We needed another big big to help him out and Watson is too young and immature physically, Ballo and Zahkarov haven't panned out and this indicates Few's shortcoming as a recruiter (surprise). It might have been better for him to get a guard and a big on the transfer portal and this may have helped. Also Greg is too young. Not like other years and this hurt us. Also too, we were a bit flat and this was to be expected after such an exciting game against UCLA and the energy expended in trying to maintain a perfect season. So lets enjoy it and look forward to the future. Just my two cents. Go Zags!
    Lotta truth there.

    "IF" Timme...Nemb and joel come back we still will have IQ galore. The artival of Hunter Sallis is going to change the game...THAT KID IS SKILLED. If theres a guy to be patient with...its BALLO. He deveolps a bit more...the kid is still growing into that huge body. This guy could clear out the middle....Anton develops a bit more also...we are there...we are close now.

    Kinda funny, Im not bummed out at all. I got treated to some really terrific basketball....and we will be even better next year...and wiser...just a tad more development gets us home. Let the bodies heal up...back to work...lotsa championshios get built in thr off season. TERRIFIC TEAM.

    This team doesnt need to learn the game...they know it well...personal physical improvements will be the difference.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitzbuel View Post
    I think there really was only one team that was "an ultra physical, athletic team with more depth." We ran into them in the NC game. It is super rare in college hoops to have such a complete package.
    That's a very fair point, I think Baylor was maybe the only team up to the task this season (although Illinois at their best or Michigan with Isaiah Livers would have given us an interesting game). My main point is that we had real weaknesses that our incredible strengths were able to compensate for and hide most of the season. The way that many in the media treated us like we were untouchable down the stretch always made me cringe a bit.

  11. #36
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    In a lot of ways, this GU team overachieved with their amazing chemistry. It turns out, at least last night, you can take a wrecking ball to that with physical play. The Zags are mentally tough— perhaps the most mentally tough we have had— but they couldn’t match the physical toughness of Baylor, particularly on the boards.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by spike_jr View Post
    This morning, I had two thoughts on my mind. We always hear that the WCC doesnít prepare us for big games in the tournament. Iím wondering if that is true, but not because we of the competition. We always seem to run in to two things that we donít see in the WCC Season:
    1. Big arenas/stadiums which I have to wonder the affect on our shooting from distance. Yes, BYU has a huge gym but it was meant for basketball. We always seem to shoot poorly from 3 in the football stadiums.
    2. Officiating that allows physical play (and no, Iím not blaming officiating for the loss as it was fairly consistent). For instanc, Timme was mugged throughout the first half of every time he was trying to establish position. If a WCC crew officiated last nightís game, we would have been watching walkons from both teams playing in the first half.

    I really donít have answers to either question, just wondering out loud.
    The real problem isnt GU....its the totally diffetent standards of what constitutes a foul. Some teams will do what they want till the refs halt it...others try to play within the rules. We are the latter...lotta hands from Baylor last night..especially early on. Tbey play hard...and only the refs are going to back those guys down.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim77 View Post
    The real problem isnt GU....its the totally diffetent standards of what constitutes a foul. Some teams will do what they want till the refs halt it...others try to play within the rules. We are the latter...lotta hands from Baylor last night..especially early on. Tbey play hard...and only the refs are going to back those guys down.
    I thought this was the year where our guards would be able to weather that storm.

  14. #39
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    IMO, there's just not that much to MMQB this. Baylor hit their 3s, early and often, 60% in the first half. The ones they missed, they got the offensive board.

    In their two losses this year, they shot less than 25% both times.

    Defensively, we gave them too many good looks from 3...mic drop.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim77 View Post
    The real problem isnt GU....its the totally diffetent standards of what constitutes a foul. Some teams will do what they want till the refs halt it...others try to play within the rules. We are the latter...lotta hands from Baylor last night..especially early on. Tbey play hard...and only the refs are going to back those guys down.
    I think this is probably the one thing that stood out more than anything. On a couple possessions, in the 2nd half, one that started a Baylor run, Corey was blocked from behind. While the Baylor player got ball, his arm raked through Coreyís head to get there. Anton had the ball stripped under the basket. Baylor player got the ball but also a ton of Antonís forearm. There were a couple phantom calls in our players as well where the whistle was blown but on replay I couldnít find the foul/contact.

    Iím not saying the refs were to blame but the NCAA has to figure out how to consistently officiate a player establishing position on the low block. Timme had to exert so much energy as he wrestled for position on every possession. It doesnít feel like basketball.

  16. #41
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    Finesse vs. Physicality
    I agree with ZagHouse, "It doesn’t feel like basketball." One of the main reasons I love to watch the Zags, is they play the game of basketball with finesse. Great passing, great cutting, great plays, share the ball, prefer to make an assist rather than the bucket, hustle, get out in transition, etc. It's the way the game was designed to be played. Turning the game into a rugby or wrestling match is ruining the game of basketball.

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    I was pretty bummed last night watching Vital bully his way around with size over Timme for rebounds and buckets until today when I learned he will turn 25 in a couple of months. That is a grown man, imagine the size Watson could put on if he was in the program for 4 more years.

  18. #43
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    One thing I think we should keep in mind. If the Zags hit two more threes in the first half (33%), and if Baylor "only" hit 50% of their threes (one less), despite everything, we would have been within one point. We missed open threes... they didn't. When we got behind, most of our guys tried to do too much individually, and we got out of our game. Despite the score, a few misses by them and a few makes by us, and it's a very close game. That's despite the fact that they did manhandle us most of the game. Just sayin'
    Second point- I think we all knew our weakness this year has been our bigs, but no one successfully attacked that weakness until this game. Ayayi was (almost) our top rebounder!
    This has been a great season, and the Zags were mature beyond their years, given covid and the pressure of being #1 unbeaten. Few and the program are finally getting the recognition they deserve. If you haven't seen it yet, the Zags are already pre-season #1 for next year, according to The Athletic. Looking forward to another exciting season. I wish the wait wasn't so long! Go Zags!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagal View Post
    One thing I think we should keep in mind. If the Zags hit two more threes in the first half (33%), and if Baylor "only" hit 50% of their threes (one less), despite everything, we would have been within one point. We missed open threes... they didn't. When we got behind, most of our guys tried to do too much individually, and we got out of our game. Despite the score, a few misses by them and a few makes by us, and it's a very close game. That's despite the fact that they did manhandle us most of the game. Just sayin'
    Second point- I think we all knew our weakness this year has been our bigs, but no one successfully attacked that weakness until this game. Ayayi was (almost) our top rebounder!
    This has been a great season, and the Zags were mature beyond their years, given covid and the pressure of being #1 unbeaten. Few and the program are finally getting the recognition they deserve. If you haven't seen it yet, the Zags are already pre-season #1 for next year, according to The Athletic. Looking forward to another exciting season. I wish the wait wasn't so long! Go Zags!

    Had a similar thought, they were soo much better, and yet, an open Kispert three and them starting 4/5 from 3 instead of 5/5 and maybe it's a 4 point game. Not the way it works out necessarily, but missing open shots killed us, and Baylor really was able to be the aggressor. Can't say a team that gets out-rebounded by 15 (or whatever) truly had much of a chance.

  20. #45
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    I've watched every tough loss this program has been through during this amazing streak and this one ranks right up there with the worst of 'em. This reminded me of the Nevada loss in '02. They just took our lunch money and laughed. What makes this worse is that it's the Natty and you never want to get slapped around like that in the Natty.
    Baylor was just physically superior last night and their scouting report (thanks Rem, much appreciated) was dead nuts. They were rotating guys in and out to hound Timme and we were rotating guys due to foul trouble and desperation. Few got punked and had no answers. Very hard loss to swallow.

    There is a bright future for this program and that's not in dispute. There's a lot of chatter out there from outsiders saying the same old things that we've heard before, but as a fan of Gonzaga I don't give a g-d what those arse holes think. Back to the grind and keep working.

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    Beat everyone, and enjoy drinking from a chalice filled with their salty tears.
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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagal View Post
    One thing I think we should keep in mind. If the Zags hit two more threes in the first half (33%), and if Baylor "only" hit 50% of their threes (one less), despite everything, we would have been within one point. We missed open threes... they didn't. When we got behind, most of our guys tried to do too much individually, and we got out of our game. Despite the score, a few misses by them and a few makes by us, and it's a very close game. That's despite the fact that they did manhandle us most of the game. Just sayin'
    Second point- I think we all knew our weakness this year has been our bigs, but no one successfully attacked that weakness until this game. Ayayi was (almost) our top rebounder!
    This has been a great season, and the Zags were mature beyond their years, given covid and the pressure of being #1 unbeaten. Few and the program are finally getting the recognition they deserve. If you haven't seen it yet, the Zags are already pre-season #1 for next year, according to The Athletic. Looking forward to another exciting season. I wish the wait wasn't so long! Go Zags!
    Same can be added to the equation. 3 fewer offensive rebounds for them (which means 3 fewer shots taken) and 3 fewer turnovers by us (means 3 more opportunities) we would have had a good game going

    But the basketball gods did not align we reflect, contemplate, plan and move forward
    Basketball...The Toy Department of Life

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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zag Lady View Post
    Finesse vs. Physicality
    I agree with ZagHouse, "It doesn’t feel like basketball." One of the main reasons I love to watch the Zags, is they play the game of basketball with finesse. Great passing, great cutting, great plays, share the ball, prefer to make an assist rather than the bucket, hustle, get out in transition, etc. It's the way the game was designed to be played. Turning the game into a rugby or wrestling match is ruining the game of basketball.
    Yup.


    Part of our "ball handling" problems had more to do with the "battered player syndrome". Go rewatch the first half and note where the defenders hands are. Easy to defend when you can push or shove somebody where you want.

    Back in the day of hand checking...I had a guy who thought he could push/grab me were he wanted me. I got tired of it...so I reached up with my non dribbling hand and grabbed his pushing hand....and didnt let go. The ref called a foul on me. So I asked the ref to show me in the rule book where it says he can hold me...dont I have the right to hold him then? The ref got the message....and I still got the foul. Mission accomplished. Dont let another team mug you. I actually had a guy on my team count the 3sec count out VERY loud...to get the refs attention. The refs dont like it...but it plants the seed. Sometimes its ok to get a tech. The Bears decided.to limit GUs movement...and they did it..well. I hope BALLO makes big strides this off season...we need his size.

    This works good too:

    https://youtu.be/KsdnDSw2Z5E

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitzbuel View Post
    I think there really was only one team that was "an ultra physical, athletic team with more depth." We ran into them in the NC game. It is super rare in college hoops to have such a complete package.
    Kitz hit it right on the head.

    We looked like the best "college team" in the country in defeating UCLA - I suspect we couldn't beaten Houston in a tough game, too.

    Baylor is on another level for one reason, they are simply bigger stronger and faster at almost every position. When I watched them play Houston, I texted my brother, said "It looks like an NBA team playing a college team" and hoped that we had more quickness and such a flow we'd be okay.

    But from the first two times down the floor, four offensive rebounds to points on 2nd/3rd chances, it was just so clear to me. They are so much bigger and thicker that they're going outmuscle us.

    Our only real hope was if they shot poorly from 3 and they did the opposite.

    The story has been "Gonzaga" all year bc we blew everyone out, right on up through USC. UCLA (A college team) played the perfect game, we won.

    All year it was "Two teams have separated themselves" - that game proved to me that it was only really one. It is not on our guys at all. They probably didn't have as much left in the tank, and those first 3 minutes just ripped their hearts out. Looking at "They draining everything, we cannot get a board, we cannot get an open look, they're faster...

    They're the better team, almost more pro than college, at least when hitting 3s at that level.

    Thing is, I don't find that it diminishes what we did all year. Not at all. We ran up against a dominant team. I mourn for the players. But we'll be back.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DZ View Post
    Kitz hit it right on the head.

    We looked like the best "college team" in the country in defeating UCLA - I suspect we couldn't beaten Houston in a tough game, too.

    Baylor is on another level for one reason, they are simply bigger stronger and faster at almost every position. When I watched them play Houston, I texted my brother, said "It looks like an NBA team playing a college team" and hoped that we had more quickness and such a flow we'd be okay.

    But from the first two times down the floor, four offensive rebounds to points on 2nd/3rd chances, it was just so clear to me. They are so much bigger and thicker that they're going outmuscle us.

    Our only real hope was if they shot poorly from 3 and they did the opposite.

    The story has been "Gonzaga" all year bc we blew everyone out, right on up through USC. UCLA (A college team) played the perfect game, we won.

    All year it was "Two teams have separated themselves" - that game proved to me that it was only really one. It is not on our guys at all. They probably didn't have as much left in the tank, and those first 3 minutes just ripped their hearts out. Looking at "They draining everything, we cannot get a board, we cannot get an open look, they're faster...

    They're the better team, almost more pro than college, at least when hitting 3s at that level.

    Thing is, I don't find that it diminishes what we did all year. Not at all. We ran up against a dominant team. I mourn for the players. But we'll be back.
    I would add that they were much older much more experienced team that had some future pro players that specifically came back to seek a title.......that focus was laser like and leverage of the older experience showed by the first punch they landed to us and kept it up relentlessly
    Basketball...The Toy Department of Life

    Don't mess wth happy...Coach Few

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    I would add that they were much older much more experienced team that had some future pro players that specifically came back to seek a title.......that focus was laser like and leverage of the older experience showed by the first punch they landed to us and kept it up relentlessly
    Mark Vital is 7 months shy of 25 YO. I'm reminded of the age difference from intramural basketball, undergrads playing law students...a big difference.

    Oumar at his present stage of development would have been dominated by Vital.

    ETA: Based on my recent spanking by the mods, I won't add any comments about our opponents in Provo, Utah.

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