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Thread: Monday Morning Quarterback Thread

  1. #1
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    Default Monday Morning Quarterback Thread

    So the sun still rose and hopefully everyone has had a little time to sleep on it and start thinking about next year.

    This thread is for all the hot takes, insights, observations, critiques and hind sights. Don't be obtuse. If you post something controversial expect to get criticized, don't just keep posting it multiple times in an attempt to your point across.

    My thought this morning: this was the first game this season where I thought we missed Filip. I know he has his detractors in this group, but a potential NBA first rounder at the five would not have hurt.

    ps. and I one-starred it just to take care that
    'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.'
    - Gandalf the Grey

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    Foo Time

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    I would feel a bit better this morning if the game had been close; I felt a helluva lot better the day after the 2017 game. Getting punched in the mouth right out of the gate was my worst fear. I hate that the season ended this way and that these kids, who otherwise had a tremendous season, now just become another footnote in history. Coach Few and the rest of the staff deserve better as well - knowing all the work that has been put in over the last 20+ years its maddening that he still doesn't have a championship.

    The worst feeling, though, was seeing my 9-year old son trying to process what was happening and I was just crushed seeing his reactions. Eventually I had to turn the game off because it was too much for him. I know it is a teachable moment and that there are several life lessons he can hopefully take away from this, but it is still gut-wrenching.

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    I just think Grant nailed it in the first half when talking about how drained they still were nearly a week later in the Final Four after Laettner’s shot in 92. The Zags looked like they were moving in slow motion. Didn’t look like the same team I watched all year. Just got dominated on the post. Suggs was the only one that showed up last night. Anxious to see who comes back for redemption next year. Watching Timme talking to the team after the game, I’d be surprised if he doesn’t return.
    "There is always some kid who may be seeing me for the first time. I owe him my best."--Joe DiMaggio

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    I don’t suppose this is controversial or even very insightful, but it would be difficult to win against almost anyone with a 22-38 rebounding deficit, let alone against a team like Baylor. We knew coming in they were great on the offensive boards, but they really dominated. That led to 18 more shots for Baylor, including a ton of threes. Our 2pt efficiency just wasn’t going to be able to overcome that.


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    A blinding glimpse of the obvious no doubt, but there are any number of highly skilled teams we can (and did) beat this season without bringing our A game.

    Baylor last night was not one of them. Baylor against Iowa State, or in their loss to Kansas? Sure. But not last night.

    I mostly feel bad for the kids. Tough way to end a magnificent season.
    Your children have been placed in the custody of...Carl's Jr.

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    I'm just upset on the way we went out. Hats off to Baylor they outclassed us on every faucet of the game. This was the type of game we needed a Brandon Clarke and rim protection. Our 3 pt shooting was atrocious but we can't win a game against a team like Baylor with turnovers and lack of rebounding. It just sucks to be in that spotlight and have a game like that. If we lost playing like I thought we would I could handle that.
    America's Team!

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    It was not meant to be. Just looking at them physically compared to us was like looking at Men v Boys. They were just more physically mature if you will, bigger. And we had no help for Timme in the middle. We needed another big big to help him out and Watson is too young and immature physically, Ballo and Zahkarov haven't panned out and this indicates Few's shortcoming as a recruiter (surprise). It might have been better for him to get a guard and a big on the transfer portal and this may have helped. Also Greg is too young. Not like other years and this hurt us. Also too, we were a bit flat and this was to be expected after such an exciting game against UCLA and the energy expended in trying to maintain a perfect season. So lets enjoy it and look forward to the future. Just my two cents. Go Zags!

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    Rebounding hasn’t been been an issue all year. Our guards clean up well. And it wasn’t just rebounds in the traditional sense, but loose balls and and odd bounces. We were a step behind. I wonder if it was tired legs or a hangover effect from the UCLA game.

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    Baylor had 3 BIG guys there at the Center. Timme could individually out footwork any of them, but they were able to be uber physical in their play style as they had 15 fouls to give and not much of a drop off between them. If Ballo had turned out how many of us hoped, maybe we could of used him to get some traction, but he didn't.

    The F4 games Baylor was back up to and beyond their averages on 3 point shooting - we could not expect to get back into that game trading 2 points for 3... we just could not get stops.

    Corey did not have a great tournament. He is a great leader and competitor - showed those skills in spades, but his 3 point shot was not on (much due to being guarded at a high level) and his occasional D lapses and rebounding lapses while playing the 4, not his position!

    Our small ball line-up just could not hang with the toughness of these Bears. I think without COVID pause in early Feb - they 'may' have been undefeated as well.

    Finally, that game against UCLA, an absolute classic! But, it took a bunch of energy and emotion from our guys... (seemed Andrew and Joel were the most dazed / taken out... but that's my perception) hard to refocus, no matter the situation.

    So proud of our guys. Just not our night and this is a tough, tough Baylor team that deserved that win last night. If we got to play again - who knows.
    GO ZAGS!!!

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    It was just a rough and sad game. Them getting so hot early on and killing us on the boards really sucked the wind out of our sails on what could have been a competitive game. Im not sure how many we would win out of 10 vs Baylor, but we were definitely the two best teams in the country and I at least wish we got to see Gonzaga play their best game to at least give them more of a sense of pride in the team's final game of the season.

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    When we lose these tournament games, the common thread is that we are out-toughed. I am certainly not the one to criticize because this team out played every team they faced this year with the exception of Baylor but I firmly believe our size and physicality was an issue when it came to rebounding last night. Now here is my criticism/question, why in the world did we not have depth behind Timme? It may be convenient for Mark to keep the rotation short but from my perspective, that hurt us against both UCLA and Baylor. Having two seven footers that seemingly weren’t anymore than chair warmers is a player development issue that rests firmly on the shoulders of the coaching staff.

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    Few is not going to change. He loves a tight, seven man rotation. Full stop.

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    I think they might have weathered the offensive rebounds or the hot shooting, but not both. Butler hit a handful of midrange step-back and quick-trigger 3s that weren’t defensible, really. I also am bemoaning the lack of another big man. To match up in this game, they needed Watson and Timme on the floor together. I’ve always thought Timme played more like a power forward, and he isn’t big enough to occupy a big string player, and he’s not lengthy or athletic enough to gobble up out of area rebounds. Maybe if Kispert could have kept Vital off the boards there might have been a chance.

    It may be that this is a bad matchup and Baylor wins most of these games in a best of 7. I haven’t decided on that one yet. GU was a very consistent team and Baylor has an obviously much lower floor, but maybe their ceiling is higher. It makes it hard to use a single elimination game to determine who the best team is. We know who it was last night, though.

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    I think the guys were half a step slow the first 8-10 minutes, which I attribute to a "Saturday hangover". After that, as stated in another thread, the guys beat Baylor by 3. One really odd thing I noticed, unlike any other game this year, was the unforced ball handling mistakes. Strange dribbling, losing control when unguarded, etc. Baylor had too many fouls to throw at Drew (12 or 13 committed by the 3 Baylor bigs) and really crashed the offensive glass.

    Baylor took 18 more shots than GU..................game, set, and match.

    Regardless of the outcome last night, what a ride. Just think of this fact, GU is 62-3 the past two years, and has been in the F4 two of the last four years. Remarkable.

    Go ZAGS

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    Quote Originally Posted by scott257 View Post
    When we lose these tournament games, the common thread is that we are out-toughed. I am certainly not the one to criticize because this team out played every team they faced this year with the exception of Baylor but I firmly believe our size and physicality was an issue when it came to rebounding last night. Now here is my criticism/question, why in the world did we not have depth behind Timme? It may be convenient for Mark to keep the rotation short but from my perspective, that hurt us against both UCLA and Baylor. Having two seven footers that seemingly weren’t anymore than chair warmers is a player development issue that rests firmly on the shoulders of the coaching staff.
    Oumar's best game of the year was against WVU, scored 11 points IIRC. After that, his development was stymied by injuries. However, I think he would have been overmatched against Baylor, and that's an area Oumar needs to develop: intensity. I'm not complaining, he's 18 YO, and Baylor's bigs were grown men.

    On a more positive note, here's a look at the money the Zags have brought in since 2016, and those initial funds have another year to go IIRC...the money is spread over six years.

    2015 - 4
    2016 - 3
    2017 - 5 (no credit for NC game)
    2018 - 3
    2019 - 4
    2021 - 5

    Total - 24 * 1,700,000 = 41 million (rounded), or close to 7 million a year. I don't know how much we get under the revised agreement with the WCC, but it's still a windfall for the WCC.

    I don't expect the WCC to consistently have 3 teams in the Dance, but it's imperative we get two in every year. SMC is usually in the running, but BYU with its size and resources has little excuse for not being an at large every year.

    By comparison, the Big 10 must have brought in over 30 million from this year's tournament alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    Oumar's best game of the year was against WVU, scored 11 points IIRC. After that, his development was stymied by injuries. However, I think he would have been overmatched against Baylor, and that's an area Oumar needs to develop: intensity. I'm not complaining, he's 18 YO, and Baylor's bigs were grown men.
    I did forget about his injury but the bottom line is we didn’t have a player with the size and strength to spell Timme. If Timme doesn’t return, do we expect Oumar to be that guy next season? Who will be his backup? I know Holmgren has size but he hasn’t committed yet and he doesn’t look like a kid we would expect to be playing that role (I could be wrong). Zakharov is just another player that I had thought might develop but we really haven’t seen him play any meaningful minutes. I certainly hope Timme returns but if he doesn’t this problem may be worse next year.

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    Covid cost us an even better shot at the title last year.

    We didn't have Suggs, but we had a frontline of Tillie, Petrusev, and Timme. Corey was better suited as a SF or SG, not as our 4. Our guards included two experienced grad transfers in Woolridge and Gilder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    Covid cost us an even better shot at the title last year.

    We didn't have Suggs, but we had a frontline of Tillie, Petrusev, and Timme. Corey was better suited as a SF or SG, not as our 4. Our guards included two experienced grad transfers in Woolridge and Gilder.
    Those are the dudes that I feel bad for. I guarantee they would take twice the heartbreak of last night if it meant they could have played in the tournament.
    'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.'
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    My biggest issue and it’s not really his fault but Corey”s shot leaving him in the tournament hurt us the most in this game. Much like Baylor, once one 3 goes in it becomes contagious. More than one goes down and it feeds that confidence. We didn’t play with our usual swagger and a lot of that had to do with 3s not going in. Add in the fact we were playing catch up and I think it took its toll, especially after the emotion of Saturday.

    Anton didn’t play as well in the final two that he did in the first three. He needs to rebound better but Baylor did a nice job of pulling both bugs away from the basket leaving our guards to rebound.

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    We ultimately just got out toughed, by a significant degree. If you look at the last time we played them, just a couple years ago they also got a lot of offensive boards: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...meId/401123429. However, I think it's hard to get out toughed with someone like Clarke on the team, who absolutely dominated Vital in that game and took it right back at them. Timme is a very creative post player with a lot of moves, but not the athletic big that gave Baylor a ton of issues last time. Obviously Baylor has more bigs now, but I still think someone like Clarke would punish them for playing small most of the time.

    I think Baylor's defensive objective was pretty simple. Chase Gonzaga off the 3 point line, because they probably felt that was the only way they could really lose (if we hit a ton of 3's). On offense I felt we switched too easily, they would take almost the entire 30 seconds every offensive set and would get every matchup they wanted. They would have a screener literally jog by sometimes, do absolutely nothing and we'd still switch. I understand why we switch a lot but at least make them earn it.

    Also, while Baylor fought for every board, we barely did. After a miss we'd sometimes have 0 players go for the offensive board. For as good an offensive rebounding team they are, they are actually not a great defensive rebounding team so I don't know why we didn't try more. We knew they'd play out almost the entire 30 seconds so what's the point of getting back? Meanwhile, they left almost everyone to go for a rebound every time. The way you beat that is being in good rebounding position and pushing the ball to punish them for not getting back, but we were awful at boxing out. They dominated even Houston on the glass, a team whose whole offensive identity was rebounding so it probably shouldn't have been a huge surprise.

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    This years Zags was one of the best college teams ever.

    I thought that the Baylor game could go any of three ways:
    Zags could win by a bunch.
    Baylor could win by a bunch.
    It could be a mailboxes all the way.

    As it turned out, it was Baylor's day. But I still think that if they played 10 times the Zags would win 6.

    Both teams are really good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GU69 View Post
    This years Zags was one of the best college teams ever.

    I thought that the Baylor game could go any of three ways:
    Zags could win by a bunch.
    Baylor could win by a bunch.
    It could be a mailboxes all the way.

    As it turned out, it was Baylor's day. But I still think that if they played 10 times the Zags would win 6.

    Both teams are really good.
    +1

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    It was a very entertaining season with each player having a distinct personality and remarkable skills...... a joy to watch...

    The coaches will probably get a raise and the players probably have already moved on.... with 70 years of life in front of them.....including getting paid to play basketball if that is their desire...

    As Few has said....the best two days of the basketball season are the day it starts and the day it ends.... in is Spring.... a time of new beginnings...

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    We ultimately just got out toughed, by a significant degree. If you look at the last time we played them, just a couple years ago they also got a lot of offensive boards: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...meId/401123429. However, I think it's hard to get out toughed with someone like Clarke on the team, who absolutely dominated Vital in that game and took it right back at them. Timme is a very creative post player with a lot of moves, but not the athletic big that gave Baylor a ton of issues last time. Obviously Baylor has more bigs now, but I still think someone like Clarke would punish them for playing small most of the time.

    I think Baylor's defensive objective was pretty simple. Chase Gonzaga off the 3 point line, because they probably felt that was the only way they could really lose (if we hit a ton of 3's). On offense I felt we switched too easily, they would take almost the entire 30 seconds every offensive set and would get every matchup they wanted. They would have a screener literally jog by sometimes, do absolutely nothing and we'd still switch. I understand why we switch a lot but at least make them earn it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tempe85 View Post
    So, while Baylor fought for every board, we barely did. After a miss we'd sometimes have 0 players go for the offensive board. For as good an offensive rebounding team they are, they are actually not a great defensive rebounding team so I don't know why we didn't try more. We knew they'd play out almost the entire 30 seconds so what's the point of getting back? Meanwhile, they left almost everyone to go for a rebound every time. The way you beat that is being in good rebounding position and pushing the ball to punish them for not getting back, but we were awful at boxing out. They dominated even Houston on the glass, a team whose whole offensive identity was rebounding so it probably shouldn't have been a huge surprise.
    ++ Agreed. Baylor attacked the basket on both ends.

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    This morning, I had two thoughts on my mind. We always hear that the WCC doesn’t prepare us for big games in the tournament. I’m wondering if that is true, but not because we of the competition. We always seem to run in to two things that we don’t see in the WCC Season:
    1. Big arenas/stadiums which I have to wonder the affect on our shooting from distance. Yes, BYU has a huge gym but it was meant for basketball. We always seem to shoot poorly from 3 in the football stadiums.
    2. Officiating that allows physical play (and no, I’m not blaming officiating for the loss as it was fairly consistent). For instanc, Timme was mugged throughout the first half of every time he was trying to establish position. If a WCC crew officiated last night’s game, we would have been watching walkons from both teams playing in the first half.

    I really don’t have answers to either question, just wondering out loud.

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