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Thread: Zags have gotten very handsy on D

  1. #1
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    Default Zags have gotten very handsy on D

    This team has become very physical with their hands on defense. While it results in some fouls, it also leads to steals and the resultant fast break. I wonder whether this is unique to this team or whether it has been a point of coaching emphasis, having learned from the tournament (West Virginia and of course Texas Tech) that this reaching will be more allowed.

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    I’d assumed it was just do to the personnel and their own style (Suggs, Watson) and hadn’t thought of it being coached that way. I have no idea but am now also curious.

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    I have no inside information on any coaching differences. But Suggs is an elite defensive player. That rubs off on the other players AND the refs. Seems like refs are more likely to give the rest of the team the benefit of the doubt when you have a Suggs leading the defense.

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    I noticed a few games where teams were getting very physical on defense. It felt like Texas Tech circa 2019 and FSU 2018. In particular, the Baylor/Villanova game seemed like Baylor was committing numerous fouls each defensive possession. I guess that's what commentators call "mucking up the game," but to me, it's just fouling a lot. Hey, if the refs aren't calling it, couldn't hurt to "muck up" opposing offenses.
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    Go Zags!!!

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    It started with the arrival of Jalen and Andrew, and the rest of the team has fed off that. The increased physicality has turned the Zags into a historic team.

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    Admittedly, the hands should always be up to obstruct passing lanes and vision, but fundamentally, you play defense with your feet. Fouls typically come from being late with the feet and over compensating with the hands.

    Having said that, the referees are allowing players to reach in at a level I have not seen before and the biggest indicator is how often the possession arrow has come in to play. It is happening in almost every post season game I watch. I don't ever recall so many defenders successfully "reaching in" to force the "tie up" call. It isn't just with Gonzaga where hands are coming into play. It is happening in every game, with every team.

    Kudos to the Zags for quickly adapting to the evolution of the game.
    I miss Mike Hart

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    It started with the arrival of Jalen and Andrew, and the rest of the team has fed off that. The increased physicality has turned the Zags into a historic team.
    hmmm watson was that way last year until he got injured
    cook plays that way as well
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    I may be wrong in this, and I'll have to watch more closely next time, but it seems to me that guards on teams like Baylor have their hands and forearms on the ball handler constantly, to interfere with their movement and slow them down, whereas the Zag guards aren't touching the ball handlers as much and are reaching for the ball.

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    I like it when it works. Those fast break steals are a thing of beauty.
    One of the greatest stories in basketball history...Gonzaga!

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    I think it has to do with a couple different reasons.

    1. We haven't had on ball defenders as good and as athletic as the ones that we have right now.
    2. I think the team wants more ball pressure because of the lack of rim protection that Gonzaga gets from Timme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scrooner View Post
    I may be wrong in this, and I'll have to watch more closely next time, but it seems to me that guards on teams like Baylor have their hands and forearms on the ball handler constantly, to interfere with their movement and slow them down, whereas the Zag guards aren't touching the ball handlers as much and are reaching for the ball.
    I think you are right and it's a key distinction, and with the 2 hand stuff in particular

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    Also, the Dance is officiated differently than WCC games. Lots more contact allowed, and the ZAGS have adjusted defensively. Nowhere near this level of physical defense is allowed in WCC play. Kudos to the guys (and staff) for adjusting and increasing the intensity of the D.

    Go ZAGS

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    I’ve never seen a big man with hands as quick as Anton’s.

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    After years of being victims of handsy defenses, we decided to adapt. Good coaching combined with the talent to get away with it. Let the losers b*tch, but better them than us.

    I do agree with MickMick's observation about possession arrow. Too many of those ties ups come after about 3 fouls are committed. Would like to see that stop getting rewarded by refs.

    ZZ

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    We are not grabbing or holding or physically assaulting the other teams like Texas Tech or somewhat WVU we are slapping at the ball much more and this is leading to turnovers.some teams and their coach should be arrested! T. Tech is full of

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    We are not grabbing or holding or physically assaulting the other teams like Texas Tech or somewhat WVU we are slapping at the ball much more and this is leading to turnovers.some teams and their coach should be arrested! T. Tech is full of

    Gangsters turned loose by Beard!
    Bubba Beard?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    We are not grabbing or holding or physically assaulting the other teams like Texas Tech or somewhat WVU we are slapping at the ball much more and this is leading to turnovers.some teams and their coach should be arrested! T. Tech is full of

    Gangsters turned loose by Beard!
    Clamping down, cutting off passing opportunities and forcing bad passes along with the hands add up to great defense that is much more effective at discombobulating our opponents than physical assaults.
    Bonjour tristesse.

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    just rewatched and sorry, Zags are not more handsy. Looked exactly like what scrooner said

    Joel handsy? no. Nemby? no. Is it more physicsal? yes. But that is different than pushing with 2 hands on every catch, or every time someone dribbles by you. It's different and you can see it.

    Zags are physical, tough, banging, but not handsy like Baylor, for example

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    What is being coached is where they are applying aggressive defensive pressure. The Zags look to really pressure in situations that lead to fast break points. When the opponents are just bring the ball down to get into their offense is a prime opportunity for aggression. They have all their players going the wrong way when the turnover occurs. That is one example.
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    seemed to me that Texas Tech was hitting arms and wrists of our ball handlers throughout the game. Refs called a lot at first and got tired of pushing against that tide. When refs call more fouls on one team a lot more than the other team, even if it is valid, the opponents raise the uproar of unfairness. If evol of the game allows texas tech handsiness, then we should adopt it. Any system that starts allowing what was previously cheating on a general scale can make a fool of those who don't adapt to the new standard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitzbuel View Post
    What is being coached is where they are applying aggressive defensive pressure. The Zags look to really pressure in situations that lead to fast break points. When the opponents are just bring the ball down to get into their offense is a prime opportunity for aggression. They have all their players going the wrong way when the turnover occurs. That is one example.
    Yeah, and they also do it even after the ball's crossed the half-court line and the offense looks to be setting up, the moment an opponent starts backing off or going toward a sideline for relief, it results in an automatic double team/trap, at then as the opponent tries to get out of trouble by passing to a teammate, our faster/longer guys have already read the likely first pass and are leaving their guy to jump the passing lanes.

    It is beautiful to watch and not just bc it results in a lot of turnovers but one can just "see" how it frustrates the other team, it's like "these guys won't even let us set up!"

    I frigging love it.
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    Zags playing aggressive physical disruptive man to man TEAM defense....switching screens reacting on mismatches.....smart athletic defense...occasional change up zone and press....defense and skilled smart purposeful passing travel well.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by DZ View Post
    Yeah, and they also do it even after the ball's crossed the half-court line and the offense looks to be setting up, the moment an opponent starts backing off or going toward a sideline for relief, it results in an automatic double team/trap, at then as the opponent tries to get out of trouble by passing to a teammate, our faster/longer guys have already read the likely first pass and are leaving their guy to jump the passing lanes.

    It is beautiful to watch and not just bc it results in a lot of turnovers but one can just "see" how it frustrates the other team, it's like "these guys won't even let us set up!"

    I frigging love it.
    Few had interesting comments on this. Apparently there are two levels of intensity. The first level is to merely make the opponent use up shot clock and disrupt offensive flow. Then for the next level, quoting Few, "We dial it up" to get the turnovers and transition game rolling.
    I miss Mike Hart

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    Quote Originally Posted by MickMick View Post
    Few had interesting comments on this. Apparently there are two levels of intensity. The first level is to merely make the opponent use up shot clock and disrupt offensive flow. Then for the next level, quoting Few, "We dial it up" to get the turnovers and transition game rolling.
    Interesting. Thx.

    It sure isn't hard to tell when it is dialed up.

    The full court trap seemed to really bother Oklahoma. And then really really bother USC, even though USC 38 days to prepare for it, or at least it seemed like 38 days for us waiting.
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