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Thread: Rules Questions

  1. #1
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    Default Rules Questions

    A couple of rules questions for those on the board that are smarter than I, which is basically everyone...

    When a player shoots the ball, it's an airball, defensive player gets the airball, is that a rebound or a steal?

    When a player shoots the ball, is fouled on the shot, misses the shot, but is going to the freethrow line, does that count as a shot attempt?

    These are probably easy answers, but I'm curious about these... Any insight you can share would be appreciated.

    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike#1 View Post
    A couple of rules questions for those on the board that are smarter than I, which is basically everyone...

    When a player shoots the ball, it's an airball, defensive player gets the airball, is that a rebound or a steal?

    Rebound

    When a player shoots the ball, is fouled on the shot, misses the shot, but is going to the freethrow line, does that count as a shot attempt?

    No shot attempt.

    These are probably easy answers, but I'm curious about these... Any insight you can share would be appreciated.

    Thanks!
    ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike#1 View Post
    A couple of rules questions for those on the board that are smarter than I, which is basically everyone...

    When a player shoots the ball, it's an airball, defensive player gets the airball, is that a rebound or a steal?

    When a player shoots the ball, is fouled on the shot, misses the shot, but is going to the freethrow line, does that count as a shot attempt?

    These are probably easy answers, but I'm curious about these... Any insight you can share would be appreciated.

    Thanks!
    Rebound

    No

    But I could be wrong.

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    Thanks 23. I appreciate it.

    What about when a shot is blocked, another defender get's the loose ball after the blocked shot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike#1 View Post
    Thanks 23. I appreciate it.

    What about when a shot is blocked, another defender get's the loose ball after the blocked shot?
    Rebound

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    Thanks again 23 and TZF.

    As I said, most probably knew these, but I did not know, so I figured I'd ask here, rather than attempting to look it up.

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    Another question; When Kispert was called for the over and back it looked to me like he had his feet on the right side of the line only his upper body was across the time line. Am I wrong? or was that a blown call. It was somewhat crucial in that OU was making a run IIRC.
    Birddog

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birddog View Post
    Another question; When Kispert was called for the over and back it looked to me like he had his feet on the right side of the line only his upper body was across the time line. Am I wrong? or was that a blown call. It was somewhat crucial in that OU was making a run IIRC.
    I saw it as a blown call. Looked to me that both feet were behind the half court line before he jumped to save the over and back ball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike#1 View Post
    I saw it as a blown call. Looked to me that both feet were behind the half court line before he jumped to save the over and back ball.
    My only context is football, where a punt only has to cross the goal line to be ruled a touchback, where as a receiver can keep his feet inbounds on a sideline pass play.

    In hoops I don't know if it's the feet or the plane of the midcourt line that defines (over and back). If it's the plane of the midcourt line, the call was correct. If it's the feet, as has already been pointed out ... it was a bad call. Regardless, fumble fingers were involved on our part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
    My only context is football, where a punt only has to cross the goal line to be ruled a touchback, where as a receiver can keep his feet inbounds on a sideline pass play.

    In hoops I don't know if it's the feet or the plane of the midcourt line that defines (over and back). If it's the plane of the midcourt line, the call was correct. If it's the feet, as has already been pointed out ... it was a bad call. Regardless, fumble fingers were involved on our part.
    It can't be the plane, because it happens all the time where a player is part across but never wholly across and then withdraws before ultimately crossing without a whistle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagricultural View Post
    It can't be the plane, because it happens all the time where a player is part across but never wholly across and then withdraws before ultimately crossing without a whistle.
    You reference "the player". Isn't it "the ball"? I don't have a definitive answer but I'm confident that someone who will read this thread does.

    “To be continued …”. Fr Tony Lehman, SJ
    ——-
    Some cherry picked stats

    Most NCAA TOURNAMENT wins since 2015
    Gonzaga 20, Nova 17, UNC 16, Duke 15, Kentucky 13, Michigan 13, Virginia 11, Baylor 9
    -----
    Most FINAL FOUR wins since 2017
    UNC 2, Nova 2, Virginia 2, Baylor 2, Gonzaga 2, Michigan 1, TexasTech 1, Kentucky 0, Duke 0, Kansas 0

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birddog View Post
    Another question; When Kispert was called for the over and back it looked to me like he had his feet on the right side of the line only his upper body was across the time line. Am I wrong? or was that a blown call. It was somewhat crucial in that OU was making a run IIRC.
    - i watched that play last night in slow motion several times. kispert did not step on the center line. it was a blown call. worse i watched the referee and he was moving away from the play, had his eyes to his right, not the left, and when he looked back to the play his vision was blocked by another zag player. in other words he committed a cardinal sin in basketball refereeing, 'do not guess'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birddog View Post
    Another question; When Kispert was called for the over and back it looked to me like he had his feet on the right side of the line only his upper body was across the time line. Am I wrong? or was that a blown call. It was somewhat crucial in that OU was making a run IIRC.
    I originally thought Kispert had saved it, but when I replayed in slow motion a couple of times it I saw that the ball bounced on the midcourt line before Kispert could save it. The refs were correct with the over and back call.
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    - here are a couple of other quirky rules with regards to stats

    - when you miss a free throw, but you get a second opportunity due to a lane violation (as happened to drew) the missed attempt does not count as an attempted free throw.
    - but here is the whopper that surprises me. when a player attempts a half court or 3/4 curt attempt just before the buzzer, a miss does not count as a 3 point attempt in the stats book. yet if successful it does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bocco View Post
    I originally thought Kispert had saved it, but when I replayed in slow motion a couple of times it I saw that the ball bounced on the midcourt line before Kispert could save it. The refs were correct with the over and back call.
    except it does not matter where the ball is it matters where the player has established his position on the court front court or back court ball can be bouncing in back court and you can reach out and grab it so long as you are established in the front court...only over back when you establish court position in back court

    need three points to establish position ball and both feet
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
    You reference "the player". Isn't it "the ball"? I don't have a definitive answer but I'm confident that someone who will read this thread does.
    Apparently, even since Corey jumped into the air before touching the ball, he still had 'front court' status. Thus the status of the ball changed to front court one he touched it. He then landed in the back court, causing the violation. Found this explanation and had to extrapolate a bit.

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    I've never seen this but it's going to happen someday: end of half or game, player
    shoots from beyond half court, high arcing shot, falls way short, bounces on hardwood,
    goes into basket. It should count as 3 points, correct?

  18. #18
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    - bocco would be correct (i wrong) IF the ball touched the back court after kispert tried to pass the ball back into the front court.

    - pulling out my referee rule book. when a player is moving from backcourt into frontcourt, he has not established frontcourt position until both feet and the ball are in front court (correct hoopahlic)
    - BUT, when a player is already in frontcourt, only 1 foot (toe) or the ball need touch the centerline, in which now backcourt position has been established.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPW314159 View Post
    I've never seen this but it's going to happen someday: end of half or game, player
    shoots from beyond half court, high arcing shot, falls way short, bounces on hardwood,
    goes into basket. It should count as 3 points, correct?
    If it hits the court after the buzzer, it’s not counted.
    If it hits inside the arc before the buzzer, it’s 2 points.
    If it hits outside the arc before the buzzer, it’s 3 points.

    Not 100% sure but pretty sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPW314159 View Post
    I've never seen this but it's going to happen someday: end of half or game, player
    shoots from beyond half court, high arcing shot, falls way short, bounces on hardwood,
    goes into basket. It should count as 3 points, correct?

    1. lets say the shot is in the air, the final horn sounds, the ball strikes the floor at the free throw line and bounces in and through the basket. no points allowed, as the 'try' ended when the ball struck the floor, at which time there is no time on the clock, so even though the ball goes through the basket, no score is counted.
    2. same situation but there is no final end of game horn until after the ball ounces to the floor and goes through the basket. in this case you score the basket, but only for 2 points. the three point shot ended when the ball struck the floor. but a 2 point basket can be counted as the ball went thru the basket, as long as it was not touched by any player after it struck the floor.

    edit: no just 2 points, regardless of where the ball struck the floor. the key is the 3 point attempt for a try has ended once the ball strikes the floor, and the bouncing ball while it can score a basket, is not considered a 'try' for goal. only a 'try' for a 3 point goal can score 3 points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GonzaGAW View Post
    - bocco would be correct (i wrong) IF the ball touched the back court after kispert tried to pass the ball back into the front court.

    - pulling out my referee rule book. when a player is moving from backcourt into frontcourt, he has not established frontcourt position until both feet and the ball are in front court (correct hoopahlic)
    - BUT, when a player is already in frontcourt, only 1 foot (toe) or the ball need touch the centerline, in which now backcourt position has been established.
    and that is what happened, the ball bounced on the centerline prior to Corey leaning over the centerline and passing the ball back to the front court
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bocco View Post
    and that is what happened, the ball bounced on the centerline prior to Corey leaning over the centerline and passing the ball back to the front court
    ahhh I didnt think nor realize the ball entered back court (touching of line) I thought they had called Corey for over back when he jumped up to grab ball and threw back before landing in back court
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    Quote Originally Posted by GonzaGAW View Post
    - bocco would be correct (i wrong) IF the ball touched the back court after kispert tried to pass the ball back into the front court.

    - pulling out my referee rule book. when a player is moving from backcourt into frontcourt, he has not established frontcourt position until both feet and the ball are in front court (correct hoopahlic)
    - BUT, when a player is already in frontcourt, only 1 foot (toe) or the ball need touch the centerline, in which now backcourt position has been established.
    going to agree to disagree on the second bullet point...ball in back court after being in front court does not make automatic over and back call and case in point is ball thrown from front court to back court and you see it bouncing you dont blow whistle the minute it touches back court you blow the whistle when the offensive player establishes feet in back court and touches the ball you must have three points before over and back can be called..........
    Basketball...The Toy Department of Life

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    - i do not think we need disagree, hoopaholic, it is perhaps more a matter of a nuance of how the ball is touched.

    - once a ball that had been in frontcourt touches the centerline or goes into the backcourt, 'caused' by an offensive player, it becomes a back court violation if it is first 'touched' by an offensive player. the violation occurs with the 'touching' of the ball. now typically such 'touching' is as your illustration shows, the players feet are also in the backcourt. but the rule book does not require a foot or two feet to be in contact with the backcourt when the illegal 'touching' occurs. thus if a player is in front court near the centerline, but standing in frontcourt leans over the centerline and dribbles the ball in backcourt, he has caused the ball to go into the backcourt and also becomes the first offensive player to touch the ball while it had backcourt status. a violation. this is the same as your illustration. i.e. offensive player caused the ball to be in the backcourt and an offensive player was the first to touch the ball while it had backcourt status. but in each case it is a violation as the ball had backcourt status and was first 'touched' by an offensive player.
    - another illustration of the backcourt violation showing a violation does not require two feet and the ball to be in the backcourt, is when we often see an offensive player receive an in bound pass near the centerline, yet in the front court, the player if close to the centerline 'acts' as if he is on a high wire, trying to keep his balance as he knows if even one toe touches the centerline it is a violation. just one toe, not two feet and the ball.

    - again not so much a disagreement as a matter of nuance, and yes most backcourt violations are called when a player is standing in backcourt and touches the ball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 23dpg View Post
    Rebound
    Why do we not always get the ball to start the second half,when we lose the jump to start??

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