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Thread: 2021 Wbb NCAA Tournament - General Discussion

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    Default 2021 Wbb NCAA Tournament - General Discussion

    Here is an interesting article from ESPNW:

    Women's Basketball Tournament 2021: Ranking all 64 teams in the Bracket
    Charlie Creme
    ESPN.com

    Which teams won't be around for long in the 2021 NCAA women's basketball tournament? Which teams are expected to have extended stays in the San Antonio area? Now that we've got a bracket in hand, it's time to rank all 64 teams in the field. Before the first round tips off Sunday and Monday, let's look at the ceiling for each team, what could derail their March Madness (and your Women's Tournament Challenge bracket) and which teams have the best chance of cutting down the nets at the Alamodome on April 4.

    47. Belmont Bruins

    Best case: Riding high from her brilliant rookie season that included OVC freshman of the year and tournament MVP honors, 5-6 Destinee Wells plays brilliantly in the first round. Belmont is the talk of the tournament for about an hour -- until a Bruins shot at the buzzer just misses, ruining their chances of a first-round upset.

    Worst case: Somebody reminds both Wells and backcourtmate Tuti Jones before the game that they are, in fact, freshman, and they play like it. Belmont's stay is short and unmemorable.

    18. Gonzaga Bulldogs

    Best case: Senior Jill Townsend, fresh off the winning shot against BYU in the WCC championship game, more than makes up for lost tournament time. In 2019, Townsend broke her leg in the WCC tournament and had to watch on television as her Gonzaga teammates lost a close game at Oregon State in the second round. With a pair of 20-point games, Townsend makes sure the Zags stay is a little longer and they advance to their first Sweet 16 since 2015.

    Worst case: Defense and rebounding, Gonzaga's two calling cards during the season, aren't as sharp in San Antonio. Experience and Townsend get the Zags through one win, but not two.
    You can read about all 64 teams here: https://www.espn.com/womens-college-...-teams-bracket

    ZagDad

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    The GU girls, as noted above, should handily dispatch the Bruins, but I don't think they will. Belmont plays a scrappy, energetic (if undersized) defense that will give turnover prone GU fits. If the Zags have one of their frequent off-nights from beyond the arc, if the Wirths & Melody miss 4 or 5 bunnies (not unheard of) & the team has one of those games where they convert 60% of their free throws, we are going down.

    As much as I applaud the record the Zags have put together so far, can't help thinking they might have done even better. They could, like the men's side, be undefeated. What a story that would have been, eh? They had So. Carolina, let em get away. Terrible, end game defense vs SoDak St cost them the W. BYU game in Provo lost with 2d half bad shot selection. They didn't win those games, IMO, because, despite a senior-laden lineup, this team lacks leadership. As Gertrude Stein famously said about Oakland, CA: "There's no there, there." That's the story with this team. Wouldn't expect the Wirth's to assume the role. Maybe one of them? Jill seems a likely candidate, but, so far, she's just been hard on herself, not on some of her team mates when they get careless protecting the ball, make low percentage passes into the post, commit silly fouls, or start clanking free throws.

    Too late, probably, to change things at this point. Be surprised, and grateful, if they get past Belmont.

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    I was hoping that we would get some support for our Lady Zags from some of our posters, but alas, we seem to have gone into hibernation once again.

    Where to start Upan8th?

    Yes the Lady Zags could certainly lose to Belmont. Anytime a 3-point shooting team gets hot, the higher ranked team could be in trouble. The Lady Zags last year in St. Mary's, The Zag Mbb against Wyoming and Davidson in the NCAA tournament. Gonzaga could play a decent game and still lose, it happens. Gonzaga, turnover prone, certainly, at times. However, for the year, the Bulldogs average less than 1 turnover per game more than Belmont (14.7 vs 13.8), hardly, earth shattering. As far as missing the bunnies and free throws, Gonzaga shoots better overall, from 3 and from the free throw line than the Bears. It is just as, or more likely, that Belmont will have the shooting woes than Gonzaga. I will cover both the Zags and the Bears more thoroughly in a new thread in a couple of days.

    So you are disappointed that the Lady Zags are not perfect on the season and postulate that it is due a lack of team leadership? Hmmmmmm, maybe allow me to present a different set of explanations (excuses, etc. as you like) for the record of the current Zags.

    The Lady Zags have three (3) losses this season by a total of 15 points to three (3) different teams all of which are in the NCAA tournament. All of the losses occurred either at a neutral site (South Carolina) or at the opposition's home court (South Dakota State & BYU). Two of the 3 losses occurred in the first 3 games, so the Lady Zags are running on a 22-1 streak over their last 23 games.

    South Carolina (#1 team in the country at the time), yes we had a lead with 3 minutes or so to go and we ended up losing the game by seven. It could have been a lack of team leadership, as you suggested, afterall it was the Zags first game and South Carolina's 3rd game. Gonzaga was still figuring out their team in game 1, so yes it was possible that their was a lack of team leadership which would have been understandable. However, maybe a bigger reason the Zags lost is that they were not in "game" shape. You can only do so much in training and practice and you need to be on the court against opposition (not your teammates) to get into game shape. With three minutes to go, the Zags simply ran out of gas, shots fall short, defense is a step slow, etc. Nothing to be ashamed of. Maybe it was because USC shot 41 free throws compared to GU's 13 free throws. May it was due to the fact that USC shot 48.1% overall, 40.0% from 3 and 61% from the charity stripe when in the very next game against NC State, the Gamecocks shot 27.0% overall, 16.7% from 3 and 36.4% from the free throw line. Had USC shot any one of the percentages they shot against NC State, against GU, the Lady Zags would have won the game. Yes, lack of team leadership, particularly in game 1, could have been part of the problem, but I think the loss was more likely due to tired legs and and excessive number of free throws shot by USC and maybe just because USC is one of the best teams in the country.

    South Dakota State has not lost at home all year and when they played the Lady Zags it was in Brookings. The Zags had a 2 point lead at halftime, the Jackrabbits had a 1 point lead after the 3rd quarter. The Zags actually had to outscore South Dakota State in the 4th quarter to send the game into overtime. Gonzaga shot 20% from 3 and 66.7% from the free throw line and had they shot better from either the 3 point line or from the free throw line, they would have won. Had the defense played tighter on the perimeter, USDS would not have shot 44% from 3. I would speculate that it was poor shooting combined with a slightly lax defense which led to the defeat in Brookings, not a lack of senior leadership.

    Finally, the loss in Provo to the Cougars. This loss is probably the best argument for a lack of senior leadership. However, I would say that the 17% overall shooting by JT, LW, CW and AOC was the more likely the cause of the defeat. It is hard to imagine that three starters and a first off the bench player could all shoot that bad on the same day, but it happened. I would also add that without the heroics by JW (senior leadership?) in the last 3-1/2 minutes, the loss would have been much greater. I would also place a significant portion of the loss on coach CLF, who, in her fashion, stubbornly refused to change her offensive scheme or offensive personnel when 3/5's of her team couldn't make a basket. If Plan "A" is not working, you have an obligation to move to Plan "B" to give your team their best opportunity to win and CLF did not do it.

    As far as team leadership goes, I think the last game in Las Vegas says it all. Against the 2nd ranked team in the conference and the team that handed you your only loss in the last 23 games (and kept you from going undefeated in league), you had to play the game down 6 players, 3 starters, only 2 of which could play for short stretches at a time. The two players who each had two bags of IVs, so they could play at all were, yes seniors. The depleted Zags held BYU to 42 points, 28 points under their season average with a large assist from an emerging freshman, Yvonne Ejim. When it came time to take and make the shot for the WCC championship, it was designed for JT and Townsend, hit her only shot of the game for the victory. That my friend, is true senior leadership.

    Belmont, has the coaching staff and players to take down the Zags. I think JT, JW and the rest of the Lady Zags are not quite ready to come home, just yet. I think they beat the Bruins and gear up for the Hoosiers.

    ZagDad
    Last edited by ZagDad84; 03-18-2021 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Bruins not Bears

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    Always respect your input, ZD. And your enthusiasm. Would be more than happy to eat crow if the Wirths & JT combine for forty points vs Belmont. If they don't, though, the Truongs, Yvonne & MK won't score enough to pull out a win. The SENIORS need to lead by example; need to be indomitable. The others will follow. I haven't seen it yet. Seems like the BYU win was more a case of the Cougs Couging it than GU taking the W from them.

    I think a lot of posters are skeptical about this year's team & that's why there hasn't been more input. Hoping for a total team effort Monday followed by a run past IU. That should make it interesting around here, & get the young women out from under the deep shade being cast on them by the Men's team's historic run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by upan8th View Post
    Always respect your input, ZD. And your enthusiasm. Would be more than happy to eat crow if the Wirths & JT combine for forty points vs Belmont. If they don't, though, the Truongs, Yvonne & MK won't score enough to pull out a win. The SENIORS need to lead by example; need to be indomitable. The others will follow. I haven't seen it yet. Seems like the BYU win was more a case of the Cougs Couging it than GU taking the W from them.

    I think a lot of posters are skeptical about this year's team & that's why there hasn't been more input. Hoping for a total team effort Monday followed by a run past IU. That should make it interesting around here, & get the young women out from under the deep shade being cast on them by the Men's team's historic run.
    If you compare the season stats of Belmont vs the Lady Zags you will see that they are very similar, except the Zags are better in almost every category (except steals an turnovers). I will put a game analysis together in another day or so.

    The Belmont tournament games were televised on ESPN+ so I took the time to watch the Belmont vs UT Martin championship game. Belmont is well coached and has good ball movement especially for a starting team with 2 Freshman guards. Defensively, Belmont put their pressure on UT Martin through double teams. Single player pressure was rarely applied. Belmont got most of their steals from behind or double teams. Belmont did have all sorts of trouble when UT Martin threw a full court press at the Bruins in the last 3 minutes. The freshman guards (and post) were simply overwhelmed with the press and almost let UT Martin back in the game. If you remember what Tennessee did to the Lady Zags in the Spokane Arena, you will have an idea what UT Martin did to Belmont.

    Belmont has nobody like Myah Pace (USD) or Valerie Higgins (Pacific) that will simply take the ball from the Zag Guards. To put it into perspective with what Zag fans may recognize, Destinee Wells (Belmont star guard) may be somewhat near as quick as Shaylee Gonzales (of BYU) but is no where near as accomplished on the offensive side of the ball. Defensively, Shalyee is much more complete. Tuti Jones (Belmont Freshman Guard) is probably a reasonable approximation of Maria Albiero of BYU, but certainly no better and certainly less experience. Jamilyn Kinney (Belmont Jr. Guard) is totally outclassed by Paisley Harding in all aspects of the game. Harding is more physical, comparable ball handler, larger offensive arsenal and a much better defensive player. Conley Chinn (Belmot Jr. Forward 6'1") is a good player with a shooting range out past the 3 point line. Compared to Lauren Gustin of BYU, Chin has it all over Gustin from the free throw line out to the 3 point line. I think Gustin is better offensively inside the 3 point line. Defensively their is no comparison, Gustin is more physical, will more easily post-up and rebounds much better. Alison Luly (Belmont Forward 6'1") is essentially a duplicate of Conley Chinn. She did not play as much in the UT Martin Game because she was in significant foul trouble.

    Generally speaking, I think that Santa Clara is as good a representation of Belmont as there is in the WCC. They shoot the ball well, are undersized in the key and overachieve by playing good team ball on both sides of the court.

    Nothing to be afraid of but if not taken seriously, they can beat you.

    ZagDad

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    Here is a link to a digital copy of the NCAA Wbb Tournament Program.

    Digital Program Link: https://d1dhn91mufybwl.cloudfront.ne...imgcollege.com

    ZagDad

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    I assume most of you have already seen this news, but it bears some attention:

    https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/97939...l-spark-uproar

    Pretty disappointing that the women are treated as second-class citizens by the NCAA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaglaw View Post
    I assume most of you have already seen this news, but it bears some attention:

    https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/97939...l-spark-uproar

    Pretty disappointing that the women are treated as second-class citizens by the NCAA.
    Yeah, I have seen this and the NCAA has done nothing but put their foot in their mouth time after time in response.

    Why say the reason for the weight room disparity is due to space limitations when it is so easily disproved and of course it was. It just reflects on the NCAA that it was (certainly at that time) not taking the issue seriously.

    Numerous coaches have made statements on the issue including Geno Auriemma (UConn) and Dawn Staley (South Carolina). Dawn Staley mentioned that they were assured the Men's and Women's NCAA committees were meeting together to ensure equality (as much as possible) would occur between the two bubbles. The first hole in that theory was that the men's bubble information was released a full month before the Wbb bubble information.

    I have heard that the type of Covid tests are being given to the men and women's teams in the bubbles with the men's supposedly the more accurate test. The NCAA's response was that they were confident in both tests and the type of tests being provided were due to the availability of the tests and processing capabilities of the bubble areas. O'k maybe.

    I have no idea if it is true, but I also read somewhere that the Universities/Conferences participating in the NCAA Wbb tournament are not getting paid for their participation, unlike the men. You know the NCAA is making money because ESPN is televising every Wbb tournament game. If that is the case, then every nickel the NCAA saves on putting on the tournament goes back into their pocket and not to the Universities/Conferences.

    There is no excuse why Swag Bags are not identical between the Wbb and Mbb, you have absolutely no justification for any differences. Change the name from Indianapolis to San Antonio and put the same stuff in each bag. While there may be some differences in space availabilities between hotels in the bubbles, you should have filled the available space with weight training equipment even if it did not match up piece for piece from the men. Food - no justification why it is not a similar standard between Mbb and Wbb.

    I am not a fan of most lawyers (sorry Zaglaw), but I would have no problem if the NCAA was sued for numerous Title IX violations and any winnings from the Class Action lawsuit appropriated to the teams participating in the tournament.

    ZagDad

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    Update, the NCAA has corrected this error and there is now a legit weight room w/ adequate equipment in the bubble in San Antonio now. Better late than never I guess.

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    The weight room was only one of a number of issues. Others were food, swag, Covid test type (ZagDad- you are correct), and worst of all, no monetary split of any kind to the teams. I know the women's tournament does not bring in the money that the men's does, but still. At least ESPN is airing all the games in their entirety this year. That is a huge improvement over the old "whip around" coverage.

    But, as our Jill Townsend and WSU's Coach Etheridge have said, they aren't there for the weight room. They are there to play basketball. So, let's go Zags and Cougs!

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    ZagDad - I'm told that Title IX does not apply to the NCAA as an organization. That surprises me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaglaw View Post
    ZagDad - I'm told that Title IX does not apply to the NCAA as an organization. That surprises me.
    I'd seen that too. All of the member schools have to abide by it, but the NCAA does not. Weird.

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    Of all the things being brought up, less swaggier swag seems like much ado about nothing. Why are they even getting swag bags? I swear if it wasn't the NCAA handing those out, it would be a minor violation and would result in sitting out half a game or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seacatfan View Post
    Update, the NCAA has corrected this error and there is now a legit weight room w/ adequate equipment in the bubble in San Antonio now. Better late than never I guess.
    Sort-of but it brings to light a little more of NCAA culpability. The open area that was included in videos we have all seen was never intended to be a weight room. It was intended to be a staging area for teams to meet, stretch, etc. while the practice court was sanitized. The "original" plan was not to provide any weight training rooms at all for the women until the sweet 16 and they could convert some of the practice court areas which would no longer be needed (only 16 teams) into weight training areas. If anything, this makes the NCAA look even worse that they had no intention of providing weight training access until the Sweet 16.

    Food issues are supposedly due to different standards provided by different hotels. Supposedly, the NCAA is negotiating with area restaurants to provide a larger variety and quality similar to the men's tournament. The question, why now and why not before the bubble started? This is a very sore point with Lady Zag fans given what occurred in Las Vegas.

    Here is an article that lays out most of the issues and what the NCAA has done or is claiming to have done to rectify the issues as well as the responses of several big name coaches and coaching organizations.

    Article Link: https://www.espn.com/womens-college-...rage-disparity

    I think the NCAA dug themselves into a big hole and keep continuing to shovel.

    Start of the Ladies NCAA Tournament tomorrow along with round 2 for the Mbb.

    GoZags,

    ZagDad

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    Quote Originally Posted by seacatfan View Post
    Of all the things being brought up, less swaggier swag seems like much ado about nothing. Why are they even getting swag bags? I swear if it wasn't the NCAA handing those out, it would be a minor violation and would result in sitting out half a game or something.
    If you are going to give out Swag Bags, the Swag Bags should be the same, no excuses.

    The easiest solution is to not give out Swag Bags at all, but that is not what the NCAA elected to do.

    ZagDad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaglaw View Post
    ZagDad - I'm told that Title IX does not apply to the NCAA as an organization. That surprises me.
    Why does that not surprise me!!

    ZagDad

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    Here is an article on the disparities between the Wbb and Mbb tournament bubbles from the Spokesman-Review with comments from JT, JW, CLF and Coach Etheridge from WSU. It extends farther than even we have seen. The Mbb had a large grass field set assigned for their use with football equipment, wiffle ball, etc. The women had 10 minutes outside so they could walk to and from the Covid-19 testing sight. It just goes on.

    Gonzaga, Washington State women speak up about inequity between men’s, women’s NCAA Tournament
    UPDATED: Sat., March 20, 2021
    By Theo Lawson
    theol@spokesman.com
    (509) 939-5928

    “What does raise some eyebrows and get some attention from me is just from a health and mental health standpoint, of the disparities between the men and women,” Gonzaga senior Jill Townsend said. “You saw the weight room, obviously, and the weight room serves as a health standpoint for us. It’s injury prevention, getting our lifts in.

    “… We deserve our health and mental health to be taken just as seriously as the men. It is kind of disappointing when you see that stuff like that.”

    More than the major upsets, outstanding players and polarizing coaching figures, the disparity between men’s and women’s weight rooms has become a the main talking point through the first four days of the 2021 tournament – and only subsided slightly when the NCAA responded to complaints by upgrading the convention center fitness facility being used by every team in San Antonio.

    “I think it’s unfortunate the way it played out,” Gonzaga coach Lisa Fortier said. “Because I know as they were planning, if people were thinking about the things we would need down here or maybe asking the questions of the coaches and strength coaches of what our teams would need down here, they would’ve provided us with a lot more than that.”

    “This disappointment is, it’s more of an afterthought,” said Washington State women’s coach Kamie Ethridge, who’s leading the Cougars to their first NCAA Tournament in 30 years. “I think that’s the thing. It’s that, if it’s so important to the men and they have it set up so pristine and perfectly, why would it not be important for the women?

    “… It’s the small details, it’s the, ‘No, we’re not going to give this to you and you shouldn’t ask for it. You should just be happy you get this.’ I think that’s the difference. It’s the, ‘We’re not going to think about you until then and you should just be happy you’re here,’ feeling you get if you’re us and you see the differences. The hard part for coaches is to look at your kids and say, ‘Yeah you didn’t deserve it. They do and you don’t.’ How do you communicate that to your players?”

    Gonzaga’s Jenn Wirth, the West Coast Conference’s co-player of the year, has traded notes with longtime boyfriend Corey Kispert, an All-American wing on the men’s team, about the varying NCAA Tournament experiences. Men’s players in Indianapolis have access to a large grass field, where NCAA organizers have provided equipment for football, Wiffle ball and other games. Women’s players get fresh air once a day, when they take about a 10-minute walk to a COVID-19 testing center.

    “It’s super important that both men and women are drawing attention to it, because I think if it’s only coming from the women’s side, the people that don’t really have respect for women’s sports aren’t going to care,” Wirth said. “But I think having figures on the men’s side bring attention to it also is just huge for us.”
    You can read the entire article here: https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...up-about-ineq/

    ZagDad

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    Cougs lose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 23dpg View Post
    Cougs lose.
    Went down to the wire at least. 2 of the 8/9 games were blowouts.

    Totally chalk today. A few games that threatened to have an upset, but in the end nothing unexpected.

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    BYU vs Rutgers

    Rutgers is leading 12-10 at the end of the 1st quarter.

    Lots of rust with these teams. No rhythm in the offense of either team. Each team has 7 turnovers in the 1st quarter. Whoever can hang onto the ball the best is going to have a big advantage.

    ZagDad

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    BYU vs Rutgers,

    Rutgers ends the 2nd quarter on a 10-0 run to take a 30-24 lead into halftime. Turnovers continue to remain a problem for both teams: BYU has 12 and Rutgers has 11. BYU is shooting poorly from the field 31,8% overall and 25% from 3. Rutgers is shooting better from short range as they are shooting 47.8% overall and 20% from 3. Rutgers is killing BYU on the boards 19-10.

    ZagDad

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    Quote Originally Posted by seacatfan View Post
    Went down to the wire at least. 2 of the 8/9 games were blowouts.

    Totally chalk today. A few games that threatened to have an upset, but in the end nothing unexpected.
    Couldn't find enough offense although Teder has showed signs late in the season. We need to find some help for Leger-Walker. Way too much on her shoulders at this point.

    Are Zag fans BYU fans today? They look headed to round 2.

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    BYU becomes first lower seed to win in the Wbb NCAA tournament.

    BYU comes from 12 back in the 2nd half and hits 7-9 free throws down the stretch to beat Rutgers 69-66.

    Harding goes off for 28 points and Gonzales adds 17 for the Cougars who are moving on.

    ZagDad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coug Tracks View Post
    Couldn't find enough offense although Teder has showed signs late in the season. We need to find some help for Leger-Walker. Way too much on her shoulders at this point.

    Are Zag fans BYU fans today? They look headed to round 2.
    I noticed the Cougs made some poor shot selections. The young WSU post took several ill advised shots down the stretch against double teams instead of passing it back out.

    The Cougs played well, represented well. The program is on the way up.

    Congrats to the WSU players and staff for a good year.

    I always root for the WCC. When the WCC does well, it only enhances the reputation of the league and its members.

    ZagDad

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    The rest of the 9:00 AM games went according to chalk.

    #7 Alabama took down #10 North Carolina, 80-71.
    #3 Georgia had pulled away from #14 Drexel in the 2nd half (tied at halftime) to win 67-53.

    In the 11:00 AM games, #13 Wright State is pushing #4 Arkansas 20-12 at the end of the first.
    #4 Indiana is leading #13 VCU 16-11 at the end of the first.
    #3 Arizona is man-handling #14 Stoney Brook, 26-10 at the end of the first.

    ZagDad

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