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Thread: Gonzaga vs Santa Clar Post Game thoughts and analysis

  1. #26
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    I think that this is a really good thread to read. I like it because there are a number of different opinions on how the Zags are playing right now, and Ilke that diversity of opinions. IMO, not enough credit has been given to Santa Clara. They played a really really good game and should be given credit for that. They have a very good coach, and you could see that out on the court last night. Santa Clara was ready to give GU fits. They are a team who was hit really hard by Covid19, and they are just now getting into their form. I believe they will do well in the WCC Tournament. They have 3 very good players who can score in a veriety of ways, and they showed their skill last night. They have two very skilled bigs which most teams do not have, and they have a guard who can score on anyone one on one. Any team with three good players who can score like these 3 are very good teams. Williams was on fire for them last night, and dang it, give the kid some credit for his outstanding play against some very good GU defenders. GU was #3 in the country on defense before the game last night; so give some credit to SC.

    I disagree with the feelings that GU does not have a good back up center. Imo Watson is better than almost every back up center in the country, and he has been showing that lately. The trouble last night was that both Timme and Watson got in foul trouble the first half and GU had to go with the 3rd and 4th c.enters. Again it is my opinion that both of these two did very well last night, and I take them over any 3rd and 4th centers in the whole country. And honestly, I am tired of all of the criticism about Watson. He is probably the most improved player on the team. He has completely transformed himself and his game. Too bad some of you can't see that. He's one of the reasons the Zags are in the top ten on defense in the country. If a back up center can score 6 or 8 points a game, then you have a very good back up center.

    I agree with Jazz when he points out that last night Santa Clara played like a team the Zags might play in the first round. They are that good. At least they were last night. They actually have 4 players who had very good offensive games last night.

    If you read Section16's thread about Adam Morrison's view of the game, I agree with him when he said that the Zags needed a tough game like the one they had last night, and hopefully they will get two more in the WCC tournament. They need these kind of games as they prepare to go into the National tournament. I hope the Zags get to play them in the Conference tournamet. Personally I don't see Saint Mary's as the 4th best team in our conference.

    And finally I do get tired of all of the complaining about the WCC every year, and how Gonzaga would be better if they played in one of the better conferences in the country. History does not support these complaints. The WCC seems to be a good enough conference to prepare Gonzaga for the NCAA Tournament in March. Gonzaga has done quite well in that tournament and most likely, better than any team in the country right now. I believe that this years Gonzaga team is a very special team. They have done what few teams before them have done, and that is to be undefeated at this point in the season. THAT is not easy. I don't care what conference you are in, if you go undefeated this far into the season you have a dang good team. Is Gonzaga the best team in the country? I don't know. I do know that they have as good of an argument as any other team. Are there other really good teams in America this year? Of course there are. Michigan and Baylor are two of them. And there are others. Will we be National Champs at the end of the year? It is way to early to say. We all should know that it is dang hard to win that National Tournament. I think that too many fans have believed it is a given that the Zags are going to win it this year. Of course we all want them to do that. And we all believe that it's a very good chance that they can. But there are other teams who also could win it. That is a fact. The NCAA tournament would not be what it is if there were not a number of teams who could win it. The tournament will be full of upsets, and we can all hope that the Zags will not be one of those. Winning a national championship will NOT BE EASY, and it will serve Gonzaga well if they have a few more games that will be as tough as the one last night, and I am sure that Loyola Marymount will be another good test for the Zags tomorrow night. I remain as optimistic as ever.

    Go Zags!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

  2. #27
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    A tough start even though we won the tip for a change. The Zags felt their size, speed and strength quickly but this team doesn't fold and go home, they endure, fight and gut these things out which is a true sign of a winner. That said, a lot of turnovers and poor shot selection were troublesome. This game could have gone either way with 6 left but when it counted they stepped up.
    SCU earned some respect no question.
    One of the greatest stories in basketball history...Gonzaga!

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    This was an opening round type game, vs a solid, tall but not Uber talented team with a very experienced coach. So some caveats there. The lack of bigs depth is glaring. All American guards galore, one dependable big.
    I think so Jazz .....after the season they have had, I wish Santa Clara the best and they might make dome noise in the WCC Tourney....

    As Rumsfeld said " You go to war with the army you have " Mark is a cerebral game coach and he has 7 very skilled players.... and can play with a variety of lineups ...... this is going to be fun...

  4. #29
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    YGreat comments Reborn. I also agree that Watson is a solid backup. And I think his not starting in many cases is because they need a solid backup if Timme gets in foul trouble. If not then we see both playing

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    Quote Originally Posted by zag67 View Post
    YGreat comments Reborn. I also agree that Watson is a solid backup. And I think his not starting in many cases is because they need a solid backup if Timme gets in foul trouble. If not then we see both playing
    So the reason Watson isn’t starting is just to save him in case they possibly need him? Seems like a stretch. More than likely he isn’t dependable enough. They have more players that are better and would serve the team better by playing more minutes even if it changes their size.

  6. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaZagFan View Post
    Zags didn't have a great game and had more turnovers than usual period! Maybe its just me but its seems like some think that a team like SC is just going to roll over and die when facing Gonzaga.
    7 Zags attempted 3's Cook, Gregg, Timme, Suggs only attempted 1 each and in total were 0/4. No bad shots and all are capable shooters, are they only supposed to shoot when they know its going in? Ok as a team they didn't shoot it great from the three but they scored 89 points. The lack of respect for some WCC teams is ridiculous. When the Zags are rolling ok they will beat up on most teams. I dont think its any great secret that if Timme isn't on the floor its not the same team, he only played 18 min and Zags shot it a little below average from 3 and had some unusual turnovers. STILL STILL Its the 20th straight win by double digits while being ranked #1!!!! Does anyone here know how hard that is to do? Or how often that has happened, I don't but I know its beyond rare air!!!
    I believe only once a#1 ranked team has won by double digits 20 games in a row. It was mentioned on espn talk radio this morning by Jay Williams. 21 will be a new mark in history.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayray View Post
    So the reason Watson isnít starting is just to save him in case they possibly need him? Seems like a stretch. More than likely he isnít dependable enough. They have more players that are better and would serve the team better by playing more minutes even if it changes their size.
    I agree that the move from starter to 6th man was on purpose with the primary purpose of ensuring adequate spread of risk for our big men (this occurred specifically when Ballo got hurt).
    I also believe it is a matter of match up needs as well
    I also believe it is a matter of a desire to have 2 point guards on floor as much as possible
    I also believe it creates greater spacing on the floor without playing Watson and Timme together allowing for more freedom of movement for the post position as well as the guards

    IF Gregg continues to improve you could see, depending on other team match ups for us and exploitation towards them, Watson and Timme on court same time once again
    Basketball...The Toy Department of Life

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  8. #33
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    I have no problem at all saying that Nembhard might be better for the Zags right now as a starter than Watson. Nembhard is an excellent passer and leads the team in assists. He is also a very good shooter from mid-range. However, he is not any better overall than Watson in my opinion. Both can score 10 points. Or close to it. It's just a matter of who's needed at what time. You see, Suggs is a very good point guard, but also can score from the wing, and he's an excellent driver to the basket. I think we need him to be a scorer more than either Nembhard or Watson. We need Suggs to be scoring around 15 a game. And most of the time he does. Last night was not his best game. Santa Clara had a very good plan on how to defend him....play off of him and don't let him drive to the basket. Overall it worked, and he was off from the 3 point range. Maybe next time we play he'll hit a couple of those 3's.

    Go Zags!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayray View Post
    So the reason Watson isnít starting is just to save him in case they possibly need him? Seems like a stretch. More than likely he isnít dependable enough. They have more players that are better and would serve the team better by playing more minutes even if it changes their size.
    It's clear he's not on the bench because "they possibly need him," and that's silly to even bring up. He's started half the games this year, and otherwise is first off the bench. And he's definitely NOT "not dependable enough." He's at the top of team ranks in a lot of categories:

    He's fourth in offensive rating.
    He's third in effective field goal % and true shooting %.
    He's second on the team in steals.
    And he leads the team in blocks, far 2p% (by a large margin), and overall 2p% at 75%, which is incredible. And all that in fewer minutes (he plays 49% of game time).

    Anton is carrying his weight. Yeah, he fouls more than he should which is reflective of his aggressive D, but he's absolutely carrying his weight.

  10. #35
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    I think Few may be underestimating the effectiveness of the open jump shot at 10'. If teams are going to sag that much to prevent penetration, just stop and pop. The calls inside are so inconsistent that I'd rather take a missed shot with a chance to rebound over a charge and/or turnover.

    I know it's not the right approach outside of the WCC but you have to play the hand you're dealt in the WCC.
    We are on this earth to live, not to avoid death.

  11. #36
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    It’s okay to give the other team credit for playing well.

    I am personally disappointed that a couple of ours bigs haven’t materialized as productive players but even spot minutes against certain teams as all the Zags need. Gregg has leap-frogged the others, which is a real testament to him. He and others could still end up being unsung heroes in a game or two in the tournament. If Timme was so extremely good we might be seeing more of these other guys, too.

  12. #37
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    santa clara had an A game tonight and deserve a lot of credit
    the world can see when we play small ball that big men can back Kispert in and shoot over him, that is not to say that the advantage of small ball package deal is still not better than having two bigs.
    our tactic of driving into the paint when they have clogged it up will produce lots of turnovers and forced passing.
    i wish we had the 3 pt. power to kill teams that do that, but since we don't we can expect our opponents to take notice.
    at times it seemed Ayayi was not as intensely focused as usual.
    their big men were successful shooting over timme and kispert, I wish Zacharov or Ballo were good enough to step in.
    we still play 'pretty' and it was enough to win
    my big concern, as i have expressed recently in other threads, is this team has not had a close game, a grinder, where we are changing the lead in the last 3 minutes - under the big lights (even without a crowd) experience in those situations seems to benefit ALL players and ALL teams, to put their pressure helmets on that they have worn before and play through crisis minutes. We will probably get at least one in the Dance and i hope we learn that from still winning it, rather than learning it by taking an early exit.
    for that i am grateful for the Santa Clara and pepperdine games they were close for 3 quarters
    i agree with reborn about the futility of whining about the WCC before going Dancing, and a great team will overcome the handicap that comes with not having other top 20 teams in our conference to bang with.
    Lets go guys, we learn from this, stay composed, play within ourselves, and kill it in the Dance. Also ignore the hype which at this point is like a big kettle drum banging away all over the country. If I were Baylor or Michigan I would be salivating at the opportunity to throw that kettle drum into the landfill.

    What we have going for us is that Nembhard, Ayayi, Cook, Kispert and to some degree Timme (lots of close games last year) already have played close games at the top level and can reach for their pressure helmets when the time comes. Suggs, Watson, Strawther, Ballo, Ben Gregg, Harris, Zacharov to the degree they get dancing minutes, will be growing their pressure helmets there. That is the same problem Kentucky, Duke, N. Caroline, Kansas have every year with their Freshman 5 star recruits and 2nd year top players that didn't get much playing time their freshman year.

  13. #38
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    the world can see when we play small ball that big men can back Kispert in and shoot over him, that is not to say that the advantage of small ball package deal is still not better than having two bigs.
    I think that's by design. Corey did a pretty good job on defense last night, even if they hit at least half of those bunnies. By leaving him one on one with no help, you take away an open 3 point shot. The only way I see the Zags losing a game is if the other team goes bonkers from 3 point.

    It doesn't look pretty, but it's been effective for the most part.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacomaZAG View Post
    How many wide open 3's did the guys miss tonight, especially in the first half?? Make half those wide open misses and this is another 25+ point blowout. The TO's were just the result of carelessness brought on by boredom and the result being a foregone conclusion.

    Regarding not having bigs or being able to handle a team with bigs...........one word................IOWA. The guys did just fine against the favorite for POY and his supporting cast.

    Nothing to see here. Just finish out the conference season and Tourney with no injuries and reload for the Dance, just like every year.

    On a positive note, the guys won their third opening tip in a row, so there's that............

    Go ZAGS
    When you win the tip,why did we get to start the second half with the ball???

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinfoilzag View Post
    I think Few may be underestimating the effectiveness of the open jump shot at 10'. If teams are going to sag that much to prevent penetration, just stop and pop. The calls inside are so inconsistent that I'd rather take a missed shot with a chance to rebound over a charge and/or turnover.

    I know it's not the right approach outside of the WCC but you have to play the hand you're dealt in the WCC.
    - totally agree

    - plus i do not agree with teaching the players to jump into their opponent's chest when taking every 2 to 5 foot shot, hoping to get an and one. just go straight up and take an uncontested 4 footer, that has to be an 80% shot.
    - i understand the idea of getting close to your defender to take away his ability to block your shot, but i literally count 4, 6, 8 times a game when our player has made his shot more difficult by jumping into his opponent. the womens team is especially bad at doing this

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagwalkley View Post
    When you win the tip,why did we get to start the second half with the ball???
    - because during the first half there was a 'held ball'. so at that point santa clara received the ball and the possession arrow was flipped in gonzaga's direction.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagwalkley View Post
    When you win the tip,why did we get to start the second half with the ball???
    There was a tie-up in the 1st half. Alternating possessions.

  18. #43
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    Just about any of the last 6 Zag squads would have been a top 3 team with Suggs as point guard.

    If one is going to only have one dependable big, Timme is a pretty good one to have.

    Every team we play will try to get Timme in foul trouble.

    Teams are going to make us prove we can beat them with the 3 ball.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
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  19. #44
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    Default About Last Night

    Once or twice a WCC regular season (each season, it seems) Zags play a stinker wherein poor shooting, turnovers, and foul troubles are met with an "A" game from the opposition. Last night felt like one of those games. Zags' perseverance and talent were enough to overcome the mistakes and notch a 14 point win.

    Santa Clara started the year 6 - 0. They have road wins at St. Mary's, San Diego, LMU and knocked off Pepperdine. After last night, they are 10-7. I sold them short. They have some talent, length, and athleticism. They gave our guys a game.

    According to Coach Michaelson, as reported in the Post-Game radio thread, "LMU has a ton of experience and good size and they are tough and crazy physical. They will throw 4 bigs out there and we didn't do well with two bigs against us tonight." It's possible Saturday's game could be a closer than expected tune up. Good.

    Win the next three, stay COVID and injury free, tune up for March Madness. Zags have three AA team candidates and a HOF coach. I still like their chances.

    Have a great day

  20. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by RenoZag View Post
    Once or twice a WCC regular season (each season, it seems) Zags play a stinker wherein poor shooting, turnovers, and foul troubles are met with an "A" game from the opposition. Last night felt like one of those games. Zags' perseverance and talent were enough to overcome the mistakes and notch a 14 point win.

    Santa Clara started the year 6 - 0. They have road wins at St. Mary's, San Diego, LMU and knocked off Pepperdine. After last night, they are 10-7. I sold them short. They have some talent, length, and athleticism. They gave our guys a game.

    According to Coach Michaelson, as reported in the Post-Game radio thread, "LMU has a ton of experience and good size and they are tough and crazy physical. They will throw 4 bigs out there and we didn't do well with two bigs against us tonight." It's possible Saturday's game could be a closer than expected tune up. Good.

    Win the next three, stay COVID and injury free, tune up for March Madness. Zags have three AA team candidates and a HOF coach. I still like their chances.

    Have a great day
    LMU has 7 scholarship players available. I expect the Zags to run them off the floor.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagsfanforlife View Post
    LMU has 7 scholarship players available. I expect the Zags to run them off the floor.
    What are you saying?

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    Easier said than done, but I’d like to see the double come from the side that keeps the player from turning and shooting over his left shoulder and shooting with the right hand. This is the preferred way shoot those baby hooks and it makes the double way less effective if you let them get into their most comfortable shot.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    What are you saying?
    I don't know, LMU has won 4 of their last 5, losing only to BYU by 17. They are currently the #3 team in the WCC.

  24. #49
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    It's not a bad thing to get tested late in the season, not playing your A game and still notch a 14 point win.
    Positives from last night included the starters playing a full game which improves their game conditioning, having to dig deep and gut it out, and the foul trouble for Timme allowed Few to figure out who he can trust to put in AND who is going to step up and earn that trust.
    It's much better for those things to come up now than in the game against the 8/9 winner which will likely be a power 5 team that looks like Santa Clara like North Carolina for instance. They are an overall much taller team than we are at the post with more skilled players all around than Santa Clara. Although I think that people around the country would be surprised by the results if Santa Clara and the Tarheels were to play each other this year

  25. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    I don't know, LMU has won 4 of their last 5, losing only to BYU by 17. They are currently the #3 team in the WCC.
    That was at LMU and BYU led by 34 until LMU closed on a 17-0 run.

    If LMU keeps it close I will be amazed.

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