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Thread: Garbage time

  1. #1
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    Default Garbage time

    Anyone else getting a little weary of Harris and Strawther stat hunting in the last few minutes? Would love to see them try to get their teammates a bucket there. Especially Strawther. They're both going to be great players for us, but it's not a great look.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagricultural View Post
    Anyone else getting a little weary of Harris and Strawther stat hunting in the last few minutes?
    No.

    I'd like to see them hit a few more ... but I haven't noticed them chucking up shots out of the flow of the offense.
    gobroncsgozags: "Have a great day in the podunk, crap hole known as Roslyn."

  3. #3

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    I dont mind them shooting as they are.. i would rather them shoot then Pavel or Marty.. they are the future so I want to see them be aggressive. With that said, I would like to see more out of them. They have underperformed relative to their ranking so far.. Sorry. Just being honest.. :shrug:

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    I know its blowout mode, but what I absolutely HATE is when the offense and ball movement stops, WAY too much 1 on 1 and just putting up quick shots or lack of passes in blowout mode. For example, Martynas did not touch the ball once on a pass swung around. The ball doesnt get reversed or passed enough at all in blowout mode. I'm sure Coach Few is pissed about this, because for these guys to push for rotation minutes and to develop to be high level guys, theyve got to show you something in blowout mode.

    I always feel freshman have got to start by being good vs the low level competition, and climb the ladder that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bing View Post
    No
    I thought Ballo was working extremely hard to place himself in position on the low block or trying to work the pick and roll and both neglected to get him the ball. You could tell he was frustrated at one point where he worked to get inside position three times before having to reset because the ball never was passed inside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagHouse View Post
    I thought Ballo was working extremely hard to place himself in position on the low block or trying to work the pick and roll and both neglected to get him the ball. You could tell he was frustrated at one point where he worked to get inside position three times before having to reset because the ball never was passed inside.
    This
    Krozman
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    Quote Originally Posted by krozman View Post
    This
    He did get it earlier and pivoted three times verse a double team. This wasnt a Ballo type game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WRHUradio View Post
    I know its blowout mode, but what I absolutely HATE is when the offense and ball movement stops, WAY too much 1 on 1 and just putting up quick shots or lack of passes in blowout mode. For example, Martynas did not touch the ball once on a pass swung around. The ball doesnt get reversed or passed enough at all in blowout mode. I'm sure Coach Few is pissed about this, because for these guys to push for rotation minutes and to develop to be high level guys, theyve got to show you something in blowout mode.

    I always feel freshman have got to start by being good vs the low level competition, and climb the ladder that way.
    This is what's bothering me too

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagHouse View Post
    I thought Ballo was working extremely hard to place himself in position on the low block or trying to work the pick and roll and both neglected to get him the ball. You could tell he was frustrated at one point where he worked to get inside position three times before having to reset because the ball never was passed inside.
    Yes he was and I could see the frustration on his face when they didn’t pass him the ball...he is currently our future as well and we need for him to get more comfortable developing his offence...imo

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagsfanforlife View Post
    I dont mind them shooting as they are.. i would rather them shoot then Pavel or Marty.. they are the future so I want to see them be aggressive. With that said, I would like to see more out of them. They have underperformed relative to their ranking so far.. Sorry. Just being honest.. :shrug:
    Agreed. I thought that-- fresh out of the box-- they would be making more shots. I don't look at this as a knock, but an observation. They are freshmen, so it doesn't say anything about who they will be down the road, and perhaps soon. It could click any game. For example, I was very worried about how rushed Watson looked earlier on and Nembhard's 3-point shot looked broken, and things seem to be going better for them lately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagHouse View Post
    I thought Ballo was working extremely hard to place himself in position on the low block or trying to work the pick and roll and both neglected to get him the ball. You could tell he was frustrated at one point where he worked to get inside position three times before having to reset because the ball never was passed inside.
    To your point, I thought that this was the big difference in the Dixie St game vs the game prior. Ballo did very well against DSU when he got touches. Passing into the post is harder than jacking up a shot, so I understand the inconsistency. Ayayi is masterful at using his dribble to create an angle for the post-entry pass.

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    It was interesting seen Zakharov at the 4. This year as a 5, he has looked more like a stretch 4 but without the stretch, sadly. He looks more comfortable facing up on people. His game, and how he is supposed to fit in, is hard to figure out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagricultural View Post
    Anyone else getting a little weary of Harris and Strawther stat hunting in the last few minutes? Would love to see them try to get their teammates a bucket there. Especially Strawther. They're both going to be great players for us, but it's not a great look.
    Nope, not at all.

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    Only thing I'm getting weary about is another quality big that will be ready this season to help Timme. Ballo is going to be a alow process. Luckily this year we can go to a 4 guard lineup when needed.
    America's Team!

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    Just seeing body language, Martynas just has to keep working super hard behind the scenes and build up his confidence his own way. You're so far away from home, youre working very hard and just want to play. I think Martynas, Pavel especially have to not worry about making mistakes, and play through them. This is where extended blowout mode is important against WCC opponents, where these guys can get 10 possessions and 5 minutes of time. I think its very possible that Pavel could have his name called on at some point where its NOT blowout mode. Timme plays, Ballo comes in and picks up two fouls in two minutes, very realistic. Then Few will go back to Timme, but then after that Pavel late in the first half could get a two minute stint.

    The other thing I notice when its mop-up time is that the guards need to enter the ball into the post more. Statistically, the percentages are WAY better of a team scoring when a post gets the ball inside for 1 touch. If you get a post touch + 1 ball reversal, your basketball percentages of scoring in a possession are radically higher. The Rotation players do this well {In my opinion actually not ENOUGH compared to previous Zag teams} but do it just enough to not be considered "perimeter dominant."

    In mopup time, the quick pass inside to Pavel or Ballo needs to happen, and then they kick it back out, DONT force the shot. TRUST that you can re-post and get a better angle or spot. The guards have to look back inside too. Way too few passes during mopup time. These guys need to look like they are running what the Rotation guys are running, even if the shots DONT go in. The whole point is if you're running it close to similarly, they can fit in more when/if given the opportunity with the rotation players, they fit in.
    YES I'm sure they practice it daily but still, doing it in games is different and develops a comfort that these guys all still need to get because theyre Freshman or Sophomores.

    I agree developing another BIG is significant, don't give up on Pavel, Bigs can take time. Kelly Olynyk as a Sophomore would not play rotation minutes on this current Zags team either. Pavel would probably be a rotation player for 70% of the country. A good 5 mins against someone even in mop-up could give him the breakthrough he needs and where he can start to use that in practice and make Coach Few's decisions even tougher. All he has to be able to do is show he can come in and know what he's doing within his role, provide defensive resistance without fouling vs big, physical 6'10 inside-oriented BIGS. Not many teams have them, but I would be curious if he got a chance to play with the starters late in the Iowa game and see what he looks like bodying up Garza to make it a bit more difficult to score. Ballo has more girth, Zakharov probably has slightly more wingspan and agility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagsfanforlife View Post
    I dont mind them shooting as they are.. i would rather them shoot then Pavel or Marty.. they are the future so I want to see them be aggressive. With that said, I would like to see more out of them. They have underperformed relative to their ranking so far.. Sorry. Just being honest.. :shrug:
    Agree. They are certainly not Pangos and Harris in terms of out of the box performances as freshman. Opportunity may be factor. Whatever they’re doing seems ok with Few, but, yes, when they get in they play more like walk ons getting theirs than top 50-75 recruits looking to impress for PT for real. I’d be way more impressed if Harris never took a shot but set up teammates.

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    Zags score just 8 points in the final 7:14.

    Arlo, Pavel, Ballo don't even take a shot while Strawther and Harris combined to go 1-7 on shot attempts. Harris and to a lesser extent Strawther hogging the rock and not passing to teammates is consistent with what we have seen already. Neither of them are hitting enough shots for their volume and usage. I get it they are freshmen but they are freelancing and not running the offense, IMO.

    Few and the rest of the coaching staff need to straighten them out.

    ZZ

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    I feel like Harris is just beginning the journey as a scorer, and he's at step 3, which is graduation into garbage time. It's a lot like the messiness that adam morrison had his Freshman year when he was spastic and you were curious wtf was going on with him, but it came together. Lots of other examples obviously too. It's garbage time. They need to see themselves fail in real time to get better, and maybe Coach Few will ask HArris to let others fail next time.
    Krozman
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagzilla View Post
    Zags score just 8 points in the final 7:14.

    Arlo, Pavel, Ballo don't even take a shot while Strawther and Harris combined to go 1-7 on shot attempts. Harris and to a lesser extent Strawther hogging the rock and not passing to teammates is consistent with what we have seen already. Neither of them are hitting enough shots for their volume and usage. I get it they are freshmen but they are freelancing and not running the offense, IMO.
    The same endings happened vs Iowa and Virginia. Against UVA we were on pace for 106+ with 5 minutes to go, and the bench freshmen group scored 5 more in over 5 mins. Personally I don’t think Pavel and Martynas have now (or ever) the skills to be meaningful rotation guys on a top10 team. As for Strawther and Harris - I think both will be there one day but right now are too eager to live up to hype as two thirds of the “tricky trio”.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by krozman View Post
    I feel like Harris is just beginning the journey as a scorer, and he's at step 3, which is graduation into garbage time. It's a lot like the messiness that adam morrison had his Freshman year when he was spastic and you were curious wtf was going on with him, but it came together. Lots of other examples obviously too. It's garbage time. They need to see themselves fail in real time to get better, and maybe Coach Few will ask HArris to let others fail next time.
    I agree Harris will be just fine, but Adam as a freshman was still a shot maker.
    Averaged 11 ppg and shot 60%.

  21. #21
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    " Personally I don’t think Pavel and Martynas have now (or ever) the skills to be meaningful rotation guys on a top10 team."

    Last year Martynas had some periods where he looked very solid. Needs play time.
    One of the greatest stories in basketball history...Gonzaga!

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    In fairness, when Straw plays w the starters he attempts to get in the flow, while Harris may make a pass or two, is still laser focused on putting it up. Because of the nature of the Zags season so far it’s almost humorous. Surrounded by lottery picks and veteran players, here’s this freshman launching shots from everywhere at low rates of conversion. Yet Few seems totally unbothered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagzilla View Post
    Zags score just 8 points in the final 7:14.

    Arlo, Pavel, Ballo don't even take a shot while Strawther and Harris combined to go 1-7 on shot attempts. Harris and to a lesser extent Strawther hogging the rock and not passing to teammates is consistent with what we have seen already. Neither of them are hitting enough shots for their volume and usage. I get it they are freshmen but they are freelancing and not running the offense, IMO.

    Few and the rest of the coaching staff need to straighten them out.

    ZZ
    There’s a big drop off from Cook to Harris or Strawther and it’s not about talent as much as experience and inner confidence to play within the system instead of focusing on getting your shine on. Posted this on the thread about Cook but fits here too:

    Harris sure looks to be all about getting his shot when on the court, particularly during mop up minutes when all bench players are in. Understandable for an alpha frosh, I guess, but far cry from the beautiful passing and off ball movement we see with our veteran littles and Suggs.
    It is their time....their team...I just get to watch. - Bartruff1

  24. #24
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    Terrible Trio is a cute but errant collective term. Suggs is a top 5 now and Harris and Straw will be four year players.

    Harris is shooting 39% and 25% for the record. Straw 46% but zero, 0-8.

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    Harris reminds me of freshman Zach Norvell from the 3 pt line

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