How confident are you in having a ‘20-‘21 season

[Gonzdb8]

I think Tin's got it. Since AOL dropped her tweet urging governors to keep states closed lest the economy pick up and Trump gets the votes. In that tweet she says flat out that it would be better for companies to close and more unemployment would be her wish so Trump won't be reelected . She says it's a small price to pay for her party to be elected. It's corrupt as heck and it's going on. So some may say "Keep politics out of this"....it's a bit late. Politics is woven throughout. sadly. Look at Mick Mick's post...….it's inextricable and did not begin with the present President. It's gotten worse...……

I think you meant AOC, not AOL. The tweet you reference prominently in your post is a fabrication. Perhaps you could do a little research before spreading disinformation. Thank you.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/fa...-restrictions/

[DZ]

I think Tin's got it. Since AOL dropped her tweet urging governors to keep states closed lest the economy pick up and Trump gets the votes. In that tweet she says flat out that it would be better for companies to close and more unemployment would be her wish so Trump won't be reelected . She says it's a small price to pay for her party to be elected. It's corrupt as heck and it's going on. So some may say "Keep politics out of this"....it's a bit late. Politics is woven throughout. sadly. Look at Mick Mick's post...….it's inextricable and did not begin with the present President. It's gotten worse...……

Which tweet? I assume you mean AOC, I went back to June 1st, do I need to keep going?


I don't believe there will be a season. We're seeing it raise up all across the country and basketball is likely the sport least conducive to playing during the epidemic.

[MDABE80]

I think you meant AOC, not AOL. The tweet you reference prominently in your post is a fabrication. Perhaps you could do a little research before spreading disinformation. Thank you.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/fa...-restrictions/

AOC and it was posted and widely circulated. She didn't refute it. Thats the research done on your favorite communist.

[LTownZag]

AOC and it was posted and widely circulated. She didn't refute it. Thats the research done on your favorite communist.

I will donate $300 to your favorite politician or charity if you can back up this claim, which you’ve now doubled down on.

And I’ll give $30 to the charity, and post proof, if you admit your susceptibility to confirmation bias and acknowledge you read/spread a false far-right conspiracy theory and then reflexively doubled down when called on it, while insulting user “Gonzdb8”.

[TexasZagFan]

I will donate $300 to your favorite politician or charity if you can back up this claim, which you’ve now doubled down on.

And I’ll give $30 to the charity, and post proof, if you admit your susceptibility to confirmation bias and acknowledge you read/spread a false far-right conspiracy theory and then reflexively doubled down when called on it, while insulting user “Gonzdb8”.

Rather than issue another snarky comment, I'm going for a 5 mile walk in 92 degree weather, and I'm not going to wear a mask...though I bought one last night that bears a striking resemblance to my avatar.

This thread, like others, is really pissing me off...if you don't like one person's stance, then it's a straight shot to personal attacks. Eff that. Childish to say "I'll donate xxx to your favorite charity", this is a freaking internet forum.

[LTownZag]

Rather than issue another snarky comment, I'm going for a 5 mile walk in 92 degree weather, and I'm not going to wear a mask...though I bought one last night that bears a striking resemblance to my avatar.

This thread, like others, is really pissing me off...if you don't like one person's stance, then it's a straight shot to personal attacks. Eff that. Childish to say "I'll donate xxx to your favorite charity", this is a freaking internet forum.

Honest question: Why are you more bothered by my offer to give my money to charity if MDABE80 either backs up his (false) claim or if he tells the truth, than you are apparently bothered by his double down spreading a conspiratorial lie while he insults Gonzdb8 in the process? I put my personal money on the line, in public, to display my genuine commitment to either outcome as the facts support.

I offered him a large incentive if he could give evidence of his claim. He couldn't.

I offered him a smaller incentive if he would simply do the upstanding thing and acknowledge his lie, which he had repeated without evidence while insulting someone in the process.

I couldn't convince him to do either of the above, but thought a public airing of evidence either way, with proceeds to charity, might be preferable to ignoring more disinformation. I'm fascinated by the psychology leading to your conclusion that the personal attack was against MDABE80 by me, and a reaction wherein my response to MDABE80 is what's "really pissing you off". It certainly isn't my intent to personally attack someone or piss you off.

[DZ]

Even if the metrics being used for measuring Covid-19's impact were correct (which they aren't) it's all just academic.

A cornerstone of the american way is that you are your own sovereign and are allowed to decide how much risk you take as long as it doesn't damage others. If you want to free climb sheer cliffs, or wrestle tigers, or drink yourself to death; you can decide your own risk appetite. If it kills you, fine, as long as you only hurt yourself.

The problem with a pandemic, is that it requires everyone to have the same risk appetite as an individual's choices are seen as a threat to the group. This doesn't work for American's because of the loss of individual liberty.

American's are fine with being told what not to do and they are even ok with being asked to do something but they won't be told what to do. It's goes back to the constitution and bill of rights not saying what liberties are given but what liberties the government can't take away.

The pandemic has finally given officials what they have always dreamed of: the ability to change behavior through force. They won't want to give it up. They will keep telling everyone to wait just one more month for things to get better and if you are against it they will say you hate science and want to kill people. The will use the right reason to do the wrong thing.

I don't think there will be a season because it is not in the interest of our governor and that's the only thing that matters for this poll.

It is not a cornerstone of the American way to be your own sovereign. Try dumping your business waste in a river without a permit and see how fast your sovereignty runs out. The American way is compromising our outright freedom to keep from hurting others. It is a balance.

Officials haven't "dreamed of" this kind of power, that's a myth and a very hurtful one. Your pronouncement about your freedoms are oblivious to the risk you're running. EVEN if we say that you only get yourself sick, you could easily end up in the ICU. "My choice" you say? Yes, your choice to risk the lives of people who then have to save yours, such as my family members. You also take up resources in those hospitals that are not at all unlimited, ask NYC, Houston, Montgomery.

Then we get into the fact that your demand to walk around mask free and eat at restaurants, carry on business, etc. is behavior likely to spread it more to people who also get sick, and then we're back in the hospital.

Disasters have always meant temporary crackdowns on freedom. Try entering an area just hit by a hurricane, or earthquake. Your freedom to assemble where you want will run right up against barriers keeping you out.

We try to maximize freedom by balancing it with keeping others free to live safely. You can't have 6 beers and drive home even though the "risk is mine," it also infringes on others. If you try to use your private property for business purposes, it gets shut down bc it drags down property values around you. It's a balance. You have to build to fire code to protect others, pay a minum wage to employees … etc. etc. society balances personal freedoms with others freedom. Where that balance falls moves in accord with how we govern ourselves.

Nothing wrong with a libertarian bent. But there's lots wrong with the assumption that it's the purest, best, way to live. It can be extremely harmful to others, and often people care too little

[willandi]

I said it before and I'll say it again.

Lock down, everybody and every thing for 6 weeks. Only essentials. Health care, grocery and pharmacy to put you online or phone orders in the trunk. Truck drivers to deliver to food and prescripts to those places, Skeletal staff for utilities, for prescription delivery through the mail, and Law Enforcement to pick up those idiots that just refuse to obey. They will serve the 6 weeks (or until they are up) in jail, extended to 14 days after the lock down is over.
Every worker gets $5000, including landlords and bosses, but no corporations or companies. NO RENT for 2 months, but no payments to the banks by the landlords for two months. Utilities, cable tv, cell phone, credit cards etc get paid.
When the 6 weeks are up, people will burst out ready to spend that money. The economy will rebound.

We lose this season of MLB, Nascar etc, but we get ALL the college sports, the NFL and all fall, winter and spring sports. The NBA can go ahead because of their bubble/campus plan.
All tests go to health care, people that are transported and those they live with. Their quarantine lasts until they are proven clean.

[tinfoilzag]

It is not a cornerstone of the American way to be your own sovereign. Try dumping your business waste in a river without a permit and see how fast your sovereignty runs out. The American way is compromising our outright freedom to keep from hurting others. It is a balance.

Officials haven't "dreamed of" this kind of power, that's a myth and a very hurtful one. Your pronouncement about your freedoms are oblivious to the risk you're running. EVEN if we say that you only get yourself sick, you could easily end up in the ICU. "My choice" you say? Yes, your choice to risk the lives of people who then have to save yours, such as my family members. You also take up resources in those hospitals that are not at all unlimited, ask NYC, Houston, Montgomery.

Then we get into the fact that your demand to walk around mask free and eat at restaurants, carry on business, etc. is behavior likely to spread it more to people who also get sick, and then we're back in the hospital.

Disasters have always meant temporary crackdowns on freedom. Try entering an area just hit by a hurricane, or earthquake. Your freedom to assemble where you want will run right up against barriers keeping you out.

We try to maximize freedom by balancing it with keeping others free to live safely. You can't have 6 beers and drive home even though the "risk is mine," it also infringes on others. If you try to use your private property for business purposes, it gets shut down bc it drags down property values around you. It's a balance. You have to build to fire code to protect others, pay a minum wage to employees … etc. etc. society balances personal freedoms with others freedom. Where that balance falls moves in accord with how we govern ourselves.

Nothing wrong with a libertarian bent. But there's lots wrong with the assumption that it's the purest, best, way to live. It can be extremely harmful to others, and often people care too little

I'm not sure what you read but you're arguing some other post. What does taking on personal risk have to do with polluting a public river? I didn't say "my choice" to put others at risk anywhere. I never said anything about the purest, best way to live. No idea where minimum wage came from.

Disasters mean "temporary" crackdowns on freedoms? Been to an airport lately? You can't fly domestically without government approved papers. FISA court is still around and it's been almost 20 years since 9/11.

I did say that the problem with a pandemic is that it goes against many American's core beliefs. For quarantine to work, you need most onboard. You aren't going to get most onboard and I explained why. I also said that we are generally OK with people risking their own lives but not others in our society and then you made the same point a couple of times.

Here's a proposal that could save us all.

We are 3 months into lock down. Why not just pass a law making masks mandatory forever? it will save lives even after Covid-19 as it will protect those with weak immune systems and it's really not that much of an inconvenience. It will also help us deal with the next Pandemic which could be an existential threat. We could put location tacking with contract tracing in the masks and that would let us know who the spreaders are and we could not only stamp out Covid but most contagious diseases. Imagine getting rid of the flu or chicken pox! The idea would be that once a person is suspected to be contagious, they are forced to shelter in place until they could be escorted to quarantine and treated until deemed safe. It's probably the best way to preserve everyone's freedom from getting sick.

[willandi]

I'm not sure what you read but you're arguing some other post. What does taking on personal risk have to do with polluting a public river? I didn't say "my choice" to put others at risk anywhere. I never said anything about the purest, best way to live. No idea where minimum wage came from.

Disasters mean "temporary" crackdowns on freedoms? Been to an airport lately? You can't fly domestically without government approved papers. FISA court is still around and it's been almost 20 years since 9/11.

I did say that the problem with a pandemic is that it goes against many American's core beliefs. For quarantine to work, you need most onboard. You aren't going to get most onboard and I explained why. I also said that we are generally OK with people risking their own lives but not others in our society and then you made the same point a couple of times.

Here's a proposal that could save us all.

We are 3 months into lock down. Why not just pass a law making masks mandatory forever? it will save lives even after Covid-19 as it will protect those with weak immune systems and it's really not that much of an inconvenience. It will also help us deal with the next Pandemic which could be an existential threat. We could put location tacking with contract tracing in the masks and that would let us know who the spreaders are and we could not only stamp out Covid but most contagious diseases. Imagine getting rid of the flu or chicken pox! The idea would be that once a person is suspected to be contagious, they are forced to shelter in place until they could be escorted to quarantine and treated until deemed safe. It's probably the best way to preserve everyone's freedom from getting sick.

WE NEVER HAD A LOCKDOWN!

[tinfoilzag]

WE NEVER HAD A LOCKDOWN!

You keep confusing a lock down with martial law in all of your posts. What you keep calling for is a suspension of laws with military rule; that's martial law.

[willandi]

You keep confusing a lock down with martial law in all of your posts. What you keep calling for is a suspension of laws with military rule; that's martial law.

You keep confusing a lockdown with some states and some counties having an unenforced quarantine where people just did what they want with no repercussions.

There was no lockdown.

[MDABE80]

Dixie, I hope you're right. From my vantage point, it's hard to see.

[TexasZagFan]

Dixie, I hope you're right. From my vantage point, it's hard to see.

Have a question for you, Abe...if our hospitals are maxing out over Covid, then why did Baylor Health just lay off over 1000 people (one of whom is my physician)? There's a dichotomy here I seem to be missing.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/he...9-fb5652a0b2c6

Thanks for asking, but I thoroughly enjoyed my walk last night...90 degrees, very comfortable. Dozens of people were out on the trail, maybe a third were wearing masks, which IMO is worse for them health-wise, because they're recycling their CO2. My wife can't wear a mask for more than a few minutes without getting lightheaded.

[bballbeachbum]

Have a question for you, Abe...if our hospitals are maxing out over Covid, then why did Baylor Health just lay off over 1000 people (one of whom is my physician)? There's a dichotomy here I seem to be missing.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/he...9-fb5652a0b2c6

Thanks for asking, but I thoroughly enjoyed my walk last night...90 degrees, very comfortable. Dozens of people were out on the trail, maybe a third were wearing masks, which IMO is worse for them health-wise, because they're recycling their CO2. My wife can't wear a mask for more than a few minutes without getting lightheaded.

I know you didn't ask me for my opinion, but the research I've done on this indicates our for profit health care system bears its share of responsibility

While the number of local COVID-19 cases has been lower than feared, the financial effects from the pandemic and the lockdown have been severe.

“We experienced a dramatic drop in patient volumes — between 50 and 90%, depending upon where they sought care,” Baylor CEO Jim Hinton told employees in a video message. The company’s first instinct was to protect workers, he said, so it pledged to keep paying everyone through May. But that won’t be sustained beyond the first week of June, despite an improvement in business in the past several weeks.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...rlough-others/

[caduceus]

Have a question for you, Abe...if our hospitals are maxing out over Covid, then why did Baylor Health just lay off over 1000 people (one of whom is my physician)? There's a dichotomy here I seem to be missing.

Ooh, ohh, me, me. I can answer this one. Not everyone in a hospital deals with infectious disease. In fact, during normal times, a very, very small percentage do. Now that hospitals are getting OVERWHELMED with sick patients that have COVID-19, the busy people are the internists and ID (infectious dz) specialists, the ER docs, geriatricians, and the intensivists. Everybody else (surgeons, endocrinologists, psychiatrists, primary care, and so on) has virtually nothing to do or patients to see. And it's mainly because this virus is so dangerous that everybody else is staying the hell home, even if they have some other illness that might necessitate hospitalization.

Couple that with the fact that governments are halting non-urgent procedures because when the hospitals are so full with patients that they're practically falling out the windows, you have no room or resources or PPD to deal with the botox people. (I jest, because there are plenty of patients that need important procedures that are "non-urgent" aka elective. But if you don't have gowns and gloves or sanitizer or treatment rooms or available nurses or N95 masks or recovery rooms because they are filled with patients on ventilators, or anesthesiologists because they are too busy intubating patients in respiratory failure....welllllll). I didn't mention the loading docks filled with refrigerated trucks when they bring out the dead. Happened in NY, and probably will elsewhere.

When it's all hands on deck, you don't worry about what's going on in the galley (I know you're Army, not Navy, but I knew you'd get it).

[tinfoilzag]

You keep confusing a lockdown with some states and some counties having an unenforced quarantine where people just did what they want with no repercussions.

There was no lockdown.

I see where your confusion is. When you say "unenforced quarantine", who do you think would enforce a national quarantine? We don't have a federal police force. We are a collection of states with most law enforcement coming at state and county levels.

An elected sheriff is the highest law enforcer in their county and has law enforcement powers exceeding that of any other state or federal officials.

If you wanted to force everyone to follow the same mandates nationwide, you would have to suspend the authority of state and local groups which would require enforcement to come from the only source that would have the capabilities to enforce these types of mandates, which would be the military. This action is called declaring martial law, not 'lockdown'.

The US does have a general lock down and the lock down protocols are coming from the states based on federal guidelines and specific state situations. It's not uniform but that's by design as every state is different.

The solution you keep repeating in your posts is not possible under our system (9th and 10th amendment).

[willandi]

I see where your confusion is. When you say "unenforced quarantine", who do you think would enforce a national quarantine? We don't have a federal police force. We are a collection of states with most law enforcement coming at state and county levels.

An elected sheriff is the highest law enforcer in their county and has law enforcement powers exceeding that of any other state or federal officials.

If you wanted to force everyone to follow the same mandates nationwide, you would have to suspend the authority of state and local groups which would require enforcement to come from the only source that would have the capabilities to enforce these types of mandates, which would be the military. This action is called declaring martial law, not 'lockdown'.

The US does have a general lock down and the lock down protocols are coming from the states based on federal guidelines and specific state situations. It's not uniform but that's by design as every state is different.

The solution you keep repeating in your posts is not possible under our system (9th and 10th amendment).

I beg to differ on almost every level, but you won't change my mind and I won't change yours, so I will drop it.

[DZ]

I see where your confusion is. When you say "unenforced quarantine", who do you think would enforce a national quarantine? We don't have a federal police force. We are a collection of states with most law enforcement coming at state and county levels.

An elected sheriff is the highest law enforcer in their county and has law enforcement powers exceeding that of any other state or federal officials.

If you wanted to force everyone to follow the same mandates nationwide, you would have to suspend the authority of state and local groups which would require enforcement to come from the only source that would have the capabilities to enforce these types of mandates, which would be the military. This action is called declaring martial law, not 'lockdown'.

The US does have a general lock down and the lock down protocols are coming from the states based on federal guidelines and specific state situations. It's not uniform but that's by design as every state is different.

The solution you keep repeating in your posts is not possible under our system (9th and 10th amendment).

Look up the Supremacy clause.

The Sheriff is the highest law enforcement official in a county enforcing certain codified crimes. When it comes to enforcing federal law, federal enforcement takes priority of the sheriff's power.

Generally you are right in that the States generally care for the common welfare of the citizens.

But the Sheriff doesn't enforce FAA regulations at the airport, doesn't enforce immigration laws with respect to illegal immigration, doesn't enforce complex interstate crime under federal law done by the FBI, doesn't get in the way of the ATF, nor enforce DEA violations, or criminal pollution overseen by the EPA. If there was a declaration of a federal emergency, all law enforcement would be called upon to enforce federal law. The sheriff would serve alongside and co-equal to federal law enforcement.

[TexasZagFan]

Ooh, ohh, me, me. I can answer this one. Not everyone in a hospital deals with infectious disease. In fact, during normal times, a very, very small percentage do. Now that hospitals are getting OVERWHELMED with sick patients that have COVID-19, the busy people are the internists and ID (infectious dz) specialists, the ER docs, geriatricians, and the intensivists. Everybody else (surgeons, endocrinologists, psychiatrists, primary care, and so on) has virtually nothing to do or patients to see. And it's mainly because this virus is so dangerous that everybody else is staying the hell home, even if they have some other illness that might necessitate hospitalization.

Couple that with the fact that governments are halting non-urgent procedures because when the hospitals are so full with patients that they're practically falling out the windows, you have no room or resources or PPD to deal with the botox people. (I jest, because there are plenty of patients that need important procedures that are "non-urgent" aka elective. But if you don't have gowns and gloves or sanitizer or treatment rooms or available nurses or N95 masks or recovery rooms because they are filled with patients on ventilators, or anesthesiologists because they are too busy intubating patients in respiratory failure....welllllll). I didn't mention the loading docks filled with refrigerated trucks when they bring out the dead. Happened in NY, and probably will elsewhere.

When it's all hands on deck, you don't worry about what's going on in the galley (I know you're Army, not Navy, but I knew you'd get it).

Thanks to you and bum for your response. But what about New York, where the hospital ship was sent home due to lack of patients? Was it mismanagement, misplaced priorities?

I've had a little bit of experience in how to keep things running when the SHTF, and the Army taught me you're a dead man if you just stand around and do nothing. You may be a dead man if you're moving around, too, you just have a better chance at survival. There's little doubt in my mind that the sheer enormity of the situation stalled the decision makers.

The economic effects of this pandemic will be felt for years to come. O/T, I'm pulling my copy of Atlas Shrugged out of my bookcase. Say what you will about Ayn Rand, but she was great at outlining eventual consequences to what were seemingly minor events.

[tinfoilzag]

Look up the Supremacy clause.

The Sheriff is the highest law enforcement official in a county enforcing certain codified crimes. When it comes to enforcing federal law, federal enforcement takes priority of the sheriff's power.

Generally you are right in that the States generally care for the common welfare of the citizens.

But the Sheriff doesn't enforce FAA regulations at the airport, doesn't enforce immigration laws with respect to illegal immigration, doesn't enforce complex interstate crime under federal law done by the FBI, doesn't get in the way of the ATF, nor enforce DEA violations, or criminal pollution overseen by the EPA. If there was a declaration of a federal emergency, all law enforcement would be called upon to enforce federal law. The sheriff would serve alongside and co-equal to federal law enforcement.

Federal law only takes precedence when it is specifically enumerated.

I agree that they would be called upon to enforce federal law for a "temporary" period in the event of a disaster. In a "normal" disaster, they would help. But this is not a hurricane or earthquake and this is not something where resources contribute to ending the disaster. Actually stopping activity and not working closely with community members is what helps. This event does not share characteristics with other disasters.

What happens when "temporary" is defined in years? Not getting in the way of federal agencies is very different than working for and with federal agencies (ask California). You're going to ask local law enforcement to enforce federal mandates at the same time you tell them to stand down during riots? Your going to say arrest people for unauthorized behavior while you work to defund their departments?

There was a chance to stop this early but once elected officials realized the death count would be in the .5% range instead of the 5% range and that they and their families would be safe, they saw it as a political opportunity and acted accordingly. This fact is recognized by a part of the US population and now they won't work with mandates as they see it in bad faith.

For a lot of Americans, the risk of COVID is not severe enough to give up their livelihoods and liberty and this will be reflected in state and local law enforcement as they serve the local communities and not the feds. This may make some feel like these people don't care about others but the fact is that people work in their own self-interest, including politicians.

[zagamatic]

If you have one of those conditions you mention and catch COVID-19 your likelihood of dying while having COVID-19 increases dramatically. These are people that would be alive without COVID-19 and then die when they have it.

I understand your point, but these people did NOT HAVE COVID19. And yet they are being counted as deaths from the virus.

[MDABE80]

Ooh, ohh, me, me. I can answer this one. Not everyone in a hospital deals with infectious disease. In fact, during normal times, a very, very small percentage do. Now that hospitals are getting OVERWHELMED with sick patients that have COVID-19, the busy people are the internists and ID (infectious dz) specialists, the ER docs, geriatricians, and the intensivists. Everybody else (surgeons, endocrinologists, psychiatrists, primary care, and so on) has virtually nothing to do or patients to see. And it's mainly because this virus is so dangerous that everybody else is staying the hell home, even if they have some other illness that might necessitate hospitalization.

Couple that with the fact that governments are halting non-urgent procedures because when the hospitals are so full with patients that they're practically falling out the windows, you have no room or resources or PPD to deal with the botox people. (I jest, because there are plenty of patients that need important procedures that are "non-urgent" aka elective. But if you don't have gowns and gloves or sanitizer or treatment rooms or available nurses or N95 masks or recovery rooms because they are filled with patients on ventilators, or anesthesiologists because they are too busy intubating patients in respiratory failure....welllllll). I didn't mention the loading docks filled with refrigerated trucks when they bring out the dead. Happened in NY, and probably will elsewhere.

When it's all hands on deck, you don't worry about what's going on in the galley (I know you're Army, not Navy, but I knew you'd get it).

Only is some places Cad. Cedars Sinai is far from full........Sacred Heart in Spokane reduced us to elective procedures anticipating a huge rush of COVID afflictions. As you probably know Sacred Heart is the biggest in the State. They held us off from operating and semi surgical procedures were deemed elective. Trouble is, the overwhelming rush of COVID never happened. I don't know how things are where you are...but the media reports are oversold in many places. As it sits now, there are those areas like TX ( not the majority in TX either).....FL, etc. that are getting huge volumes of COVID types......I do believe it's a minority in the US though.

As with the graphs I posted yesterday, death rates are down but infections are up. Hard to square those two but maybe the infections will end up in hospital..

Anyway, best wishes. I do not think we will ever stop this without the standard precautions. In Spokane, there are 1.2 million people in a 60 mile radius of the downtown area. We had precations taken and the numbers were low for both death and new cases. Philadelphia Macaroni had an explosion of cases ( young folks working without distancing or masks) and then the bars opened without requiring masks and distancing plus no hand washing) and that group had and large outburst of cases. All this indicates that we still need the usual precautions or we're asking for trouble....Again , best wishes...your contributions here and on this topic are mighty!!!

[kitzbuel]

I understand your point, but these people did NOT HAVE COVID19. And yet they are being counted as deaths from the virus.

Can you point me to that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[caduceus]

Thanks to you and bum for your response. But what about New York, where the hospital ship was sent home due to lack of patients? Was it mismanagement, misplaced priorities?

The ship wasn't used because it was sent with the stipulation that it would take non-COVID patients only. Huge mistake. While the brick and mortar hospitals were being overrun with COVID-19, a lot of NYers that needed other care stayed home (and probably many died at home -- news reports indicate that, but we probably won't know all the data for months).