Race thread (will be moved on Monday night)

[LongIslandZagFan]

He did provide context. Plenty of it. You just didn't like it.

His point was that death by police officer in this country is a rarity and the media has created a false representation of the issue. The number of deaths that occur with unarmed people is amazingly low no matter what color and the percentages by race don't match the narrative the media is flogging.

I provided context in my response. Go back.. read what I said. It isn’t the number it is the rate. But it seems like that doesn’t matter to you on this. Black deaths at the hands of police is NOT proportionate to their percentage of society. Oh, and by the way. Just one unarmed person dying at the hands of an LEO is one too many regardless of color and regardless skin color.

[LongIslandZagFan]

Why are you unable to name other races who dined in similar manner. Media drives the narrative maybe?

Tony timpa was killed at hands of police calling for help..knee in back for 30 minutes. Not a word by national media. Wrongful death bad tactics. Cold blooded jokes during the incident yet not a word amongst others

I could list 30 of these cases in all different races because I happen to engage in review of all deaths like this to find common causes and provide advanced training to prevent future incidents no matter who as I took oath to protect all in a fair, consistent manner

If we want a truly balanced justice for all we need to look at all these issues and make changes but cant have a civil, deep dialogue with media narrative driving public perception

Again one wrong death is one too many

Help me understand why the stats of deadly force per arrest is out of context.....violent arrests is the highest risk and by far the most use of force incidents for officers and the stats show that

First off, arrest is not the same as conviction. Plus there is this... a black man is 7 times more likely to be wrongfully convicted of murder. 75% of those are due to police misconduct. Three and a half times more likely to be wrongfully convicted of sexual assault. Does that qualify as context?

As to adding other races in... I don’t think you would want me to. Blacks are already out of proportion and if I start adding in Latinos it will only hurt your position not help

[Hoopaholic]

First off, arrest is not the same as conviction. Plus there is this... a black man is 7 times more likely to be wrongfully convicted of murder. 75% of those are due to police misconduct. Three and a half times more likely to be wrongfully convicted of sexual assault. Does that qualify as context?

As to adding other races in... I don’t think you would want me to. Blacks are already out of proportion and if I start adding in Latinos it will only hurt your position not help

Sidestepped my question.......?

[JPtheBeasta]

There was 1.2 million violent crimes committed in 2019
with 521,000 arrests for these violent crimes: 212,000 white males 129,000 African American Males

Of these VIOLENT crime arrest only .00005% of all arrests required use of deadly force

Of these ViOLENT CRIME ARRESTS 1 white male was killed for every 1,075 arrested 1 african american male was killed for every 1,749 violent crime arrests

Of these VIOLENT CRIME arrests 1 unarmed white male was killed for every 20,840 arrests 1 unarmed african american male was killed for every 34,734 violent crime arrests

These particular stats tell more of the story than simply looking at the percentage of blacks and whites and comparing the number of incidents. In a 2018 report, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, blacks made up 12% of the population but were involved in 22% of the violent crimes. I think that the missing link is likely poverty. According to the BJS (again), poor whites were equally likely to participate in so-called "non-fatal violent victimization"

[Hoopaholic]

These particular stats tell more of the story than simply looking at the percentage of blacks and whites and comparing the number of incidents. In a 2018 report, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, blacks made up 12% of the population but were involved in 22% of the violent crimes. I think that the missing link is likely poverty. According to the BJS (again), poor whites were equally likely to participate in so-called "non-fatal violent victimization"

Poverty is absolutely a sociological factor, lack of hope,lack of. Role model or mentors, lack of structure, lack of discipline are others that seem to play into the poor choices made by those engaged in crime

But 70% recidivism rate is also an area that IMO needs to be addressed despite trillions of dollars in rehab programs, housing etc once released

[LongIslandZagFan]

Sidestepped my question.......?

Not sidestepping I’ll gladly calculate it out... website lists every single one with links to news reports. Will take a bit of time to crunch the numbers but if you want it.. gladly do it for you. But likely won’t help your point

[Hoopaholic]

Not sidestepping I’ll gladly calculate it out... website lists every single one with links to news reports. Will take a bit of time to crunch the numbers but if you want it.. gladly do it for you. But likely won’t help your point

did you know about timpa? If not do you find that odd?

My point was during violent arrests far less likely to be killed by police if you are African American than Caucasian.....completely opposite than the media narrative

...so if systemic why would these racist cops bypass the opportunity to kill during a violent offense arrest?

[LongIslandZagFan]

Poverty is absolutely a sociological factor, lack of hope,lack of. Role model or mentors, lack of structure, lack of discipline are others that seem to play into the poor choices made by those engaged in crime

But 70% recidivism rate is also an area that IMO needs to be addressed despite trillions of dollars in rehab programs, housing etc once released

Poverty is an issue... but the high incarceration rates for low level offenders, especially for black men, creates a feedback loop where felons cannot find jobs with living wages and end up in the same boat. I also think prisons the way we do them in the US hardens people into worse criminals than before.

[LongIslandZagFan]

did you know about timpa? If not do you find that odd?

My point was during violent arrests far less likely to be killed by police if you are African American than Caucasian.....completely opposite than the media narrative

...so if systemic why would these racist cops bypass the opportunity to kill during a violent offense arrest?

But again, how about being killed in non-violent situations. Jmho the reason may have more to do with the talk and they are less likely to fight.

[Hoopaholic]

Poverty is an issue... but the high incarceration rates for low level offenders, especially for black men, creates a feedback loop where felons cannot find jobs with living wages and end up in the same boat. I also think prisons the way we do them in the US hardens people into worse criminals than before.

If low level its not a felony and they don’t go to prison, they go to jails

Myth that low level make up majority of prisoners. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...faff-locked-in

And yes we agree the prison and jail system and what occurs inside them needs overhauling as it simply is a warehouse and no change in behaviorist occurs as demonstrated by the 70% recidivism rate

[Hoopaholic]

But again, how about being killed in non-violent situations. Jmho the reason may have more to do with the talk and they are less likely to fight.

Side stepped again. Did you know about the timpa murder? If not do you find it strange never seen in any media

[MDABE80]

BLM and antifa took over 7 blocks of Seattle’s Capital Hill today and tonight. They clIm it for their own including the police station. When, knowing how these groups operate, does the law enforcement go in and take it back?) this is the pathway they have chosen.

[Hoopaholic]

BLM and antifa took over 7 blocks of Seattle’s Capital Hill today and tonight. They clIm it for their own including the police station. When, knowing how these groups operate, does the law enforcement go in and take it back?) this is the pathway they have chosen.

Armed guards at each intersection
Conducting extortion of business demanding 500 dollars or they Weill run them out

Find it an interesting hypcoracy that they want to “demilitarize” police such as rifles but all their “security” are armed with rifles

Ugly situation but communities get what they vote for

[LongIslandZagFan]

Side stepped again. Did you know about the timpa murder? If not do you find it strange never seen in any media

No... would you like me to list names of Black people killed by police not in the national news? Will gladly do that for you

[willandi]

BLM and antifa took over 7 blocks of Seattle’s Capital Hill today and tonight. They clIm it for their own including the police station. When, knowing how these groups operate, does the law enforcement go in and take it back?) this is the pathway they have chosen.

How do you know it was Antifa?

[ZagDad84]

These particular stats tell more of the story than simply looking at the percentage of blacks and whites and comparing the number of incidents. In a 2018 report, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, blacks made up 12% of the population but were involved in 22% of the violent crimes. I think that the missing link is likely poverty. According to the BJS (again), poor whites were equally likely to participate in so-called "non-fatal violent victimization"

Sunday morning, I was waiting for the NASCAR race to come on and Fox's Sunday news program was just finishing up. Chris Wallace asked the panel if they thought that if real change for the African American community was going to come out from any police reform. The black male on the panel said absolutely not. He said violence between the African American community and the police only accounted for 2-4% of the total amount of violence within the African American community. You could totally eliminate any police-African American community and it would only make a small blip in the overall violence that occurs within the African American community.

As Hoopaholic has continued to maintain, the percentage of use of excessive force or lethal force is a very, very small percentage of the total number police-citizen interactions. Social media, TV media and print media among others continue to escalate the scale of the issue. That being said, I am all for any improvements in policing that will lead to people of all races, creeds, genders being treated equally and if the African American community wants to lead the charge, I am all for it.

LIZF,

Police killed 1004 people in 2019 and black males made up 24% of those killed while making up 13% of the population.

You must be running for public office. Just like the Dems and Repubs, when the numbers don't support your position, then look at percentages.

As to adding other races in... I don’t think you would want me to. Blacks are already out of proportion and if I start adding in Latinos it will only hurt your position not help

What do you think Hoopaholic's position is?

Just curious, because I don't know what his position is and through my lenses, I don't think he has a specific position other than to show that a lot of what is being published, televised, discussed on social media is not supported by the facts.

I don't see too many people arguing that members of the African American community are disproportionally pulled over, arrested, tried and convicted compared to their raw numbers of the population. I think everybody would likely agree with the above.

The ideal goal is to eliminate any unnecessary use of excessive force and/or lethal force by the local Leos, no matter who the victim is. As you said, even one death at the hands of the Leos is too many. Why does it matter if more whites are killed by Leos or the percentage of being killed is greater if your black?

The issue is to get reform accomplished, so not one person is killed at the hand of the Leos.

ZagDad

[MDABE80]

I saw them, I asked. So?

[LongIslandZagFan]

I saw them, I asked. So?

Just want to be clear. They said to you that they were ANTIFA?

[Hoopaholic]

How do you know it was Antifa?

Because their spokesperson said it was a combination of antifa and blm. Several times now

[LongIslandZagFan]

Sunday morning, I was waiting for the NASCAR race to come on and Fox's Sunday news program was just finishing up. Chris Wallace asked the panel if they thought that if real change for the African American community was going to come out from any police reform. The black male on the panel said absolutely not. He said violence between the African American community and the police only accounted for 2-4% of the total amount of violence within the African American community. You could totally eliminate any police-African American community and it would only make a small blip in the overall violence that occurs within the African American community.

As Hoopaholic has continued to maintain, the percentage of use of excessive force or lethal force is a very, very small percentage of the total number police-citizen interactions. Social media, TV media and print media among others continue to escalate the scale of the issue. That being said, I am all for any improvements in policing that will lead to people of all races, creeds, genders being treated equally and if the African American community wants to lead the charge, I am all for it.

LIZF,



You must be running for public office. Just like the Dems and Repubs, when the numbers don't support your position, then look at percentages.



What do you think Hoopaholic's position is?

Just curious, because I don't know what his position is and through my lenses, I don't think he has a specific position other than to show that a lot of what is being published, televised, discussed on social media is not supported by the facts.

I don't see too many people arguing that members of the African American community are disproportionally pulled over, arrested, tried and convicted compared to their raw numbers of the population. I think everybody would likely agree with the above.

The ideal goal is to eliminate any unnecessary use of excessive force and/or lethal force by the local Leos, no matter who the victim is. As you said, even one death at the hands of the Leos is too many. Why does it matter if more whites are killed by Leos or the percentage of being killed is greater if your black?

The issue is to get reform accomplished, so not one person is killed at the hand of the Leos.

ZagDad

WHAT???? First off... for the record... a percentage is a number. Second... a base number without any context to what that number represents loses it's meaning.

What do you have an issue with? The fact that blacks make up 12.8% of the population or that 24% of the people killed by an LEO are black?

It matters because it is an indication that something isn't right... period. If all things are the same... the percentages SHOULD follow the demographics of the country. They don't. Black people are more likely to die at the hands of a LEO. Those percentages you don't like... they tell you that story... just like the raw numbers tell you how many... the percentages give you a better understanding.

Lets put it in basketball terms. If I told you player X made 100 3 pointers in a season... that may sound great. But I told you he took 1000 of them to get to that number... suddenly it isn't so great. Percentages matter because they give you the context of the raw number.

[LongIslandZagFan]

Because their spokesperson said it was a combination of antifa and blm. Several times now

Please share a link

[Hoopaholic]

[QUOTE=LongIslandZagFan;1520811]Please share a link[/https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-antifa-mob-planning-to-take-over-more-seattle-neighbourhoods

https://www.joshwho.net/antifa-relea...g-police-dept/

https://www.city-journal.org/antifa-...utonomous-zone

Plus several very close friends still on department in the intelligence field

[CB4]

Folks. It's simple. If you disagree with what happened to George Floyd, go to a protest this weekend. Wear something you'd wear to a ballgame and walking shoes. Dont wear anything political. Go in the morning. Look for the other older clean cut white people and walk with them. See what it's all about. I think you'll be surprised at what's really going on out there each day. If you don't like it, you'll have good dinner conversation.

Question, did any of the old timers on here March in the civil rights marches in the 60s?

[MDABE80]

Lots of people .... this is not going to end well. Bad guys have automatic weapons.

[Hoopaholic]

Folks. It's simple. If you disagree with what happened to George Floyd, go to a protest this weekend. Wear something you'd wear to a ballgame and walking shoes. Dont wear anything political. Go in the morning. Look for the other older clean cut white people and walk with them. See what it's all about. I think you'll be surprised at what's really going on out there each day. If you don't like it, you'll have good dinner conversation.

Question, did any of the old timers on here March in the civil rights marches in the 60s?

Actually spent time and discussion last weekend with 8 different protests that occurred in and around the tacoma county city building to include helping provide safe area for the Ellis family and their press conference

Absolutely zero issue with those exercising their constitutional rights (to include the dude with ar15 slungover shoulder at prot4est) so long as you do it peacefully and within the context of the constitution