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Thread: Race thread (will be moved on Monday night)

  1. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    Be a little careful here. Police Officers have been killed conducting routine traffic stops. The officer pulls over a driver for a burned out taillight, not using a blinker, in any case a simply moving violation. The policeman has no idea that the driver has a warrant out for his arrest, has drugs in the car, etc.

    I am sure Hoopaholic can give you numerous examples of the above.

    ZagDad
    A very good friend working motors, stopped car for running stop sign and was shot in chest. Paralyzed for life
    Another officer stopped car for speeding and driver opened fire
    Both those occurred in the “sleepy” are a of north seattle

    I tried to stop car for stop sign violation at 3 am in morning capital hill......wouldn’t stop, pursuit that ended up going down 405 towards Renton..car crashed all suspects bailed chased driver got into a knock down dragged out fight (I ended up with 8 stitches in wrist and 22 stitches on my back as we fought bouncing off a barbed wired fence......come to find out two of the four had killed a guard, raped another and escaped from juvenile center in Oregon.....

    Can give hundred examples of “routine” traffic stop that go sideways verify quickly.......
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonuvazag View Post
    I'm envisioning a scenario where the traffic cop would not have the responsibility to apprehend that person or search the vehicle. And that person would know he was in no immediate danger of being apprehended.
    I can understand that position but in reality it does not protect the employee.....lost count how many times I responded to a parking enforcement officer being assaulted by the vehicle owner........
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    I can understand that position but in reality it does not protect the employee.....lost count how many times I responded to a parking enforcement officer being assaulted by the vehicle owner........
    I think the question is in how many of those incidents is it absolutely crucial for the officer to be armed? And how often does the officer being armed and tasked with detaining people under certain circumstances lead to an escalation that wouldn't otherwise happen?

    And, ultimately, could the general public feel safer having less interactions with LEOs that are armed? Here's where I'm wondering where the libertarians are at.
    Agent provocateur

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinfoilzag View Post
    I did not. I read the synopsis of the recommendation and saw that is was a drama (I was expecting a documentary). It looks interesting but it didn't look like it would shed any light on the problem.
    You should watch "13th".

    Some notable quotes from the movie:

    “You want to know what this [the war on drugs] was really all about? The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did." John Ehrlichman, Nixon's domestic policy chief.

    "You start out in 1954 by saying, “N****r, n****r, n****r.” By 1968 you can’t say “n****r”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites...." -- Lee Atwater, advisor to Reagan, on the Southern Strategy (AKA how to win the votes of racists when you can't be obvious about it).

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    I’m posting a video that is Not Safe For Work Or children that is close to my feelings about white privilege. I agree with Bill Maher maybe 5% of the time and on this topic I’m with him about 90%.

    I apologize to hoop and others for adding a humorous video while they discuss something that is literally deadly serious.


    https://www.facebook.com/Maher/video...96646014/?vh=e

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonuvazag View Post
    I think the question is in how many of those incidents is it absolutely crucial for the officer to be armed? And how often does the officer being armed and tasked with detaining people under certain circumstances lead to an escalation that wouldn't otherwise happen?

    And, ultimately, could the general public feel safer having less interactions with LEOs that are armed? Here's where I'm wondering where the libertarians are at.
    When I first got engaged in LE in 1979 it was common to have about 100 Community Service Officers (CSO) that handled many of the low level quality of life issues (noise, neighbor disputes, parking, social type of issues) and not a sworn officer. Then when they were being assaulted at a very high rate of response to calls, courts through L&I, WISHA and OSHA rulings determined the city was not doing all they could to provide “reasonable protection” to these employees so the option was
    1. Train them and arm them
    2. Send them with sworn officer
    3. Disband and shift responsibilities back to LE

    City chose number 3

    Pendulum is swing back and we are seeing a combination of options from above

    For example Spokane has a mixed use team, sworn officer riding with a social worker and they are the first responder to readily identifiable mental health types of calls or if cop arrives and determines mental health is underlining cause for call this team arrives and handles all way through the process

    Seattle was considering going back to CSO deployment

    I am in agreement that many of the quality of life issues could be and probably should be handled by non sworn LEO the question is how to balance the safety and security of those people because stats are clear they are subject to violence outbursts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    I am in agreement that many of the quality of life issues could be and probably should be handled by non sworn LEO the question is how to balance the safety and security of those people because stats are clear they are subject to violence outbursts
    It seems to me like it's worth exploring. As usual, I would expect the finer points to be hashed out by people with more expertise than me.

    Have you already commented on the Grossman training? It's getting discussed a lot here in Spokane because Knezovich wants to bring him in, but I'm curious about your thoughts.
    Agent provocateur

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonuvazag View Post
    It seems to me like it's worth exploring. As usual, I would expect the finer points to be hashed out by people with more expertise than me.

    Have you already commented on the Grossman training? It's getting discussed a lot here in Spokane because Knezovich wants to bring him in, but I'm curious about your thoughts.
    As an individual who has been involved in the killing of two persons and use of deadly force in several incidents, the mental health of those who end up using deadly force is a real issue and being mentally prepared for engagement at the right time as well as long term mental acuity as it pertains to self recognition of the moral, legal and spiritual act of the use of force is very important to an individuals long term health. Suicide rates are very high amongst LE, divorces rates, disengagement from family structure etc are all symptoms of not being mentally strong as it pertains to not only our actions but our day in day out dealings with some of the worst that society has to offer and that can take a toll

    A lot of Grossman training is good, but I think it goes a little far in the warrior mentality as I am firmly entrenched LE must find the balance of warrior mentality (for the right situations and facts) and guardian mentality and I don’t think his curriculum provides that balance.
    Basketball...The Toy Department of Life

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    As an individual who has been involved in the killing of two persons and use of deadly force in several incidents, the mental health of those who end up using deadly force is a real issue and being mentally prepared for engagement at the right time as well as long term mental acuity as it pertains to self recognition of the moral, legal and spiritual act of the use of force is very important to an individuals long term health. Suicide rates are very high amongst LE, divorces rates, disengagement from family structure etc are all symptoms of not being mentally strong as it pertains to not only our actions but our day in day out dealings with some of the worst that society has to offer and that can take a toll

    A lot of Grossman training is good, but I think it goes a little far in the warrior mentality as I am firmly entrenched LE must find the balance of warrior mentality (for the right situations and facts) and guardian mentality and I don’t think his curriculum provides that balance.
    This all makes a lot of sense. Thanks!
    Agent provocateur

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    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    I’m posting a video that is Not Safe For Work Or children that is close to my feelings about white privilege. I agree with Bill Maher maybe 5% of the time and on this topic I’m with him about 90%.

    I apologize to hoop and others for adding a humorous video while they discuss something that is literally deadly serious.


    https://www.facebook.com/Maher/video...96646014/?vh=e
    I can't stand Maher. I don't say this lightly, but he is unapologetically an anti-Muslim bigot.

    He's right in this case. There is an over-the-topness in how some white liberals express shame about being white. At the same time, you could just as easily highlight how the behavior of some conservatives is actually downright shameful with regards to race. I'm not sure in either case that the sample is accurately representative of the whole.
    Agent provocateur

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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    Sonuvazag - you ask good questions. And your private messages are full.
    I deleted a bunch so maybe it's not now.
    Agent provocateur

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    I think I'm going to make one last post in this thread and be done. Not because this isn't a worthy conversation, but I think what I'm about to share succintly and accurately represents my feelings on what is wrong in our discourse in 2020.

    I posted earlier that 9 black people in 2018 were killed by police who were not armed or fleeing from police. It is awful that those 9 people were killed.

    Also in 2018, 7407 black people were murdered. That exceeds 50% of the total number of individuals murdered in our country. 2018 was not an anomaly in terms of this statistic. White privilege didn't murder 7000 people. If it exists, systemic racism in our police departments or in our justice system didn't murder 7000 people. For the most part, white people didn't murder all of those black people. Statistically, those 7407 black people murdered had a better than 90% chance of being murdered by a black person.

    Has there ever been a 436 (and counting) post thread about this problem facing the black community? I used to post in the now non existent political OCC forum on this board. I don't ever recall seeing or participating in a thread debating that topic that was this big or had this much passion burned into it.

    What about the pervasive poverty that has gone on for decades in my hometown and in many poor communities, but especially black communities, in our country? Poverty, as sure as the nose on my face, leads to high rates of criminal behavior and contributes more than any other cause to 7000 people being murdered in 2018. The police and the justice system didn't create that poverty. Yet, hear we are (me too!) in a 436 post thread about the racist police and racist justice system.

    Has there been a 436 post thread debating the fact that 2 parent households in the black community dropped from around 80% in the 1960's to 37% today? Has anyone cared to review the advantages of a two parent household on the occupants of that household and the community at large?

    We have discussed white privilege, but is anyone going to bring up Asian privilege. Did you know that Asian Americans have the highest household income in the US? Did you know that 84% of Asian children grow up in 2 parent households? Do you know that household income of Asians is double that of black households?

    Has there been an impassioned discussion about reading and math proficiency among black students and the fact that it statistically lags Asian and White proficiency by a factor of half or worse?

    I'm as guilty as all of you. The problem that we are having is that we are debating the wrong topic.

    God Bless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    I think I'm going to make one last post in this thread and be done. Not because this isn't a worthy conversation, but I think what I'm about to share succintly and accurately represents my feelings on what is wrong in our discourse in 2020.

    I posted earlier that 9 black people in 2018 were killed by police who were not armed or fleeing from police. It is awful that those 9 people were killed.

    Also in 2018, 7407 black people were murdered. That exceeds 50% of the total number of individuals murdered in our country. 2018 was not an anomaly in terms of this statistic. White privilege didn't murder 7000 people. If it exists, systemic racism in our police departments or in our justice system didn't murder 7000 people. For the most part, white people didn't murder all of those black people. Statistically, those 7407 black people murdered had a better than 90% chance of being murdered by a black person.

    Has there ever been a 436 (and counting) post thread about this problem facing the black community? I used to post in the now non existent political OCC forum on this board. I don't ever recall seeing or participating in a thread debating that topic that was this big or had this much passion burned into it.

    What about the pervasive poverty that has gone on for decades in my hometown and in many poor communities, but especially black communities, in our country? Poverty, as sure as the nose on my face, leads to high rates of criminal behavior and contributes more than any other cause to 7000 people being murdered in 2018. The police and the justice system didn't create that poverty. Yet, hear we are (me too!) in a 436 post thread about the racist police and racist justice system.

    Has there been a 436 post thread debating the fact that 2 parent households in the black community dropped from around 80% in the 1960's to 37% today? Has anyone cared to review the advantages of a two parent household on the occupants of that household and the community at large?

    We have discussed white privilege, but is anyone going to bring up Asian privilege. Did you know that Asian Americans have the highest household income in the US? Did you know that 84% of Asian children grow up in 2 parent households? Do you know that household income of Asians is double that of black households?

    Has there been an impassioned discussion about reading and math proficiency among black students and the fact that it statistically lags Asian and White proficiency by a factor of half or worse?

    I'm as guilty as all of you. The problem that we are having is that we are debating the wrong topic.

    God Bless.
    Yes, the irony is that because the black community is more frequently victimized by violent crime, they're also calling on the police to help them more often per capita. This was one of the points I remember Hoop making to explain to me why there was a greater police presence in black communities, a possible factor in why black people are more likely to be cited for marijuana possession.

    But BLM is nonetheless using this moment to ask for a different kind of police presence. And the goal of defunding the police is to reallocate that funding to proactive community building which would address the issues of poverty you raise. At the very least, I can see where they're trying to go with this and it's clear they understand how poverty is a factor.
    Agent provocateur

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    with re. to any discussion about the % of people who commit what % of crime, and therefore how that impacts how they are policed, there's a lot of data that shows racial profiling and how. I already linked the Princeton study which is all about this aspect of the discussion.


    here's one from Stanford, 2020, a wonderfully conceived method to gain accurate measurement in my opinion, and very compelling to me
    https://news.stanford.edu/2020/05/05...traffic-stops/

    and this, a study link trove on the subject
    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016...ce-racial-bias

    Here's a quote from one finding
    A 2014 analysis of Illinois Department of Transportation data by the American Civil Liberties Union found the following: “African American and Latino drivers are nearly twice as likely as white drivers to be asked during a routine traffic stop for ‘consent’ to have their car searched. Yet white motorists are 49% more likely than African American motorists to have contraband discovered during a consent search by law enforcement, and 56% more likely when compared to Latinos.”

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    re. poverty's impact, and also educational achievement, there is an abundance of data. I just about completed my Masters of Secondary Education, and the focus on this aspect of any equation re. minorities and education is deep, insightful.

    the realities of poverty/education and racial discrimination are not mutually exclusive though, they are intertwined, and neither excuses the other but instead exacerbate each other. That understanding would be a fundamental breakthrough if universal

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    Quote Originally Posted by bballbeachbum View Post
    re. poverty's impact, and also educational achievement, there is an abundance of data. I just about completed my Masters of Secondary Education, and the focus on this aspect of any equation re. minorities and education is deep, insightful.

    the realities of poverty/education and racial discrimination are not mutually exclusive though, they are intertwined, and neither excuses the other but instead exacerbate each other. That understanding would be a fundamental breakthrough if universal
    For those of you that live outside the south, it is very difficult for you to understand the covert racism that continues to exist. Poverty among African Americans is high through out the south and their educational opportunities are hindered as well.

    I have lived on and off in the south for nearly 27 years. I taught school in Louisiana [Health & PE; Special Ed (Gifted and Talented); Typing; and Introduction to Business] and South Carolina [Special Ed (Learning Disabled - LED)]. Understand that South Carolina, Louisiana and Mississippi seemed to "fight to the death" each year to see which could be ranked 50th in the country in making a poor attempt at educating their students. In Louisiana the Special Education Class size was limited to 10 students and in South Carolina class size was unlimited! I had 25 LED boys (16 of which were Bloods or Crips) in my classroom for all six periods with one Teacher's Aide that had a high school education, in a school that had 1000 kids, which included one white girl and one Asian boy. I had six freshman, nine sophomores, eight juniors and two seniors. Initially there was one girl in the class but she was reclassified and sent to another Special Ed class. Not all 25 kids were truly LED but rather six were the rest just couldn't read on level and were eventually placed in Special Education because they were disruptive in their "on-grade" classrooms. There were no text books of any kind so I had to scramble and get a nearby elementary school to give me text books...one from each grade 3rd-6th grade. I had to make copies of each course that I had to teach, because this was high school, American History, science, math, english, language arts and reading. Facing the school, my classroom was the last classroom on the left and adjacent to the staff parking lot - WHICH touched the school's boundary! Why was that important, well there was a white neighborhood next to our school and NONE of those kids went to our school but had to be bused to the predominantly white school located about six miles away. That school district drew the school districts lines intentionally so those white kids didn't have to go to the overwhelmingly "BLACK" school. These school boundaries were drawn sometime after desegregation. This is what also happened in Louisiana as well, where all but one of the high schools are predominantly BLACK...that one school was where most of the white kids went!

    Some South Carolina history, 25 years ago the rural school districts (which are predominantly black) in South Carolina sued the State Department of Education wanting equal funding. The case went to court and was bounced around for 20 years before the State Supreme Court finally ruled in their favor. With this ruling, these districts felt they could finally get equality for they schools; however, the Speaker of the Assembly chose not to honor the Supreme Court ruling but rather chose to pay the fine incurred upon the state instead of increasing their funding allocation as it was cheaper to do so. So these school districts continue to be under funded and without these funds, these districts can't afford to pay their teachers at the same level urban districts are paying their educations and they continue to lack technology, texts and facilities so these kids are not treated equally; therefore, these kids are finding it extremely difficult to find decent paying jobs. Where I now live, jobs at WalMart and fast food restaurants are like legacy jobs, because they just don't have the education and funds to get into college as they have to work to feed their house holds.

    Yes, there is a much higher number of single parent homes in the African American communities here in the south just as there is in large urban centers. In my class of 25 kids there were three kids that had both parents. The others had single mothers that for the most part, had to work two jobs so the kids were being raised by their grandmothers. After my first Parent-Teacher conference, I quickly realized that the mothers that did attend had difficulties themselves, which made it extremely difficult for them to assist their children with the 3R's. So essentially, it was like the blind leading the blind; subsequently, it was easy to see that these kids were not going to have the same opportunities of the kids going to the predominantly white high school, that was newer and better funded.

    Teaching at this school was so discouraging, because I didn't have the necessary tools I felt were needed to give these kids a break. I desperately tried to get these kids to be able to read at the 6th grade level so they could fill out a job application and most were able by the time I left but these kids just didn't know know "how to win in the game of LIFE" and would most probably, if they were not already in a gang, would join a gang so that they belonged to something.

    In the Low Country where I now reside, after desegregation private-christian schools began springing up and so the White Flight began. We have eight public high schools and close to ten private-christian schools, where of course teachers are paid better and they have less disciplinary issues in the classrooms.

    IMO equal educational opportunities for African Americans here in South Carolina will not be achieve in my lifetime and most probably the next generation. The status quo will be maintained!

    Those of us that have two parents and were able to go to properly funded schools were fortunate and we should be very grateful for those opportunities.

    So Black Lives Matter just doesn't pertain to policing but also to educational opportunities. Some way, some how this merry-go-round needs to stop and to do so we (as a country) have to find a way to change and correct these daily problems that Balck Americans face in their everyday lives...
    Last edited by Bogozags; 06-13-2020 at 04:13 AM. Reason: An error in the number of years...27 vice 37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogozags View Post
    For those of you that live outside the south, it is very difficult for you to understand the covert racism that continues to exist. Poverty among African Americans is high through out the south and their educational opportunities are hindered as well.

    I have lived on and off in the south for nearly 37 years. I taught school in Louisiana [Health & PE; Special Ed (Gifted and Talented); Typing; and Introduction to Business] and South Carolina [Special Ed (Learning Disabled - LED)]. Understand that South Carolina, Louisiana and Mississippi seemed to "fight to the death" each year to see which could be ranked 50th in the country in making a poor attempt at educating their students. In Louisiana the Special Education Class size was limited to 10 students and in South Carolina class size was unlimited! I had 25 LED boys (16 of which were Bloods or Crips) in my classroom for all six periods with one Teacher's Aide that had a high school education, in a school that had 1000 kids, which included one white girl and one Asian boy. I had six freshman, nine sophomores, eight juniors and two seniors. Initially there was one girl in the class but she was reclassified and sent to another Special Ed class. Not all 25 kids were truly LED but rather six were the rest just couldn't read on level and were eventually placed in Special Education because they were disruptive in their "on-grade" classrooms. There were no text books of any kind so I had to scramble and get a nearby elementary school to give me text books...one from each grade 3rd-6th grade. I had to make copies of each course that I had to teach, because this was high school, American History, science, math, english, language arts and reading. Facing the school, my classroom was the last classroom on the left and adjacent to the staff parking lot - WHICH touched the school's boundary! Why was that important, well there was a white neighborhood next to our school and NONE of those kids went to our school but had to be bused to the predominantly white school located about six miles away. That school district drew the school districts lines intentionally so those white kids didn't have to go to the overwhelmingly "BLACK" school. These school boundaries were drawn sometime after desegregation. This is what also happened in Louisiana as well, where all but one of the high schools are predominantly BLACK...that one school was where most of the white kids went!

    Some South Carolina history, 25 years ago the rural school districts (which are predominantly black) in South Carolina sued the State Department of Education wanting equal funding. The case went to court and was bounced around for 20 years before the State Supreme Court finally ruled in their favor. With this ruling, these districts felt they could finally get equality for they schools; however, the Speaker of the Assembly chose not to honor the Supreme Court ruling but rather chose to pay the fine incurred upon the state instead of increasing their funding allocation as it was cheaper to do so. So these school districts continue to be under funded and without these funds, these districts can't afford to pay their teachers at the same level urban districts are paying their educations and they continue to lack technology, texts and facilities so these kids are not treated equally; therefore, these kids are finding it extremely difficult to find decent paying jobs. Where I now live, jobs at WalMart and fast food restaurants are like legacy jobs, because they just don't have the education and funds to get into college as they have to work to feed their house holds.

    Yes, there is a much higher number of single parent homes in the African American communities here in the south just as there is in large urban centers. In my class of 25 kids there were three kids that had both parents. The others had single mothers that for the most part, had to work two jobs so the kids were being raised by their grandmothers. After my first Parent-Teacher conference, I quickly realized that the mothers that did attend had difficulties themselves, which made it extremely difficult for them to assist their children with the 3R's. So essentially, it was like the blind leading the blind; subsequently, it was easy to see that these kids were not going to have the same opportunities of the kids going to the predominantly white high school, that was newer and better funded.

    Teaching at this school was so discouraging, because I didn't have the necessary tools I felt were needed to give these kids a break. I desperately tried to get these kids to be able to read at the 6th grade level so they could fill out a job application and most were able by the time I left but these kids just didn't know know "how to win in the game of LIFE" and would most probably, if they were not already in a gang, would join a gang so that they belonged to something.

    In the Low Country where I now reside, after desegregation private-christian schools began springing up and so the White Flight began. We have eight public high schools and close to ten private-christian schools, where of course teachers are paid better and they have less disciplinary issues in the classrooms.

    IMO equal educational opportunities for African Americans here in South Carolina will not be achieve in my lifetime and most probably the next generation. The status quo will be maintained!

    Those of us that have two parents and were able to go to properly funded schools were fortunate and we should be very grateful for those opportunities.

    So Black Lives Matter just doesn't pertain to policing but also to educational opportunities. Some way, some how this merry-go-round needs to stop and to do so we (as a country) have to find a way to change and correct these daily problems that Balck Americans face in their everyday lives...
    Thank you for your effort. You saved some.

    When my Father taught at the U of Montana, he taught a freshman geography course. Routinely, he said, he had Black athletes that knew the course material, as evidenced in class, that would bomb on the tests. He began by giving them an oral exam to prove that they knew the material, and when it was proved they did. He based their grade on that. THEN he taught them how to take tests.

    He retired as Emeritus, and a Lt Bird in the Air Force, 45 years earlier.
    It's not funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonuvazag View Post
    Yes, the irony is that because the black community is more frequently victimized by violent crime, they're also calling on the police to help them more often per capita. This was one of the points I remember Hoop making to explain to me why there was a greater police presence in black communities, a possible factor in why black people are more likely to be cited for marijuana possession.

    But BLM is nonetheless using this moment to ask for a different kind of police presence. And the goal of defunding the police is to reallocate that funding to proactive community building which would address the issues of poverty you raise. At the very least, I can see where they're trying to go with this and it's clear they understand how poverty is a factor.
    One of their core tenants is to eliminate the two parent household......I cant support that element or platform of the group
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogozags View Post
    For those of you that live outside the south, it is very difficult for you to understand the covert racism that continues to exist. Poverty among African Americans is high through out the south and their educational opportunities are hindered as well.

    I have lived on and off in the south for nearly 37 years. I taught school in Louisiana [Health & PE; Special Ed (Gifted and Talented); Typing; and Introduction to Business] and South Carolina [Special Ed (Learning Disabled - LED)]. Understand that South Carolina, Louisiana and Mississippi seemed to "fight to the death" each year to see which could be ranked 50th in the country in making a poor attempt at educating their students. In Louisiana the Special Education Class size was limited to 10 students and in South Carolina class size was unlimited! I had 25 LED boys (16 of which were Bloods or Crips) in my classroom for all six periods with one Teacher's Aide that had a high school education, in a school that had 1000 kids, which included one white girl and one Asian boy. I had six freshman, nine sophomores, eight juniors and two seniors. Initially there was one girl in the class but she was reclassified and sent to another Special Ed class. Not all 25 kids were truly LED but rather six were the rest just couldn't read on level and were eventually placed in Special Education because they were disruptive in their "on-grade" classrooms. There were no text books of any kind so I had to scramble and get a nearby elementary school to give me text books...one from each grade 3rd-6th grade. I had to make copies of each course that I had to teach, because this was high school, American History, science, math, english, language arts and reading. Facing the school, my classroom was the last classroom on the left and adjacent to the staff parking lot - WHICH touched the school's boundary! Why was that important, well there was a white neighborhood next to our school and NONE of those kids went to our school but had to be bused to the predominantly white school located about six miles away. That school district drew the school districts lines intentionally so those white kids didn't have to go to the overwhelmingly "BLACK" school. These school boundaries were drawn sometime after desegregation. This is what also happened in Louisiana as well, where all but one of the high schools are predominantly BLACK...that one school was where most of the white kids went!

    Some South Carolina history, 25 years ago the rural school districts (which are predominantly black) in South Carolina sued the State Department of Education wanting equal funding. The case went to court and was bounced around for 20 years before the State Supreme Court finally ruled in their favor. With this ruling, these districts felt they could finally get equality for they schools; however, the Speaker of the Assembly chose not to honor the Supreme Court ruling but rather chose to pay the fine incurred upon the state instead of increasing their funding allocation as it was cheaper to do so. So these school districts continue to be under funded and without these funds, these districts can't afford to pay their teachers at the same level urban districts are paying their educations and they continue to lack technology, texts and facilities so these kids are not treated equally; therefore, these kids are finding it extremely difficult to find decent paying jobs. Where I now live, jobs at WalMart and fast food restaurants are like legacy jobs, because they just don't have the education and funds to get into college as they have to work to feed their house holds.

    Yes, there is a much higher number of single parent homes in the African American communities here in the south just as there is in large urban centers. In my class of 25 kids there were three kids that had both parents. The others had single mothers that for the most part, had to work two jobs so the kids were being raised by their grandmothers. After my first Parent-Teacher conference, I quickly realized that the mothers that did attend had difficulties themselves, which made it extremely difficult for them to assist their children with the 3R's. So essentially, it was like the blind leading the blind; subsequently, it was easy to see that these kids were not going to have the same opportunities of the kids going to the predominantly white high school, that was newer and better funded.

    Teaching at this school was so discouraging, because I didn't have the necessary tools I felt were needed to give these kids a break. I desperately tried to get these kids to be able to read at the 6th grade level so they could fill out a job application and most were able by the time I left but these kids just didn't know know "how to win in the game of LIFE" and would most probably, if they were not already in a gang, would join a gang so that they belonged to something.

    In the Low Country where I now reside, after desegregation private-christian schools began springing up and so the White Flight began. We have eight public high schools and close to ten private-christian schools, where of course teachers are paid better and they have less disciplinary issues in the classrooms.

    IMO equal educational opportunities for African Americans here in South Carolina will not be achieve in my lifetime and most probably the next generation. The status quo will be maintained!

    Those of us that have two parents and were able to go to properly funded schools were fortunate and we should be very grateful for those opportunities.

    So Black Lives Matter just doesn't pertain to policing but also to educational opportunities. Some way, some how this merry-go-round needs to stop and to do so we (as a country) have to find a way to change and correct these daily problems that Balck Americans face in their everyday lives...
    Wow power and thank you truly sad and yes opportunity needs to be addressed
    Basketball...The Toy Department of Life

    Don't mess wth happy...Coach Few

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    Bogo I knew you are very impressive when I spent time with you and your lovely wife. Amazing guy. Thanks for spending time writing on this thread.! Amazing people we have on this board. I have to say that I. Grateful LIZ left the thread here. Just a fine group we have

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    Focusing back on the title of this thread... I ask posters the following:

    What (all time) Gonzaga Bulldog would win in a Race?

    100m
    200m
    400m
    800m
    1500m
    10,000m
    Marathon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogozags View Post
    ..
    God bless you.

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    Bo, stunning indictment of a state that I’m certain is sadly true of other states as well. The problems seem implacable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    Wow power and thank you truly sad and yes opportunity needs to be addressed
    Where I live, the poorer the district, more money is allocated. Teacher to student ratio is greater and more aids and support staff. Maybe it’s a Washington state thing. This isn’t Seattle where the parents can subsidize the DistrIct like Mercer Island. It’s more common to have more money allocated to lower income Districts, however, save for the few affluent Districts (again, like a Mercer Island). Money spent on the District is actually a poor predictor of success. Two parent households and full-time occupation are much better predictors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Bo, stunning indictment of a state that I’m certain is sadly true of other states as well. The problems seem implacable.
    Jazz there are plans to open a deep water port across from Savannah in about 5-10 years and the area is going to require skilled labor to build and maintain the facilities; however, the labor force will be coming from out-of-state because the education system will not be able to produce the base for this labor force. The overall Quality of Life in the Northwest just can't be compared with South Carolina. At least Georgia has a "carrot" they dangle in front of the kids, that if they have a "B" average, the state will subsidize part of the costs of their college education. The two biggest employers in the Low Country are Wal Mart (2) and Sams, which are predominantly staffed by African Americans. In addition, African Americans are bused from another county to Hilton Head Island to work in the service industries (restaurants and hotels/motels) because there are not enough un-skilled labor on the Island to work those low skill/low paying jobs.

    Systematic racism continues to prevail here, it is just a product of everyday life...

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