Race thread (will be moved on Monday night)

[LongIslandZagFan]

So, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AytF_YSkXDU

Or this?

[former1dog]

Thanks for the information...

Per a U of Mich law school study. A black male is 7 times more likely to be wrongfully convicted of murder... 75% of those are directly related to police misconduct. Take those for what they are... Not going to bother with the back and forth... just offering information.

I would be interested in looking at violent crime rates based on income level.

I'm not familiar with the study.

I will post sometime in the future on systemic racism based on disparate impact that I do think exists. Namely in the welfare system and in mandatory minimum sentencing. I think problems in welfare distribution and mandatory minimum sentencing literally make the idea of systemic racism among police a joke.

[vandalzag]

Bad= a group of individuals who take over 7 blocks of property (including a police precinct) they don't own......and use/threaten force to protect what they don't own. Simple enough I hope. Common sense helps.

Per the interivew on KIRO the indidvuals who were armed in front of the precinct said they were there to protect the precinct. I guess because they did not look like the citizens below from Idaho they did not get the benefit of the doubt regarding their intentions.


Here are some examples of truly bad people

Look at these to vandalizing public property.



This lady is trying to end capitalism.

[scrooner]

Or this?

Sure, but those guys aren't protesting against excessive police force, they just want to get haircuts.

[realtydog]

come on willandi??? do better---- so much of Tanya's story is conveniently left out--these type of graphics are very very misleading ---especially since we (the public) are locked into headlines and not full stories---this graphic is only meant to infuse more division and anger

[former1dog]

I really don't want to get into stupid back and forths. Meme's, photo's of dudes with guns without context, personal anecdotes and smarmy comebacks are no substitute for respectful intelligent dialogue, especially in a community that tangentially represents Gonzaga University. If I engage any of you, I intend to respect that you're coming from a sincere place and treat you accordingly. Please, bring your best. These are important discussions. Lets be adults.

[LongIslandZagFan]

I'm not familiar with the study.

I will post sometime in the future on systemic racism based on disparate impact that I do think exists. Namely in the welfare system and in mandatory minimum sentencing. I think problems in welfare distribution and mandatory minimum sentencing literally make the idea of systemic racism among police a joke.

Systemic racism would be something along the lines of the fact that blacks are almost 4 times as likely to be convicted of marijuana possession than a white person even though nearly every study on usage shows that regardless of color the density of people using within the populations is almost identical. That felony possession means they do time, get out, can't find work to make a living wage due to felony conviction. Now that black person is in a feedback loop of poverty and crime that is hard to break. Systemic racism doesn't mean all cops are racist... it is just that justice isn't server equally and much of it has everything to do with skin color.

[willandi]

come on willandi??? do better---- so much of Tanya's story is conveniently left out--these type of graphics are very very misleading ---especially since we (the public) are locked into headlines and not full stories---this graphic is only meant to infuse more division and anger

I don't know the rest of the story. Please fill me in.

I know that memes do not contain a lot of the information, but several of the posts I, and others, have made about white privilege have been ignored or discounted. Please explain why THIS meme does not signify another variation of white privilege.

Thank you.

[kitzbuel]

I really don't want to get into stupid back and forths. Meme's, photo's of dudes with guns without context, personal anecdotes and smarmy comebacks are no substitute for respectful intelligent dialogue, especially in a community that tangentially represents Gonzaga University. If I engage any of you, I intend to respect that you're coming from a sincere place and treat you accordingly. Please, bring your best. These are important discussions. Lets be adults.

Agreed. Let's try keeping this to informed thinking and opining. There are more than enough memes and pictures plastered on Facebook and Twitter.

[LongIslandZagFan]

Agreed. Let's try keeping this to informed thinking and opining. There are more than enough memes and pictures plastered on Facebook and Twitter.

Fair enough.

[vandalzag]

I don't know the rest of the story. Please fill me in.

I know that memes do not contain a lot of the information, but several of the posts I, and others, have made about white privilege have been ignored or discounted. Please explain why THIS meme does not signify another variation of white privilege.

Thank you.

The Huffman and Aunt Becky cases are about money and celebrity. The celebs wanted their kids to go to name schools for which they did not qualify, so they used their money to game the system. Their light as a feather punishment was because they could afford the level of council connected and skilled enough to make it happen. As stated earlier. Tanya's sentence was a combo for drug offences and the school thing, plus she had prior convictions. That being said if Tanya had celebrity money she does not do anything close to 5 years. This meme should be used to describe economic disparity in the criminal justice system and racial discord.

[scrooner]

Systemic racism doesn't mean all cops are racist... it is just that justice isn't server equally and much of it has everything to do with skin color.

Thank you. I don't think anyone is claiming or even implying that all cops are racist, but people are making defenses as if that's what the argument is about. To me, when I think of the problem as being 'systemic', it means that even when a cop has been identified as a 'bad apple', it is far too difficult within the current system to remove the apple.

[kitzbuel]

Some of us were telling old war stories earlier and I missed out.

When I was a either a senior Captain or junior Major, I was driving from a week at Dover Air Force Base back to Virginia. Another officer from my unit was riding with me, he was African American. We were driving through central Delaware and eastern Maryland; bucolic, rural farmland with lots of corn and bean fields, occasional horse farms. I think we wanted to stop for lunch along the way and we needed some cash. As we drove through some small town, I looked down the main street and saw a little community bank, so I turned in to use the ATM. The both of us hopped out and went into the bank lobby and used the ATM.

As we pulled out of the parking lot my buddy turned to me and said there was no way in the world he would have ever stopped at that bank if I had not been there. I asked why not, rather bemused. He said because he would probably get arrested.

I don't know what the likelihood of that happening was, but it was enough a concern to him that he said he wouldn't take the risk. Now I know I feel confident stopping anywhere in DC to us an ATM or get gas; NE, SE. I would certainly pay attention and would take stock of my surroundings, particularly at night, but if I have to I do it.

My question is why does another Officer in the US Military have to feel afraid about stopping at a bank to use an ATM in America?

So, any answers to this?

[sonuvazag]

This article makes the same point the John Oliver video did. The police are overburdened by responsibilities we don't necessarily need an armed officer for. Give it a read if you can't stand John Oliver.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...police/612913/

[sonuvazag]

So, any answers to this?

My answer is it is something we as a society should work on in good faith. Even if you acknowledge and accept Hoop and F1D's statistics, and even if you believe there is less to fear in reality than is often perceived, we have to show that we are willing to do something to address those fears.

[TexasZagFan]

Agreed. Let's try keeping this to informed thinking and opining. There are more than enough memes and pictures plastered on Facebook and Twitter.

+1, I'm so relieved that Paw Patrol isn't being suspended, after all.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/10/a...onal-cops.html

Big D loved Chase, when he was 4 or 5. Alas, time rolls on, and he rolls his eyes when I remind him, "Chase is on the Case."

[LongIslandZagFan]

So, any answers to this?

Not and answer per se but... if there is a question about whether systemic racism exists... his fear is fairly good evidence of its existence

[former1dog]

My answer is it is something we as a society should work on in good faith. Even if you acknowledge and accept Hoop and F1D's statistics, and even if you believe there is less to fear in reality than is often perceived, we have to show that we are willing to do something to address those fears.

What is being lost in all of this is what happened prior to the protests, riots, etc. in response to George Floyd's killing. I have yet to hear any reasonable person from any perspective refute that what happened to George Floyd was an abomination. White, Black, Asian, Hispanic, Democrat, Republican, Trump, Biden, Ben Shapiro, Rachel Maddow all agree that #### like this shouldn't happen in our country. The justice system has moved at record speed in this case. We had maybe 24 hours of complete unity in this country before it all went to hell, when is the last time that happened?

I think if we could remember those 24 hours. Realize what that meant, we can grow as a society.

[sonuvazag]

What is being lost in all of this is what happened prior to the protests, riots, etc. in response to George Floyd's killing. I have yet to hear any reasonable person from any perspective refute that what happened to George Floyd was an abomination. White, Black, Asian, Hispanic, Democrat, Republican, Trump, Biden, Ben Shapiro, Rachel Maddow all agree that #### like this shouldn't happen in our country. The justice system has moved at record speed in this case. We had maybe 24 hours of complete unity in this country before it all went to hell, when is the last time that happened?

I think if we could remember those 24 hours. Realize what that meant, we can grow as a society.

I agree. The civil unrest shouldn't change people's minds about right and wrong and the need for reform. I've seen people post, "You people lost me when you started rioting." My response was: "If, FOR ANY REASON, you can waver on whether it's OK for the police to murder civilians in the street, you were never really down for the cause."

[LongIslandZagFan]

What is being lost in all of this is what happened prior to the protests, riots, etc. in response to George Floyd's killing. I have yet to hear any reasonable person from any perspective refute that what happened to George Floyd was an abomination. White, Black, Asian, Hispanic, Democrat, Republican, Trump, Biden, Ben Shapiro, Rachel Maddow all agree that #### like this shouldn't happen in our country. The justice system has moved at record speed in this case. We had maybe 24 hours of complete unity in this country before it all went to hell, when is the last time that happened?

I think if we could remember those 24 hours. Realize what that meant, we can grow as a society.

Also lost is what happened in Flint. Not one riot. Why? The sheriff didn’t go in swinging batons and firing tear gas. They joined they marchers. Perhaps the heavy handed approach by police is part of the cause of the riots

[realtydog]

I don't know the rest of the story. Please fill me in.

I know that memes do not contain a lot of the information, but several of the posts I, and others, have made about white privilege have been ignored or discounted. Please explain why THIS meme does not signify another variation of white privilege.

Thank you.

don't be lazy, you obviously have the internet ---her criminal history is public, as well as the coinciding charges for the 5 years mentioned within the meme that you posted ----please do better at not pouring gas on fires with false narratives, this helps nobody

[willandi]

The Huffman and Aunt Becky cases are about money and celebrity. The celebs wanted their kids to go to name schools for which they did not qualify, so they used their money to game the system. Their light as a feather punishment was because they could afford the level of council connected and skilled enough to make it happen. As stated earlier. Tanya's sentence was a combo for drug offences and the school thing, plus she had prior convictions. That being said if Tanya had celebrity money she does not do anything close to 5 years. This meme should be used to describe economic disparity in the criminal justice system and racial discord.

Thank you. Were the drug offenses for pot, or harder drugs.

It still seems like the rich people have skated because of money and celebrity, and as Hoop said, sentencing should be from the book, not suggestions (I did paraphrase that).

[willandi]

don't be lazy, you obviously have the internet ---her criminal history is public, as well as the coinciding charges for the 5 years mentioned within the meme that you posted ----please do better at not pouring gas on fires with false narratives, this helps nobody

Please help people read the non inflammatory links that I and others have posted, and respond accordingly. They have the internet and they can read.
Several of the posts about white privilege have been ignored. Please help them read them. It would help the conversation if they responded to those as well.

[realtydog]

Thank you. Were the drug offenses for pot, or harder drugs.

It still seems like the rich people have skated because of money and celebrity, and as Hoop said, sentencing should be from the book, not suggestions (I did paraphrase that).

agreed on the set sentencing

but, I would rather hit people like Huffman with zero jail time and make her pay through the nose-----let "high earners...earn" and pay a ####load in fines --use the money for goods & services for disadvantaged folks--
putting her in a soft jail for 14 days is worthless---- $2 million in fines would hurt----

[willandi]

agreed on the set sentencing

but, I would rather hit people like Huffman with zero jail time and make her pay through the nose-----let "high earners...earn" and pay a ####load in fines --use the money for goods & services for disadvantaged folks--
putting her in a soft jail for 14 days is worthless---- $2 million in fines would hurt----

I would like to do both. $2 million and 2 years hard time. Loss of all the rights that felons lose.