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Thread: Race thread (will be moved on Monday night)

  1. #101
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    Why include the snark to begin with in a civil discussion?

    If you don't believe there is such thing as white privilege, you are part of the problem. But at least you are happy to live with that.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    White and poor are still more privileged than a black middle class man... white and poor doesn't get pulled over for being poor and white... doesn't get stopped and frisked for being poor and white... doesn't get cops called on them for being poor and white in public... that middle class black man... not living that reality at all.

    Also, lumping BLM in with Antifa is disingenuous at best.
    I got pulled over 2 to 3 times a week in my broken down car. I got told to take my contact out liz. They saw my broken down car and would pull me over. This happened for a year straight until i could afford a non broken down looking car. So i will disagree on white and poor. The rest i agree
    Love the zags for life

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kong-Kool-Aid View Post
    Why include the snark to begin with in a civil discussion?

    If you don't believe there is such thing as white privilege, you are part of the problem. But at least you are happy to live with that.
    Sorry just trying to add some levity.

  4. #104
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    The name on this thread is Gonzaga Basketball and Race. Where we might not all agree on the "Race" part, I think there are valid points by many of you. Where I do think we all agree on the "Gonzaga Basketball" part of it is - We all truly love our Zags!!!!!!
    Last edited by jsnider; 06-05-2020 at 12:25 PM.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kong-Kool-Aid View Post
    Why include the snark to begin with in a civil discussion?

    ------->If you don't believe there is such thing as white privilege, you are part of the problem.<---- But at least you are happy to live with that.
    Says who? Sounds like logic gone array......

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    Great ideas, will. This thread has been making me reflect more, to seek to be more open minded on the path forward.
    Thank you. I am still hoping that those that feel they have identified the problem, chime in with their ideas to improve.
    We can't just say racism is against the law. That won't work. It has to start at the bottom and educate all people on how to improve, and it will take time. In my opinion, of course.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bogozags View Post
    willandi - This is probably the best description of BLM and for those that don't understand that should re-watch this wonderful video you found...THANK YOU for dotting the "i's" and crossing the "t's"...
    Thanks. I first heard it driving to work on the Danny and Gallant show, 1510 ESPN. I thought it really hit home, so sought the clip to share here and on Facebook.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  8. #108
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    For any of you who are interested in gathering more information on the unfamiliar experiences that black people (specifically black college basketball coaches) experience in this country, I highly recommend listening to the CBS Eye on College Sports Podcast. Here is a description of the podcast episode titled "How the killing of George Floyd and the Black Lives Matter protests have created a positive stir for change in college basketball":

    "Today's podcast focuses on the conversations Gary Parrish and Matt Norlander have had with coaches and players in college basketball this week. They touch on first-hand accounts from black coaches and the systemic racism they've encountered at the hands of law enforcement in the past. Parrish wrote this week about Rhode Island coach David Cox. In New Mexico, a team came together to protest peacefully. Norlander at one point references this story, first published at CBS Sports in 2016, where coaches shared their stories of encounters with law enforcement. There is also a movement afoot, sparked by Georgia Tech assistant Eric Reveno (31:00), who tweeted earlier this week that the NCAA should make November's Election Day a mandatory day off for all of college athletics in order to afford players and coaches alike the opportunity and time to vote"


    https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/cbs...etball-podcast


    I feel like it provides some valuable insight into the racial issues in our country and how multimillionaire black coaches, players, and ADs are not immune from that. The end of the episode also brings up Mark Few and his complete support for making election day an NCAA mandated day off for athletes and staffs (whether they actually decide to vote or not).

  9. #109
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    My black friend had his two brothers in his car in airway heights. He got pulled over for no reason and all ordered out of the car. They frisked him and his brothers and then let him go back in the car. The cops saw a nunchuck in floor of car and they arrested all 3 for having a dangerous weapon. They were all released the following day.


    I wouldnt of been arrested. I would of been told to go home and leave that at home.
    Love the zags for life

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zags11 View Post
    I got pulled over 2 to 3 times a week in my broken down car. I got told to take my contact out liz. They saw my broken down car and would pull me over. This happened for a year straight until i could afford a non broken down looking car. So i will disagree on white and poor. The rest i agree
    Difference is... that middle class black man would be pulled over in his new car as opposed to you being pulled over for a potential safety hazard.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinfoilzag View Post
    I think we've identified the problem then. I have no faith in "white privilege" "implicit bias" or "social justice" and if I don't believe, I can't be saved (I'll have to live with that). There is a possible solution though.

    Scientology has e-meters that can measure your thetan levels and will cleanse your static field for a fee. If we could get similar e-meters that measure injustice and privilege, we could cleanse people and give the money to non-profit organizations that fight for change or some other platitude.

    All snark aside, I'm glad this board will let people disagree. I don't think anyone's mind will change but if we are talking, we aren't fighting. Go Zags.
    It's unremarkable for a white person to refuse to acknowledge white privilege. While not prejudice in itself, it is willful blindness. It's white people who do acknowledge it, or are at least open to trying to empathize with a position they have no experiential basis in who are moving society towards equality.

    As a light-skinned, middle-eastern male, I experience glimpses of both worlds depending on how people perceive me; I experience occasional weird moments that I are explicitly attributed to my vague ethnicity (I had a French woman ask me if I was American because I cut the line to join some friends and Americans don't do that, apparently), but I also enjoy broad privilege as a white male, when I am perceived as such. I am grateful that I don't experience anything past weird moments, such as regular, life-threatening hatred because of my skin tone, and see that prejudice widespread in our country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Go Zags!!!

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post
    It's unremarkable for a white person to refuse to acknowledge white privilege. While not prejudice in itself, it is willful blindness. It's white people who do acknowledge it, or are at least open to trying to empathize with a position they have no experiential basis in who are moving society towards equality.

    As a light-skinned, middle-eastern male, I experience glimpses of both worlds depending on how people perceive me; I experience occasional weird moments that I are explicitly attributed to my vague ethnicity (I had a French woman ask me if I was American because I cut the line to join some friends and Americans don't do that, apparently), but I also enjoy broad privilege as a white male, when I am perceived as such. I am grateful that I don't experience anything past weird moments, such as regular, life-threatening hatred because of my skin tone, and see that prejudice widespread in our country.
    It's unremarkable in history to scapegoat a prosperous middle class . This happened to the Kulak's in Russia, more recently to the Boer's in South Africa. Collectivists don't know how to raise people out of poverty so they have to bring everyone else down so there can be "equality". It never turns out well.

    I can't believe the woke position right now it to condemn a group based solely on race with the term "White privilege". Too much irony.
    We are on this earth to live, not to avoid death.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kong-Kool-Aid View Post
    Pretty simple really, acknowledge your privilege, be willing to let go of that privilege to allow others the same opportunities.
    What does it mean to let go of your privilege?

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    What does it mean to let go of your privilege?
    😆 l Lololol Its cultural and nebulous.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinfoilzag View Post
    It's unremarkable in history to scapegoat a prosperous middle class . This happened to the Kulak's in Russia, more recently to the Boer's in South Africa. Collectivists don't know how to raise people out of poverty so they have to bring everyone else down so there can be "equality". It never turns out well.

    I can't believe the woke position right now it to condemn a group based solely on race with the term "White privilege". Too much irony.
    The reason the middle class and the poor are here is because the guy that takes 99 out of 100 cookies is pitting the other two against each other.
    The concentration of wealth at the top, the shipping of jobs overseas to be done less expensively, the keeping the minimum wage below a livable wage, only to have more for oneself, is where the problem is.

    Trickle down doesn't. It never has and it never will/
    Last edited by willandi; 06-05-2020 at 08:33 PM.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    😆 l Lololol Its cultural and nebulous.
    Nebulous is a good word. Iím not singling out anyone here but it is hard for me to figure out what is being asked of me on these issues of police brutality and systemic racism issue. I feel that I worked very hard to be where I am and feel more privileged to be born in America to loving parents who stayed together and provided for my basic needs. I do not take that for granted. I also donít take for granted the example they showed, as they both went to college and were good moral examples (in my opinion). They taught me not to be a respector of persons, and for a number of reasons. I am thankful that I was born with average to above average intelligenceó although I respect anyoneís opinion to think otherwise. I was born into a situation to have a chance to succeed that many other persons donít. I do feel privileged for so many reasons, but race is at the bottom of that list.

  17. #117
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    Police brutality is an emotional issue that black Americans understand on a gut level and it has seemed to me that many who have tried to parse the actual disparities with data have found it difficult. The simplest advice would be to listen to what the majority of black Americans have to say and trust that it is not all some imagined media phenomenon.

    However, if you still doubt there is such thing as racial inequity in the U.S., consider marijuana possession arrests, something less dangerous and therefore less emotionally charged. We know from data that black Americans use and possess marijuana at about the same rate as the rest of Americans, but are 3.64 times more likely than white people to be arrested for marijuana possession.

    Although it doesn't resonate the same way emotionally for black people whose urgent concern is to let the rest of the country know that they don't feel as safe or protected by police as they would like, I find it a helpful point to make in a forum like this because the marijuana data is so blatent in presenting a systemic racial disparity. If the stats in one area are so overwhelming, is it really that outrageous to believe police are propagating the same inequities in other aspects of their work?

    What does it mean to let go of your white privilege? Yes, it's pretty nebulous, but for me, it means to acknowledge the racial inequity in this country is not imaginary, to be bothered by it as if it were your own family's welfare being threatened by police, and to take some sort of action that will help to make the injustice end.

    If you can't be bothered to believe there's a problem in the first place, of course you're going to think this is all much ado about nothing.
    Last edited by sonuvazag; 06-05-2020 at 07:16 PM.
    Agent provocateur

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinfoilzag View Post
    It's unremarkable in history to scapegoat a prosperous middle class . This happened to the Kulak's in Russia, more recently to the Boer's in South Africa. Collectivists don't know how to raise people out of poverty so they have to bring everyone else down so there can be "equality". It never turns out well.

    I can't believe the woke position right now it to condemn a group based solely on race with the term "White privilege". Too much irony.
    I never condemned the middle class. In fact, I’m not arguing for or against a class of people. I’m arguing for people to consider the nuance of the individual experiences of people you can’t experience. You should only feel condemned if you’re not willing to acknowledge a wrong that you’ve never experienced. I am a member of the middle class, but that doesn’t mean I can’t try to understand others perspectives.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Go Zags!!!

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Difference is... that middle class black man would be pulled over in his new car as opposed to you being pulled over for a potential safety hazard.
    We serious bro? Lol. My car wasnt a hazard. I was profiled. Was i racially profiled? Probably not. Was i profiled for vehicle and hoping i had no insurance and what not? Yes i was.
    Love the zags for life

  20. #120
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    LIZ is being conjectural. Remember fellas it isn’t correct or accurate just because somebody says it.

  21. #121
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    This thread is making me ill.

    As a man that once swore an oath to defend our constitution and served with distinction, I find it difficult to even rise for the national anthem anymore. This "representative" government has not aligned with my ethical expectations for a very long time and it has never been worse than it is right now.

    I have never been more ashamed of my once beloved nation and the symbolic flag waving in the face of constitutional crisis is rich. Very, very rich. We are politically polarized into a downward spiral and my eyes are seeing videos of various and diverse topics that do not align with the political narratives. The polarization has gotten that bad. It is all about the political narratives. Not what my eyes are showing me. Just sickening.
    Last edited by MickMick; 06-05-2020 at 10:26 PM.
    I miss Mike Hart

  22. #122
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    I agree with some Mick. The media is selling it’s preferred version and it’s not what I see with my own eyes.its like the nation is being gaslighted.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    I agree with some Mick. The media is selling it’s preferred version and it’s not what I see with my own eyes.its like the nation is being gaslighted.
    Unfortunately, we are being gaslighted. There are agitators (foreign and domestic) who want to see the nation divided and there are corporations that instill fear and panic to raise viewership numbers and revenue (24 hours cable news). We had a massive FBI investigation telling us so, but people instead politicized the living daylight out of it. It's the sad world we live in and younger generations will have to figure out how to navigate it. The best way I have found to navigate it is by using logic to authenticate what I encounter and making decisions that benefit the human dignity of myself and others (that's what Gonzaga stands for right?)

  24. #124
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    Fr. Bryan N. Massingale is the James and Nancy Buckman Professor of Theological and Social Ethics at Fordham University in New York. He is also the Senior Ethics Fellow in Fordhamís Center for Ethics Education. Massingale is a past convener of the Black Catholic Theological Symposium and a former president of the Catholic Theological Society of America. He is the author of Racial Justice and the Catholic Church.

    Fr. Massingale wrote an opinion essay published in the National Catholic Reporter on June 1, 2020, wherein he addresses the Amy Cooper incident, including this excerpt:

    She knew what she was doing. And so do we. The situation is completely "legible" as my academic colleagues would say. What did she and rest of us know? Why did she act as she did?

    • She assumed that her lies would be more credible than his truth.
    • She assumed that she would have the presumption of innocence.
    • She assumed that he, the black man, would have a presumption of guilt.
    • She assumed that the police would back her up.
    • She assumed that her race would be an advantage, that she would be believed because she is white. (By the way, this is what we mean by white privilege).
    • She assumed that his race would be a burden, even an insurmountable one.
    • She assumed that the world should work for her and against him.
    • She assumed that she had the upper hand in this situation.
    • She assumed that she could exploit deeply ingrained white fears of black men.
    • She assumed that she could use these deeply ingrained white fears to keep a black man in his place.
    • She assumed that if he protested his innocence against her, he would be seen as "playing the race card."
    • She assumed that no one would accuse her of "playing the race card," because no one accuses white people of playing the race card when using race to their advantage.
    • She assumed that he knew that any confrontation with the police would not go well for him.
    • She assumed that the frame of "black rapist" versus "white damsel in distress" would be clearly understood by everyone: the police, the press and the public.
    • She assumed that the racial formation of white people would work in her favor.
    • She assumed that her knowledge of how white people view the world, and especially black men, would help her.
    • She assumed that a black man had no right to tell her what to do.
    • She assumed that the police officers would agree.
    • She assumed that even if the police made no arrest, that a lot of white people would take her side and believe her anyway.
    • She assumed that Christian Cooper could and would understand all of the above.


    (And she was right. He clearly knew what was at stake, which is why he had the presence of mind to record what happened).
    The entire article is here: https://www.ncronline.org/news/opini...1NLGevcIho9hTw

    It is a 10-15 minute read. I found it the most thought provoking commentary of my entire week.

  25. #125
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    Interesting series of points


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