Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 32

Thread: WCC Member Colleges - Financial Health Grades

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Eastern WA
    Posts
    21

    Default WCC Member Colleges - Financial Health Grades

    A friend is a long-time college admissions coach, and she recently mentioned her advisory team is counselling HS seniors to not apply to colleges with a "D grade" financial rating. In 2019, according to Forbes, there was one WCC college that ranked that low, as shown on the list below. I'm not sure what the ratings are for the WCC schools today, but the COVID-19 pandemic may drop some or all of these ratings even further. I've also read that some prognosticators believe up to 50% of the colleges in the US will close or merge with others to stay afloat in the coming years. What will be the fate of the WCC schools?


    College Financial Health Grades - Forbes - Nov 27, 2019
    WCC Member College State Financial GPA Financial Grade
    Brigham Young University UT 4.01 A
    Santa Clara University CA 2.95 B
    Pepperdine University CA 2.91 B
    University of San Diego CA 2.68 B-
    University of Portland OR 2.64 B-
    Gonzaga University WA 2.62 B-
    University of San Francisco CA 2.29 C+
    Loyola Marymount University CA CA 2.20 C+
    University of the Pacific CA 2.13 C
    Saint Mary's College of CA CA 1.48 D

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Colville, Wa.
    Posts
    14,604

    Default

    The folks on the SMC board have been discussing this issue for some time. They're up against it, it seems.
    This post is for March Madness seeding purposes only.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    12,566

    Default

    Doesn’t mean much without defining the criteria used for evaluation. If you can find that we could see the variables the evaluators used.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    San Diego, Ca.
    Posts
    7,653

    Default

    If we don't have NCAA football this season, college sports are in HUGE trouble. Call it trickle down destruction of college sports.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The Pub
    Posts
    7,454

    Default

    I had read that St. Mary’s athletic department was fighting some significant financial challenges. It sounds like that pertains to the entire college. It is really impressive that Coach Bennett has been able to sustain success with the resources that his school has to work with.
    MCMM 2020: Who Wants Some Cheese?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    On an island that is long
    Posts
    13,225

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    Doesn’t mean much without defining the criteria used for evaluation. If you can find that we could see the variables the evaluators used.
    Any school that takes gives federal financial aid has to report various things to the government. That data is public and available. The data that they collect is quite wide ranging, enrollment, admissions, grad rates, retention rates, financial aid, HR data and also financial data. So I am sure a seriously large chunk comes from those reports. That being said... this article spells it out quite clearly what the criteria used was:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/carterc.../#59514b0061c4

    But quick synopsis:


    Endowment Assets Per FTE* (15%)
    Primary Reserve Ratio (15%)
    Viability Ratio (10%)
    Core Operating Margin (10%)
    Tuition As A Percentage of Core Revs (15%)
    Return On Assets (10%)
    Admission Yield (10%)
    Percent Freshman Getting Institutional Grants (7.5%)
    Instruction Expenses Per FTE* (7.5%)


    *FTE is Full-time equivalent. A FT student is counted as 1 and a PT student is counted as .3333
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    17,548

    Default

    Declining birth rates will stagger the lower half of schools, among other challenges. From an article I am writing:

    In the wake of Covid-19, higher education in this country will be revolutionized, and not without plenty of kicking and screaming from state ed boards, trustees, alums, campus leadership and faculty. But with plenty of hurrahs from students and their parents. The changes will come fast and turbulently, a far cry from academia’s familiar and comfortable evolution.

    Even before the pandemic, higher education was on the precipice. Besides rising costs, unaffordable tuition, and declining student aid and philanthropy, U.S. colleges are facing a major demographic crisis. Many have failed to meet enrollment targets for the entering class and more years like this are on the horizon. Over the next decade, colleges are expected to see a steady decline in enrollments. It’s simple demographics. The nationwide number of high school graduates is declining and will continue to drop through 2029-2030. One early danger sign: A majority of the country’s 3,000 plus four-year colleges now admit “most” of the students who apply.

    Hyper-selective schools are few: Among four-year colleges examined for 2017, 17 admitted fewer than 10% of applicants. Those included Stanford (5%), Harvard (5%), and Yale (7%). An additional 29 schools admitted between 10% and 20% of applicants, such as Georgetown (16%), the USC (16%), and Berkeley (17%). Schools accepting 20% or less, however, amount to only 3% of all colleges. More than half (53%) admitted “most,” or two-thirds or more, of all those who applied.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    5,018

    Default

    Is it true that tuition costs accelerated when the guaranteed student loan programs started? I read an article years ago, now, that made that assertion.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    5,018

    Default

    As an aside, I think it would be interesting to see more trade school for high school students who are not on the college trajectory. We have head start for college. It seems like it would be great to have kids that are already working towards or are well into an electrician apprenticeship, or what have you, by the time they graduate.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    917

    Default

    All of these schools, except BYU, are propped up by inflated tuition prices and unfettered government lending. The day of reckoning is coming soon in higher education.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    15,698

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    As an aside, I think it would be interesting to see more trade school for high school students who are not on the college trajectory. We have head start for college. It seems like it would be great to have kids that are already working towards or are well into an electrician apprenticeship, or what have you, by the time they graduate.
    That is common in Europe, I think it is a good thing to do. But too many parents think their kids are going to an Ivy (hyperbole of course, but you get my point) and will not accept anyone evaluating their kid in a way they don't like.
    'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.'
    - Gandalf the Grey

    ________________________________



    Foo Time

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    On an island that is long
    Posts
    13,225

    Default

    On the contrary... for many schools... the tuition barely covers the CODB. All the things taken for granted at a university cost a lot of money... and it isn't always professors. Large campuses have large swaths of grassy land that needs tending to. Many schools have aging buildings which get more and more expensive to maintain... not to mention the cost of the energy consumed. Not going to get into the politics of it all... but speaking as someone in the industry for 20+ years... people really do have a misguided vision of higher ed... mostly tainted by these highly selective universities with massive endowments which are the exception as opposed to the rule
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    17,548

    Default

    Right LIZF. Grounds, physical plant, energy and increasingly safety and security take pieces of the pie. But personnel is still #1 with estimates to 70% of budget.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    On an island that is long
    Posts
    13,225

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Right LIZF. Grounds, energy and increasingly safety and security take pieces of the pie. But personnel is still #1 with estimates to 70% of budget.

    Personnel can mean many things... IT is personnel... so is that advisor for your kid... so is that lady serving you lunch.... so is the registrar who makes sure you have access to the classes you need.

    Do professors take a chunk... of course they do. In higher ed... they ARE what you are selling.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    12,566

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Any school that takes gives federal financial aid has to report various things to the government. That data is public and available. The data that they collect is quite wide ranging, enrollment, admissions, grad rates, retention rates, financial aid, HR data and also financial data. So I am sure a seriously large chunk comes from those reports. That being said... this article spells it out quite clearly what the criteria used was:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/carterc.../#59514b0061c4

    But quick synopsis:


    Endowment Assets Per FTE* (15%)
    Primary Reserve Ratio (15%)
    Viability Ratio (10%)
    Core Operating Margin (10%)
    Tuition As A Percentage of Core Revs (15%)
    Return On Assets (10%)
    Admission Yield (10%)
    Percent Freshman Getting Institutional Grants (7.5%)
    Instruction Expenses Per FTE* (7.5%)


    *FTE is Full-time equivalent. A FT student is counted as 1 and a PT student is counted as .3333
    Good for you LIZ. Thanks for posting.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    17,548

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Personnel can mean many things... IT is personnel... so is that advisor for your kid... so is that lady serving you lunch.... so is the registrar who makes sure you have access to the classes you need.

    Do professors take a chunk... of course they do. In higher ed... they ARE what you are selling.
    Absolutely. And while many profs are tenure protected, campus unions can be another thorn in side of admins trying to balance budget. Financial exigencies, such as dissipating enrollment in certain programs, give schools some wiggle room on faculty.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    On an island that is long
    Posts
    13,225

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    Good for you LIZ. Thanks for posting.
    No problem. Considering that IPEDs and NYS reporting is my primary job... I kinda know the stuff
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,053

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Any school that takes gives federal financial aid has to report various things to the government. That data is public and available. The data that they collect is quite wide ranging, enrollment, admissions, grad rates, retention rates, financial aid, HR data and also financial data. So I am sure a seriously large chunk comes from those reports. That being said... this article spells it out quite clearly what the criteria used was:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/carterc.../#59514b0061c4

    But quick synopsis:


    Endowment Assets Per FTE* (15%)
    Primary Reserve Ratio (15%)
    Viability Ratio (10%)
    Core Operating Margin (10%)
    Tuition As A Percentage of Core Revs (15%)
    Return On Assets (10%)
    Admission Yield (10%)
    Percent Freshman Getting Institutional Grants (7.5%)
    Instruction Expenses Per FTE* (7.5%)


    *FTE is Full-time equivalent. A FT student is counted as 1 and a PT student is counted as .3333
    One element that was not was not quantified was the state of the physical assets. GU has spent (and is spending, in the case of the science building) a lot on buildings and other physical assets. GU also has momentum, in that it’s on an upward trajectory in terms of selectivity and admissions. I think GU is in better shape than the numbers suggest. Conversely, I think Portland and San Diego are in worse shape than their numbers suggest.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    On an island that is long
    Posts
    13,225

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsObserver View Post
    One element that was not was not quantified was the state of the physical assets. GU has spent (and is spending, in the case of the science building) a lot on buildings and other physical assets. GU also has momentum, in that it’s on an upward trajectory in terms of selectivity and admissions. I think GU is in better shape than the numbers suggest. Conversely, I think Portland and San Diego are in worse shape than their numbers suggest.
    Definitely, this is only looking at hard data. That being said, those buildings will eventually show up positively or negatively in the ROA section
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,053

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Definitely, this is only looking at hard data. That being said, those buildings will eventually show up positively or negatively in the ROA section
    Agreed. That is certainly true. That’s why snapshot grades are, perhaps, helpful, but usually incomplete.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    On an island that is long
    Posts
    13,225

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsObserver View Post
    Agreed. That is certainly true. That’s why snapshot grades are, perhaps, helpful, but usually incomplete.
    I think it gives a perspective but not a complete picture. Not saying I agree or disagree with the methodology or the value of this metric, but it does use cold hard facts (produced and reported by the institution themselves) to give a view into their financial state.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Napa, CA
    Posts
    4,489

    Default

    From a personnel standpoint, one of the major rises in costs is not the teaching staff, it's the non-teaching staff. All of the different VPs that universities have these days? Added costs, even more including the staff under them. All of the activities that are expected on campus? Extra costs for staff to take care of them. All of the amenities that are expected? Extra costs. Everything that goes into the "university experience" adds to the costs, both personnel and other infrastructure. As a result, many universities have turned increasingly to adjuncts to reduce the personnel costs of their teaching staff because of the increased costs for everything else.

    One of the biggest costs for many universities? Athletics programs that cost more than they bring in.
    I will thank God for the day and the moment I have. - Jimmy V

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    12,566

    Default

    All thenew, large buildings must be eating budgets up. Seems like tuition has risen directly with the number and expense of new buildings. I doubt a kid can work full time and make his tuition anymore. Loans are built in to the expenses. Kids must have huge debt so the universities continue to expand. It's not that simple but what is the product ? It's the kids any university graduates...

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    5,018

    Default

    For Jazz, Liz or anyone on the “inside,” why does college tuition outpace inflation? And is this even a true statement? I have seen data stating things like college tuition goes up 8% per year. Another graph I saw showed it as high as 9% in the 1990s and dropping to 6% by 2013. For comparison, the U.S. inflation average by decade is around 2-3%.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    On an island that is long
    Posts
    13,225

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    For Jazz, Liz or anyone on the “inside,” why does college tuition outpace inflation? And is this even a true statement? I have seen data stating things like college tuition goes up 8% per year. Another graph I saw showed it as high as 9% in the 1990s and dropping to 6% by 2013. For comparison, the U.S. inflation average by decade is around 2-3%.
    Perhaps for some. Where I work we've been roughly at or below inflation rate every year for the last decade. I think the reason honestly is competition... schools are competing for many of the same students... as such... they tend to offer more institutional aid to entice the student. Now if the school is like Harvard with an outrageous endowment... that doesn't really impact the bottom line... but for schools with much smaller endowments it raising tuition to cover the difference. The irony of all of this is that where I work, they got more selective, required higher test scores, and got increases in enrollment while holding tuition relatively steady. Also, by and large, tuition inflation has been steadily dropping since 1995. I would just caution that each school is very different and not always a straight comparison. Also, note, large state schools tend to have very low in-state tuition compared to private schools. My son's school charges less in tuition per year that what GU or where I work charges in a semester. But that also means that what on paper looks like a modest increase of say $300 per semester to my son's tuition would equate to 10% where as at a private university it is a negligible amount
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •