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Thread: NCAA Won't Mandate Uniform Return to College Sports

  1. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    You got that right.

    ZagDad

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    Pretty shocking to hear Pac-12 canceled basketball until 2021. Even more shocking to Lady Zag fans because we usually play Stanford before conference season, and its a huge game for us. Even more surprising no Kelly Graves and his loaded Oregon Ducks won't play until 2021 they would probably would have been number one rated team coming out of the gate again.

    It must be shocking to coach Graves. This seems like March 2020 one minute CLF mad about playing with no fans, when it turned out the concern should of been just to be able to play games. The crazier thing this time is nobody was more prepared to play games in the Covid-19 pandemic, than coach Graves he had his players playing with masks on the court from the first practice.

    So now we know the Lady Zags have to be worried about being able to play basketball games in 2020.

    Will the WCC be committed to play basketball in 2020?

    Will all the leaders of WCC colleges be committed to play basketball in 2020?

    Will a player Bubble be explored?

    Will players be required to play wearing masks in practices and during games on the court?

    Will WCC guidelines for basketball players, coaches, referees, be strict enough to ensure a successful basketball season?

    We have already seen we have no leadership from the NCAA what so ever. They have left it to the conferences to make their own decisions. College Football is done for 2020 more shoes to drop in future weeks.

    Now the elephant in the room is College Basketball, will the Lady Zags play in 2020?
    Last edited by ZAGS ATTACK BASKET; 08-12-2020 at 06:04 PM.

  3. #278
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    Hmmm. What would you rather have, a dozen or so active cases and 22 deaths in a country of 5 million, or 50 million cases and 170,000 dead out of 350 million and transmission spinning out of control? NZ has a (not unexpected) outbreak that can likely be managed by traditional public health measures. This is standard epidemic practice. NZ rightfully locked back down in Auckland and advanced measures for the rest of the country. A smart national response.

    In contrast, we have barely any public health measures in many places in this country. We have nearly a thousand expired health care workers that sacrificed their lives while people are out carelessly socializing and shunning medical recommendations. It's disgraceful.

    Not sure what your point is. Winter is coming and we will move from the frying pan into the fire. One county in the U.S. has already seen 1000 students and staff in quarantine after just 8 days of school, in a district that flouted standard public health practices. Most experts recommend we shut down again to the point of getting numbers down to being able to trace and isolate. That would save thousands of lives between now and the end of the year, and would give us the best chance of getting back to normal. Our window of opportunity is closing fast.

    As for the comic (coming from an artist known for racist and controversial images and a very political bent that should not be a part of this board), it's amazing how one-dimensional some people can be. I said it before, it's not ON/OFF, and there are complexities that many people don't understand or want to acknowledge. Fauci's words are a result of good scientific practice. That is, when we learn new things, we adjust our positions to adapt to those new findings. If you're running a zone defense and it isn't working, hell if you don't make adjustments. This is central to all scientific practice. We learn, and adapt. Everything he said (at the time it was said) was absolutely true. We didn't think masks were that effective in the context of this virus. We now know that it reduces transmission by 75%. We do need a vaccine, and he's right, it might not help. It depends on efficacy, manufacturing capacity, public compliance with taking it, as well as continuing masks and distancing for a good long while.

    Stop trying to close threads by injecting politics. It's disruptive and prevents people from discussing the science that leads to consequences for college basketball.

    Back on topic, the Big East just shut down all fall sports. They said they would re-evaluate winter sports at a later date.

  4. #279
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    Fauci knowingly lied about the use of masks.....and admitted it.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dr...ks/ar-BB15zyW3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    Fauci knowingly lied about the use of masks.....and admitted it.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dr...ks/ar-BB15zyW3
    An opinion piece from June, before most of the data was known. You're beating a dead horse. I said before, we react to the ongoing circumstances, as all scientists should. All the while knowing that a hoard on PPE was going to kill healthcare professionals. And it did. Reusing masks in this country is unheard of (not to even mention wearing garbage bags for protection), yet we hear about it day after day, to the point that it actually causes infection and horrible consequences, like most third world countries. And it killed doctors and nurses to the tune of a thousand of them. He was trying to save lives (all the while under pressure from people that have no medical expertise but other agendas), yet you mock it like it's just another day to day issue that's fodder for a discussion board. It's apparent that's not important to you because you're focusing on petty arguments that ultimately cost people and their families a whole lot of pain and suffering. For Christ's sake, we all as health professionals begged the public not to sequester basic protection for those that needed it most. Yet here we are, putting our N95s in paper bags and hoping a new supply shows up. THIS IS NOT NORMAL.

    I don't find any empathy in your words, or care for the people on the ground that deal with this awful situation every day. Stop flinging poo from your balcony. As it's clear you have absolutely, positively, most incredibly, posilutely, zero medical or scientific training, please tell me your qualifications about masks that make you have such a hard opinion. Educate me. I find your apathy troubling.

    Keep the damn politics out of these discussions or find a better venue unless you have some actual data to provide instead of editorial pieces. The rest of us would like to keep these threads from getting zapped because of political trolls.

  6. #281
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    Fauci admitted to lying about Masks.....no opinion.

    Keep on subject and stop name calling.

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    It was clear to me in March that we were being advised not to wear masks so that they would be spared for medical professionals. I remember a conversation with my father in law when, after he brought me some his supply of masks, he promised to procure more, and I asked him if that was good idea considering the reported shortages for medical workers.

    If for some reason, you took the recommendations at the time to heart and are now unwilling to pivot, even as it's clear that widespread use of cloth coverings will both reduce transmission and improve the economic rebound, that's really a you problem, not a Fauci problem.
    Agent provocateur

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    First, thank you ZagCEO for providing a link with documentation where mask wearing was discouraged. We cannot have discussion without documentation and you did just as Cad asked. Thank You.

    That being said, as noted above almost all of the Fauci comments noted in the article you provided were from February/March, 2020. I think you will admit that there probably is much more recent data on the effectiveness of wearing masks than there was in February/March. No, Fauci is not infallible, and he has changed his tune and recommendations as more data becomes available.

    What I don't get is the people who keep complaining that we are "moving the goalposts" or "changing the guidelines/recommendations." There are 10s of thousands (if not more) of researchers around the world working on every aspect of Covid-19. You would hope that new knowledge is being found, maybe as frequently as daily/weekly. As more data is found and made available to the medical community you certainly would expect the medical community would revise their recommendations/guidelines to incorporate the new data. It really is not rocket science.

    If the goalposts were not moving, is when you should be scared as that would indicate a lack of new knowledge being found out by all of those researchers.

    The information on masks changes frequently. We were originally told that masks only protected other people, then we found out that they provided significant protection for the wearer. We don't all have access to N95 masks and over the past several months we have learned that multi-layer paper masks and multi-layer, homemade, cloth masks can be very effective. Just this past week we have found out that bandanas are really not very effective and gaiter type masks are not effective at all. Just some examples of how new knowledge can improve the effectiveness of wearing masks and mask types that we use. We all need to incorporate the influx of new knowledge into our everyday life. Be flexible, be open and adjust your practices to account for the latest data that has been provided.

    Information on social distancing is also becoming available. The six feet of distance required for social distancing is a minimum, given no wind or air movements created by heating/cooling systems. Even a small amount of air flow (or wind) can increase the distances droplets can travel from a sneeze or cough out to as far as 20 feet or more (depending on the the velocity of the wind or air flow). Social distance without wearing your masks at your own peril.

    We see this moving target represented in our sports community. Are we going to play, when are we going to play, where are we going to play, which sports are going to play, fans? What impact is money going to have on which sports are going to be played? Many conferences, College Presidents, ADs, coaches, etc. are waiting to the last minute to get the latest data on Covid infection rates and hospitalizations before making their final decisions (for this week anyway).

    Nobody knows when a vaccine will be made available to the general public, how effective the vaccine will be, and what the side effects of the vaccine will have, and so on. Thus while a future vaccine will be a part (likely a major part) of the eventual Covid-19 solution, the most likely scenario will be the vaccine will need to be combined with some amount of masking and social distancing to become a truly effective solution.

    Herd Immunity has not been shown to be effective. Some people have already caught Covid-19 more than once. Countries who have tried (intentionally and some unintentionally) the Herd Immunity option have had people dying off at death rates that are far above those using other methods and the percentage of the population shown with latent anti-bodies is considerably less than anticipated. The effectiveness of Herd Immunity has not yet been determined, so counting on this immunity as the final solution to Covid-19 would not appear to be a wise choice.

    The healthcare mouthpieces are doing what they are supposed to do, which is look out for the public health. They are not responsible for the economical or educational impacts caused as a result of their recommendations, that is the responsibility of others (Governors, Mayors, Superintendents, etc.) to address these issues. Unless you are expecting a change in the Governor's seat in Washington State (Sorry Cad) come November, our path is set. We all want and need to get to Phase III before more businesses will be permitted to open, the occupancy of certain establishments will be permitted to be increased, in school classes can be held (at least part time) and so on.

    No matter what side of the isle you are on, the goal of everybody would appear to be to get to Phase III and then on to Phase IV to get closer to normalcy. You need to ask yourself, is what you are doing, practicing or preaching helping the State move towards Phase III or is it making the time we are going to spend in Phase II longer and delaying our movement forward. Are you part of the solution or are you part of the problem.

    ZagDad

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    Fauci should have been honest and just told the public....use a bandana....make a mask from cloth we need to preserve N95 type masks along with Surgical masks for healthcare workers.

    what would have been wrong with that advice?

    I'm not against masks I'm pointing out a strange logic Fauci used.

  10. #285

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    Fall Update
    Gonzaga Athletics 8/13/2020 11:01:00 AM

    West Coast Conference Postpones Fall Competition

    SAN BRUNO, Calif. – With the health and safety of student-athletes and everyone connected with the West Coast Conference guiding all discussions, the WCC has postponed all conference fall competition due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

    The WCC Presidents' Council, in consultation with the Conference's 10 athletic directors and Commissioner Gloria Nevarez, made this decision following thorough discussion over the course of several weeks.

    "The welfare of the great student-athletes of the West Coast Conference is and always will be the guiding principle in our discussions and why we ultimately arrived at this difficult decision," said University of San Diego President James T. Harris, the chair of the WCC Presidents' Council. "The fall term for everyone associated with our member institutions will be different. We understand this and will continue to plan for a safe return to campus and a safe return to athletic competition in the WCC at the appropriate time."

    The WCC remains fully committed and continues to work closely with campus leadership on plans to ensure a safe environment to conduct the 2020-21 WCC men's and women's basketball seasons in the winter. The Conference intends to explore various models for conducting WCC competition in the fall sports of men's and women's cross country, men's and women's soccer and women's volleyball in the spring of 2021. The WCC strongly supports efforts to encourage the National Collegiate Athletic Association to conduct fall NCAA championships in the spring.

    The postponement of WCC fall sports seasons and championships does not preclude member institutions from scheduling non-conference competitions in low risk sports in the fall.

    "We empathize with our student-athletes," said Nevarez. "This is a difficult decision, but it is the responsible decision based on the available information associated with conducting competition in the current environment. WCC programs compete for national titles and we never want to take these opportunities away. However, health and safety will always be paramount in guiding our decisions. We must ensure our student-athletes have a safe environment to compete and meet the NCAA's guidelines for Resocialization of Collegiate Sport, along with current federal, state and local health and safety measures in place at each member institution. We are committed to providing the safeguards to conduct a men's and women's basketball season this winter. We want to get back to celebrating the tremendous achievements of our programs as soon as we can, but we must first ensure we can compete in a safe manner."

    Discussions involving various scheduling models, gameday safety protocols and a timeline for WCC competition are ongoing and will be shared at the appropriate time.

    Statements from Gonzaga University
    Gonzaga President Thayne McCulloh
    "The COVID-19 pandemic has ushered in an era marked by many challenges and disappointments; we are saddened, alongside our student-athletes and their coaches, with the postponement of their fall competition seasons. Our first obligation is to keep the health and safety of all of our students always at the forefront of our decision-making. Gonzaga supports, together with our colleagues from the West Coast Conference member institutions, today's decision and we will stay committed to supporting our student-athletes intellectually, spiritually, culturally, physically, and emotionally as prescribed in the University's mission. Gonzaga is committed to ensuring that they have what they need to be successful in their academic pursuits and be ready when it is safe to resume athletic competition."

    Gonzaga Director of Athletics Mike Roth
    "Gonzaga Athletics supports the West Coast Conference decision to postpone fall sports, and we share in the disappointment with our student-athletes, coaches and staff. They have put in so much work and have shown so much patience through all of this that they deserve our gratitude. The COVID-19 pandemic has brought major challenges and uncertainty, which has created difficult decisions. Health and safety are paramount to the process, and we strive to take all aspects of the student-athlete experience into consideration. We believe that, with guidance from health officials and medical experts, this is the right call at this time. We know that doesn't make it any easier for our programs, but the well-being of student-athletes will remain our top priority. We are looking forward to resuming athletic competition when it is safe to do so, and we want to commend WCC Commissioner Gloria Nevarez and the university presidents for their leadership during this time."

    Men's Cross Country Head Coach Pat Tyson and Women's Cross Country Head Coach Jake Stewart
    "As a coaching staff, our first thoughts of today's news are about the student-athletes who are part of Gonzaga's Cross Country program. We know how hard they worked this summer to prepare for cross country, how badly they wanted to race with their teammates and ultimately know what goals they all were striving for. We hurt for them. But we also know as a group we have to do what's necessary to protect ourselves, our teammates and the Gonzaga community. We all understand the gravity of the decision that was made, and the thought that went into it. Knowing that, we all have to do our part. Our hope now is for our student-athletes to have the chance to grow closer to one another this fall, support each other, and find every aspect of being a team that's available to them given the current circumstances. That's important to us all. We can all keep working hard for ourselves and one another. When the next opportunity comes for us to represent Gonzaga University, we'll be ready."

    Women's Soccer Head Coach Chris Watkins
    "This is a trying time for the Gonzaga Women's Soccer Family as we hear of the postponement of our fall season. We are grateful for the thorough care and leadership we have felt within the WCC and specifically our Athletic Department. I am proud of our offseason preparation, the commitment of our players and the continued opportunity to develop and advance our program. I look forward to the next time we can proudly wear the GONZAGA logo on our jerseys at our next match!"

    Men's Soccer Head Coach Paul Meehan
    "While the news that our season has been postponed is disappointing, we trust in the decision made by the WCC that has the health and safety of our student-athletes in mind. It is tough news to take, but I am proud of the resilience of our guys and know we will be stronger because of this. Our leaders have had very difficult decisions to make during these very challenging times and whenever we are able to compete again, we'll be ready. We'll continue to focus on our academics and keep growing this fall."

    Volleyball Head Coach Diane Nelson
    "I'm heartbroken for the student-athletes. The health and safety of our student-athletes will always be the priority. We will move forward with gratitude and optimism. We will continue to build our team first culture and find ways to serve others during this time. We strive for greatness at Gonzaga Volleyball and define it for our student-athletes as "always learning, always growing." Regardless of circumstances we can do that. I am incredibly grateful for the dedication and support demonstrated by my staff, all of our student-athletes, and the amazing Zag community. We will get through this."

  11. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    Fauci should have been honest and just told the public....use a bandana....make a mask from cloth we need to preserve N95 type masks along with Surgical masks for healthcare workers.

    what would have been wrong with that advice?
    Nothing wrong with that advice, except, as we know now and did not know in February/March, bandanas don't work very well as a mask.

    I'm not against masks I'm pointing out a strange logic Fauci used.
    I have no idea, why Fauci made those statements in February/March, which look pretty silly given what we know today.

    However, why are we talking about statements made in February/March when so much more knowledge is available today?

    ZagDad

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    The following, in case anyone is curious what was said at the time.

    Update: On Friday, April 3, President Trump announced that the CDC now recommends Americans wear a "basic cloth or fabric mask" in public. The following was published on March 8.

    When it comes to preventing coronavirus, public health officials have been clear: Healthy people do not need to wear a face mask to protect themselves from COVID-19.

    How U.S. hospitals are preparing, and what leading health officials say about coronavirus
    "There's no reason to be walking around with a mask," infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci told 60 Minutes.

    While masks may block some droplets, Fauci said, they do not provide the level of protection people think they do. Wearing a mask may also have unintended consequences: People who wear masks tend to touch their face more often to adjust them, which can spread germs from their hands.

    But there is another risk to healthy people buying disposable masks as a precaution. The price of face masks is surging, and Prestige Ameritech, the nation's largest surgical mask manufacturer, is now struggling to keep up with the increased demand.

    "It could lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it," Fauci said.

    Face masks are vital for health care providers and for patients with confirmed or suspected COVID-19.

    For healthy people, both the World Health Organization and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommend they wear masks only when taking care of those who are sick or suspected of having the virus.

    For those who do need to wear a mask, the WHO emphasizes the proper way of wearing one: put the mask on with clean hands; remove it from behind without touching the front; wash hands immediately after removing it; dispose of it properly; and never reuse a single-use mask.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/prevent...es-2020-03-08/

    To me, it seems Fauci was making a calculated risk to protect medical workers. I'm trying to remember when it became widely believed that respiritory droplets were the primary mode of transmission. I found this from the WHO, published on March 29. And then you see the updated guidance from the CDC on April 3rd. So, possibly Fauci's original comments came before there was enough evidence to suggest that blocking respiritory droplets could be nearly the whole ballgame.

    In the end, I'm with ZagDad84. There are enough yahoos on my Facebook feed, today, still trying to argue about mask ordinances and whatever else they can.

    If ZagCEO thinks masks are a good idea, fine.

    I don't expect scientists to be infallible or perfect. With Fauci, I believe the nation has a credible resource who has our best interests at heart ... and comes from a Jesuit education to boot.
    Last edited by sonuvazag; 08-13-2020 at 02:37 PM.
    Agent provocateur

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    Nothing wrong with that advice, except, as we know now and did not know in February/March, bandanas don't work very well as a mask.



    I have no idea, why Fauci made those statements in February/March, which look pretty silly given what we know today.

    However, why are we talking about statements made in February/March when so much more knowledge is available today?

    ZagDad
    As they say in court, it goes to credibility.

    Why isn’t Fauci talking about all the health related disasters caused by the shutdowns.

    Did any of you know that 25% of 18-24 go’s have seriously contemplated suicide during the lockdowns? Alcohol and drug abuse are taking lives. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...mm6932a1-H.pdf

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    Markburn, hard to know what to make of that report because of huge reporting bias. Of the 9,800 individuals that they requested info from, only 54% responded. So individuals who had experienced an adverse event may have been more likely to respond than someone who read the questionnaire and felt it didn't apply to them and threw it out. Also i don't see them report a control period prior to covid to know if those numbers are an increase or decrease from pre-covid times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tummydoc View Post
    Markburn, hard to know what to make of that report because of huge reporting bias. Of the 9,800 individuals that they requested info from, only 54% responded. So individuals who had experienced an adverse event may have been more likely to respond than someone who read the questionnaire and felt it didn't apply to them and threw it out. Also i don't see them report a control period prior to covid to know if those numbers are an increase or decrease from pre-covid times.
    Hey gastro guy.

    Pretty frustrating to post here because of the overwhelming bias. Back a couple months ago there were more diverse views but at this point only one aspect of the story is being discussed. Any news that doesn’t match the narrative is immediately dismissed.

    Your response is a case in point. Many times on this and other threads the CDC has been touted as an authority that we should not question. Yet, when that authority strays from the script their methods are immediately questioned.

    I stopped commenting for a couple months. Time to do it again.

    By the way, the CDC compared percentages of mental health issues from the same time period last year. The elevated risk is a comparison of this year over last.
    Last edited by Markburn1; 08-14-2020 at 07:59 AM.

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    Mark... got your six!

    The thing about being lectured to is, like my kids, you don’t like it... When you can read into the post a tone that none of us like to be spoken to in ... it suddenly becomes... blah, blah, blah.

    Folks... we get that the Virus is a really real concern. We have lived it for 6 months. What Mark and I have tried to bring to the discussion is the people being affected not by the virus but because of the virus... and thoughs lives are also concerning.

    Years ago we had a workshop for our employees on how to deal with very upset customers... we all have them. The workshop was put on by a couple of Spokane Police Officers... two great impressive people. One was a GU grad. The one thing that stuck with me was that very upset people can not hear a thing you are saying until you can calm them. I’m seeing a little of that on this post.

    Can we cool the lectures and be a little more civil...

    Go Zags!!

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    Sorry fellas, i wasn't giving a lecture (at least that wasn't the intent). I review studies for publication, and these are the questions i would have asked the authors.

  18. #293
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    Markburn1,

    I have spent the last bunch of hours deciding how to respond to you, ZagCEO and Skip in a manner to pursue a dialog within which people are not trying to change peoples opinions but in a manner to obtain further information within which each of us can make more intelligent decisions in our everyday lives as it applies to Covid-19 and the associated consequences of dealing with Covid-19. There are many points within which we can agree upon including (I believe) the following:

    - Dr. Fauci and the CDC are not perfect, they are not infallible and they may (or have) lied in some fashion (even by omission).
    - Dr. Fauci and the CDC have made statements and guidelines which have later been proved to be partially or fully incorrect based on more current data.
    - There are ramifications of the Covid-19 suppression guidelines that are rarely discussed; additional mental health issues, educational issues, societal issues and increased crime issues, etc.
    - Depending on how they are presented (or not presented), statistics can be used to (apparently) support both sides of the same issue.
    - There definitely is a political purpose/slant and a sensationalism to the reporting of Covid-19 (amongst almost every reported item). It is all about the views/clicks, etc.

    I think the vast majority of board posters would agree with the above statements. To begin a real discussion we need general topic (say Covid-19 Response) before we break it down in to sub-topics (mental health, education, crime, politics, etc.). So let's start there and see where it goes:

    The popular view as reported by the mainstream media is that the current CDC recommendations (generally speaking for most areas) include use of masks when in public, social distance a minimum of 6', limit the size of gatherings, and stay at home whenever possible. Obviously, there are significant ramifications seen as a result of implementation of these guidelines including but certainly not limited to a huge impact on the economy, impact on education, an increase in mental health, a reduction in civility amongst the population, etc. The intended trade-off (according to many sources) is a reduction in the number of Covid-19 infections and in the end a reduction in the number of deaths. is the disconnect.

    O'k ZagCEO, Skip and Markburn1 (and any others who want to chime in) if you don't agree with the above guidelines, what do you want to see implemented in lieu of the current CDC guidelines?

    It is easy to throw darts and and complain about the ramifications of an existing plan, it has a proven (unproven) track record, but what are you going to propose as an alternative? You got something better, share it with us.

    ZagDad

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    Alaska Airlines flight out of Spokane delayed over passengers refusing to wear masks
    Posted: August 11, 2020 10:48 PM
    Updated: August 12, 2020 7:13 AM by Kyle Simchuk

    SPOKANE, Wash. — An Alaska Airlines flight out of Spokane was delayed. Not because of mechanical problems, but because several passengers refused to wear their masks.

    Even after a warning from flight attendants, several passengers on board the flight from Spokane to Portland refused to cover their face.

    “There were was a lot of really nice people on this plane that just wanted to go home,” said Karyn Schimmels.

    She was one of those passengers last Sunday, on her way home from Spokane to Portland.

    Alaska flight 2698 was scheduled to take off on time.

    “Once they were seated, removed their mask below their nose and were not willing to put it back up,” said Schimmels.

    She says about 10 passengers in the back of the plane refused to cover their faces properly.

    “They just had a lot of disregard for the other passengers on the plane,” said Schimmels. “I wear my mask for myself but also for everybody else.”

    They were warned by flight attendants and Schimmel says they still refused to pull their masks up. Then they were given yellow cards- a final notice.

    After that, passengers who refuse to wear a mask won’t be allowed to fly on Alaska as long as the policy remains in effect.

    Schimmels says the group still wouldn’t budge.

    “They removed everyone from the plane, we all had to get our personal belongings and our luggage and go back into the lobby,” said Schimmels.

    “I heard them talking to a couple of the airline folks. ‘Can you really do this to us?’ You know, when the police arrived: ‘Can they really do this to us?,” Schimmels said.

    The flight was delayed 45 minutes, and Schimmels isn’t sure if the stubborn group was allowed back on. According to Alaska, suspensions happen immediately upon landing. However, the yellow cards were handed out before takeoff.

    “We had to be inconvenienced because they didn’t like that rule,” said Schimmels. “It was only a 45-minute delay, I was amazed by that and a very smooth flight home, so I was just happy to get home.”

    4 News Now reached out to Alaska to see what happened to those passengers. We did not hear back.

    Other airlines like Delta and United require face coverings while on board planes. They also are threatening to ban passengers from future flights if they don’t follow the rule.

  20. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    Hey gastro guy.

    Pretty frustrating to post here because of the overwhelming bias. Back a couple months ago there were more diverse views but at this point only one aspect of the story is being discussed. Any news that doesn’t match the narrative is immediately dismissed.

    Your response is a case in point. Many times on this and other threads the CDC has been touted as an authority that we should not question. Yet, when that authority strays from the script their methods are immediately questioned.

    I stopped commenting for a couple months. Time to do it again.

    By the way, the CDC compared percentages of mental health issues from the same time period last year. The elevated risk is a comparison of this year over last.
    O'k Mark, stop complaining and share data from the other point of view. The only data that I see shared from your point of view is a 2 month old article commenting on remarks made by Dr. Fauci 6 months ago, CDC statistics on Child infection rates and the increase in mental health issues. The responses included sonuvazag providing an opinion on why Dr. Fauci may have made the statements he did in February/March and myself acknowledging the mis-statements made by Dr. Fauci, an acknowledgment of the CDC statistics you presented by several posters but noted that the child infection rates went up 40% in July and were likely to go much higher as schools began to open and the statistics link on the increases in mental health issues with TummyDoc simply questioning how the data was collected and why the data may be misleading. Hardly dismissive in any case.

    Your response is a case in point. Many times on this and other threads the CDC has been touted as an authority that we should not question. Yet, when that authority strays from the script their methods are immediately questioned.
    This is just ripe. I am sorry Mark but this appears to be really hypocritical. In one sentence you want to dismiss the validity of Dr. Fauci and the CDC and the next you complain when a poster (who is experienced in studies publication) calls into question what appears to him, to be a reporting bias, you conveniently dismiss his expertise. Why not use TummyDoc's expertise to see where he thinks the problems are and then you can research them and see if his concerns are valid or not. TummyDoc had a valid point, why not discuss instead of just dismiss like you are accusing the other posters of doing on this thread?

    Hard to have a conversation when you leave when anybody questions your position.

    Educate us, show us why you have the view that you have.

    ZagDad

  21. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    O'k Mark, stop complaining and share data from the other point of view. The only data that I see shared from your point of view is a 2 month old article commenting on remarks made by Dr. Fauci 6 months ago, CDC statistics on Child infection rates and the increase in mental health issues. The responses included sonuvazag providing an opinion on why Dr. Fauci may have made the statements he did in February/March and myself acknowledging the mis-statements made by Dr. Fauci, an acknowledgment of the CDC statistics you presented by several posters but noted that the child infection rates went up 40% in July and were likely to go much higher as schools began to open and the statistics link on the increases in mental health issues with TummyDoc simply questioning how the data was collected and why the data may be misleading. Hardly dismissive in any case.



    This is just ripe. I am sorry Mark but this appears to be really hypocritical. In one sentence you want to dismiss the validity of Dr. Fauci and the CDC and the next you complain when a poster (who is experienced in studies publication) calls into question what appears to him, to be a reporting bias, you conveniently dismiss his expertise. Why not use TummyDoc's expertise to see where he thinks the problems are and then you can research them and see if his concerns are valid or not. TummyDoc had a valid point, why not discuss instead of just dismiss like you are accusing the other posters of doing on this thread?

    Hard to have a conversation when you leave when anybody questions your position.

    Educate us, show us why you have the view that you have.

    ZagDad
    Not worth it Zagdad. You can’t even get it right on what I posted. You’ve attributed things to me that were another poster’s. Carry on.

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    Okay Mark, I got your six again....

    ZD... all I see is, Mark doesn’t trust Dr. Fauci or the CDC. Why... they are constantly changing their stance... one day sugar isn’t good for you, the next day it is. One day butter isn’t good for you... the next day it is.
    You see, trust is something you have to earn. And knowing governmental affairs as I do, trust for me is hard to come by.
    And for science.... everyone has said... follow the science. Ah... which one? Which study?

    Cad said leave politics out of the discussion... really? Politics is one of the drivers... You can’t turn around without tripping over politics.

    Something to think about... we know this virus is going to be around awhile no matter what we do. Even with meds, which is figured to be about plus/minus 50% affective, do we live as we are now or do we look at ways to mitigate. Do we go on the attack to find ways to live our lives and beat it with time and meds?

    Our history has shown that we have taken on as a nation tougher enemies than this virus. To be honest, I’m quite surprised how we have reacted.

    Are we going to let this virus beat us?

    Stay safe and protect others...

    Go Zags!!

    Tummy... you have added much to the conversation... and I never took you as lecturing. Please keep bringing your thoughts

  23. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkipZag View Post
    Okay Mark, I got your six again....

    ZD... all I see is, Mark doesn’t trust Dr. Fauci or the CDC. Why... they are constantly changing their stance... one day sugar isn’t good for you, the next day it is. One day butter isn’t good for you... the next day it is.
    You see, trust is something you have to earn. And knowing governmental affairs as I do, trust for me is hard to come by.
    And for science.... everyone has said... follow the science. Ah... which one? Which study?
    Apparently you didn't listen to one word of what I have said previously.

    Cad said leave politics out of the discussion... really? Politics is one of the drivers... You can’t turn around without tripping over politics.
    OK, keep pushing politics on this board. It'll get you far.

    Something to think about... we know this virus is going to be around awhile no matter what we do. Even with meds, which is figured to be about plus/minus 50% affective, do we live as we are now or do we look at ways to mitigate. Do we go on the attack to find ways to live our lives and beat it with time and meds?
    If you don't know the difference between "affective" and "effective," then what is your purpose? One is emotional (and probably your driving engine), the other has to do with outcomes. The latter is probably more important.

    Our history has shown that we have taken on as a nation tougher enemies than this virus. To be honest, I’m quite surprised how we have reacted.
    Yes, but never in the history of our country has the populous decided to abjectly surrender to an enemy that has now destroyed mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, little children to the tune of 200,000+ in six months.

    Are we going to let this virus beat us?
    With your attitude, I expect yes. Rainbows and lollipops aren't going to fix the problem. You were questioning whether Idaho was a concern. ADA county now has death trucks parked so people can bring in their dead.

    Stay safe and protect others...
    As long as it's not you. Keep on saying that sentiment.

    And, I'll add:

    Tummy... you have added much to the conversation... and I never took you as lecturing. Please keep bringing your thoughts
    Tummy (assuming a GI doc, which I have high regard for considering prior horrifying experiences) has clearly come around considering his prior posts (when it was just the flu) which then became a force of science. Someone who actually looked at the data and adapted. My admiration. We have similar experiences. Data comes in and we adjust. Don't take his posts as just a change of opinion. It's based on factual data when it becomes available. I don't get this "I've got your six" crap when it just opinionated yahoo. That doesn't inform the scientific literature in any way, that's just buttkissing because you feel that way. Give me some factual data, and then we can have a conversation. While politics influences our approach, there's no reason to ignore what every expert has been shouting. I never, ever want to see a patient get a Sengstaken-Blakemore tube in their esophagus.

    Just an example of what people have zero idea what any of this means, but affects all of us every day.

    Pay attention, because here's some important real news:

    Fauci believes normalcy will return by "the end of 2021" with coronavirus vaccine

    CDC director warns America is in for the 'worst fall … we've ever had'

    As I said before, rebut with DATA or solid facts. If you want to send spitballs at me with your opinion pieces, go ahead. It's amazing these petty posters run in like go-karts and fly away with a petty argument and then disappear. Wheee. Then they're gone. Zero data, zero factual information. Opinions 100%. Try harder.

  24. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    Governor's seat in Washington State (Sorry Cad) come November, our path is set.
    Please don't assume my affiliations. I adhere to the science, not anyone who has some political bent. I'm very much focused on the science, and not politicians, whatever they have to say. I'm pro Zag, but after that...go figure.

    We all want and need to get to Phase III before more businesses will be permitted to open, the occupancy of certain establishments will be permitted to be increased, in school classes can be held (at least part time) and so on.
    Not happening until we deal with the pandemic. You can't fix all the other problems (suicidal ideation, cratering of the economy, unemployment, basketball sometime) until the pandemic is MANAGED.

    No matter what side of the isle you are on, the goal of everybody would appear to be to get to Phase III and then on to Phase IV to get closer to normalcy. You need to ask yourself, is what you are doing, practicing or preaching helping the State move towards Phase III or is it making the time we are going to spend in Phase II longer and delaying our movement forward. Are you part of the solution or are you part of the problem.
    It's "aisle,' not an island (isle). I'm apparently turning into a grammar Nazi. Doesn't matter. No one apparently is following the rules. Appreciate your sentiments nonetheless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caduceus View Post
    Please don't assume my affiliations. I adhere to the science, not anyone who has some political bent. I'm very much focused on the science, and not politicians, whatever they have to say. I'm pro Zag, but after that...go figure.



    Not happening until we deal with the pandemic. You can't fix all the other problems (suicidal ideation, cratering of the economy, unemployment, basketball sometime) until the pandemic is MANAGED.



    It's "aisle,' not an island (isle). I'm apparently turning into a grammar Nazi. Doesn't matter. No one apparently is following the rules. Appreciate your sentiments nonetheless.
    Perhaps it's which side of the "I'll" they're on?

    Thank you for your posts. I look for articles at many places. Yours tend to be the most succinct and convey the most amount of information. I appreciate what you post here, and because you type it I don't have trouble reading it, assuming that you have 'normal' doctors scrawl. LOL
    Last edited by willandi; 08-15-2020 at 11:28 AM.
    It's not funny.

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