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Thread: NCAA Won't Mandate Uniform Return to College Sports

  1. #301
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    Well Cad I am surprised to see you are a “my way or the highway” guy....

    Had an engineer that worked for me years ago... great guy, very smart. Problem he had was that he would get so focused on a project he would tune out everything around him. Things were moving forward around him that he needed to be aware of and be part of.

    Not sure why I stay on this thread other than to bring up other thoughts (and to irritate a few ).

    Sticks and stones...

    Be Safe and yes I do mean “protect others”

    Go Zags!!
    Last edited by SkipZag; 08-15-2020 at 09:46 AM.

  2. #302
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    Cad, i dont think i thought of Covid as just the flu, but clearly underestimated its impact in early March at the time of the WCC tourney. I thought financial pressures would prevent cancelling March Madness. I also underestimated how rapid the infection would migrate to the US given todays global economy and travel. At the time little was known and I wasn't looking at good data. I am much more informed now, you got there earlier. Agree it's a big deal. We test all patient coming to our endoscopy center on the day of their procedure before allowing entry. We use on site rapid antigen testing which results in 15 minutes. (Sofia sars antigen test) - same test that the NBA and NFL chose. We've detected 4 asymptomatic patients in 900 tests. A rate lower than currently reported numbers for our county, but most of our patients are over 50 (more likely to be distancing) and we have rigorous prescreening questions before you can schedule that weed out higher risk. Testing has allowed us to protect our staff and patients, conserve PPEs for hospital use, and keep our volumes up to survive as a business. Prior to testing we had to leave our procedure rooms vacant for 40 minutes between patients for adequate air exchange before reentering the room.

    Oh and by the way, you're showing your age with that Blakemore tube. Its been replaced by the Minnesota or Levine tube!

  3. #303
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    Thank you Tummy for sharing...

    You found a way to keep your employees and patients safe and to provide a very needed service.

    It can be done... and needs to be.

    Go Zags!!

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by tummydoc View Post
    Cad, i dont think i thought of Covid as just the flu, but clearly underestimated its impact in early March at the time of the WCC tourney. I thought financial pressures would prevent cancelling March Madness. I also underestimated how rapid the infection would migrate to the US given todays global economy and travel. At the time little was known and I wasn't looking at good data. I am much more informed now, you got there earlier. Agree it's a big deal. We test all patient coming to our endoscopy center on the day of their procedure before allowing entry. We use on site rapid antigen testing which results in 15 minutes. (Sofia sars antigen test) - same test that the NBA and NFL chose. We've detected 4 asymptomatic patients in 900 tests. A rate lower than currently reported numbers for our county, but most of our patients are over 50 (more likely to be distancing) and we have rigorous prescreening questions before you can schedule that weed out higher risk. Testing has allowed us to protect our staff and patients, conserve PPEs for hospital use, and keep our volumes up to survive as a business. Prior to testing we had to leave our procedure rooms vacant for 40 minutes between patients for adequate air exchange before reentering the room.

    Oh and by the way, you're showing your age with that Blakemore tube. Its been replaced by the Minnesota or Levine tube!
    All interesting and specific info, and extraordinary in spite of all that's going on. Completely understand your perspective. Many of my colleagues felt the same early on. After SARS and MERS, I knew we could be in trouble as a whole. Thanks for sharing what's going on on the ground in your world. Haha, I boinked on the terminology (actually haven't heard SB tube for a long time, but I generally don't see those kinds of conditions these days). I have an interest in medical history and it was the first thing that popped into my head. Still, pretty similar mechanics.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    Perhaps it's which side of the "I'll" they're on?

    Thank you for your posts. I look for articles at many places. Yours tens to be the most succinct and convey the most amount of information. I appreciate what you post here, and because you type it I don't have trouble reading it, assuming that you have 'normal' doctors scrawl. LOL
    I do try to read a lot of original articles (medical journals) and then see what the press has to say. Some get it right, and then I'll post them. Most don't though, and then I have to scratch my head and sigh. This is a big reason why most people are getting confused over situations. A lot of journalists just don't have the training to make a good summation of the fast incoming data. This is probably one of the most researched issues in our time, in such a short period. Lots of "preprint" articles are out there that haven't been vetted. Glad to see the amount of studies, but it's overwhelmed the scientific community to the point that it feels like we're all trying to swallow a phone book (better example of showing my age!).

    Back when prescriptions were done on little rectangular sheets of paper (not THAT long ago, even in large academic institutions), I actually had been complemented on my handwriting a lot of the time. Cipro and Cialis are definitely not in the same category. Now that it's all online with a bunch of fingers pressing on keyboards (and with assistants that handle most of the Rxs nowadays), no one gets to see my pretty printing. I'll agree, the thing about most MD's horrific handwriting is not a myth. I think it was a product of having to write so many progress notes. Fewer mistakes though, now. Progress, perhaps, until there's a security breach, and everyone's records end up in the hands of some hacker. New innovations can bring new problems.

  6. #306
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    Maybe Fauci is wrong.

    https://reason.com/2020/07/01/covid-...ce=parsely-api

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...06.29.174888v1

    https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-35331/v1

    Cad. I participated heavily in threads before this one on this site and provided facts, studies, expert opinions, etc. that were almost always summarily dismissed because it didn't agree with the prevailing narrative here. Accusing me of flying in and flying out is BS.

    I'm sure these studies will meet the same fate. That's why it's nearly impossible to have a wide ranging discussion here. Your lecturing is tedious. I appreciate your knowledge but there are other legitimate points of view that don't coincide with yours that carry as much weight. The one sided doom and gloom approach gets old pretty fast. Would it be too hard to admit that there are experts out there with top echelon reputations and qualifications that don't agree that the world will come to an end if we don't fall in line with your or Fauci's views?

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    Another article from a politically oriented site. Stop already. Also, from each of the articles:

    Both studies are based on small sample sizes and neither have yet been vetted by peer review.
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...06.29.174888v1

    This article is a preprint and has not been certified by peer review
    https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-35331/v1

    This is a preprint. Preprints are preliminary reports that have not undergone peer review. They should not be considered conclusive, used to inform clinical practice, or referenced by the media as validated information.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by caduceus View Post
    Another article from a politically oriented site. Stop already. Also, from each of the articles:



    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...06.29.174888v1



    https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-35331/v1
    Bingo. Just reject it outright. Proves my point. Don't even glance at the actual studies to see if they make sense. You are predictable, I'll give you that.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    Bingo. Just reject it outright. Proves my point. Don't even glance at the actual studies to see if they make sense. You are predictable, I'll give you that.
    I read them all prior to my above reply. All preprints without peer-review. There isn't much new in these studies anyway. I wrote a whole post on the differences between humoral and cellular immunity.

    These studies aren't game changing in any way, and I'd be stupid to consider these for informing policy. Besides, getting to "herd immunity" by scrapping public health measures will literally kill hundreds of thousands more in this country without a workable vaccine.

    Not only did Sweden end up with one of the highest deaths per capita of the virus, they managed to wreck their economy as bad as their neighbors. More evidence that you cannot fix all the ancillary stuff without fixing the actual problem causing it.

    ETA: Lack of peer review doesn't mean a study should be rejected outright, but possibly taken with a grain of salt. I look at plenty of preprints with that in mind. In this case, I don't find anything compelling to change public health policy in any meaningful way. Oregon had a recent population antibody survey. While that study has some selection bias and other issues, it found that 1% of the population in Oregon had antibodies. Even if they're off by an order of magnitude, that's a long, long way to herd immunity without a trail of dead bodies.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by caduceus View Post
    Please don't assume my affiliations. I adhere to the science, not anyone who has some political bent. I'm very much focused on the science, and not politicians, whatever they have to say. I'm pro Zag, but after that...go figure.
    I never assumed your political affiliations. My intent was to apologized to you specifically beforehand for mentioning politics (in general) in my thread. The post had absolutely nothing to do with your personal affiliations. You know what they say about assumptions and the people who make them my dear Cad. I will try to be clearer on future posts.

    Not happening until we deal with the pandemic. You can't fix all the other problems (suicidal ideation, cratering of the economy, unemployment, basketball sometime) until the pandemic is MANAGED.
    Yes, that is obvious. The sentence above was meant as a lead in for the next paragraph, see below. Everybody should want to get to Phase III whether it be for medical reasons, economic reasons, educational reasons, mental health reasons, etc. It does not matter, in the context of my post, why you want to get to Phase III, just that Phase III (which is not the finish line, just the first step), should be the goal of everybody. The obvious first step to Phase III is managing the pandemic, it is in the guidelines for Phase III presented by Governor Inslee. Are your (general population) day-to-day actions contributing to your local community moving to Phase III or not. If not, why not and why do you want to stay in Phase II?

    It's "aisle,' not an island (isle). I'm apparently turning into a grammar Nazi. Doesn't matter. No one apparently is following the rules. Appreciate your sentiments nonetheless.
    Typo, Auto-Correct, Misuse of the word, poor proof-reading, how do you know which it is Cad? Another incorrect assumption? That would be two in the same post. Why I am sure I do not have the number of degrees and years of higher education as you do, I do have more than my fair share. I can assure you that I knew the difference between Isle and Aisle early in my Elementary School years. Now if you want to police my use of punctuation, I can really use some help in that area.

    I continue appreciate your on-going contributions on this issue.

    Thank You,

    ZagDad

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    I never assumed your political affiliations. My intent was to apologized to you specifically beforehand for mentioning politics (in general) in my thread. The post had absolutely nothing to do with your personal affiliations. You know what they say about assumptions and the people who make them my dear Cad. I will try to be clearer on future posts.



    Yes, that is obvious. The sentence above was meant as a lead in for the next paragraph, see below. Everybody should want to get to Phase III whether it be for medical reasons, economic reasons, educational reasons, mental health reasons, etc. It does not matter, in the context of my post, why you want to get to Phase III, just that Phase III (which is not the finish line, just the first step), should be the goal of everybody. The obvious first step to Phase III is managing the pandemic, it is in the guidelines for Phase III presented by Governor Inslee. Are your (general population) day-to-day actions contributing to your local community moving to Phase III or not. If not, why not and why do you want to stay in Phase II?



    Typo, Auto-Correct, Misuse of the word, poor proof-reading, how do you know which it is Cad? Another incorrect assumption? That would be two in the same post. Why I am sure I do not have the number of degrees and years of higher education as you do, I do have more than my fair share. I can assure you that I knew the difference between Isle and Aisle early in my Elementary School years. Now if you want to police my use of punctuation, I can really use some help in that area.

    I continue appreciate your on-going contributions on this issue.

    Thank You,

    ZagDad
    Apologies. I was in a bad moment at the time, and over-read what you were trying to portray. Your post was valuable and makes much more sense in proper context. See? Learn new things and we adjust (or is it "a just"...heh).

    =cad=

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkipZag View Post
    ZD... all I see is, Mark doesn’t trust Dr. Fauci or the CDC.
    Thank You Captain Obvious. (Yes it is meant as a joke)

    Why... they are constantly changing their stance... one day sugar isn’t good for you, the next day it is. One day butter isn’t good for you... the next day it is. You see, trust is something you have to earn. And knowing governmental affairs as I do, trust for me is hard to come by. And for science.... everyone has said... follow the science. Ah... which one? Which study?
    You are going to have to explain this to me. As I said before, there are 10's of thousands of researchers, scientists, doctors, etc. researching every aspect of Covid-19. New information is being found daily or at least weekly. If I read (interpret) your sentence correctly, if Fauci or the CDC change their position (recommendations, guidelines, etc.) based on more recent data, suddenly trust in them is reduced?

    What would you have them do, not react to new data and continue to issue recommendations and guidelines based on incomplete, outdated data? Seems like a no win situation, but please clarify for me?

    If you don't trust the Fauci or the CDC, where do you go to get your medical information; WHO, Johns Hopkins, UW, etc.? Have they not changed or revised their recommendations as well over the 5 months? If you have another source of medical information that does not conform to the mainstream line of thought, please provide it so we can all further our knowledge.

    IMO, the argument of "Fauci and the CDC changed their mind" is not a really strong argument for accepting a non-mainstream line of thinking, but I am open to new ideas if you can provide some credible documentation.

    Cad said leave politics out of the discussion... really? Politics is one of the drivers... You can’t turn around without tripping over politics.
    I agree that politics has a significant impact on the Covid-19 issue. I am not so sure how much politics impacts the actual science of Covid-19 (beyond maybe the allocation of research dollars), but politics or political agendas certainly impact on how and what research information is presented in the mainstream media. My challenge to you is that for every MSNBC and CNN, there is a Fox News. If you feel the main stream media data is incorrect (or incomplete which is much more likely) where is the contrary or missing data from the other side of the coin published?

    Something to think about... we know this virus is going to be around awhile no matter what we do. Even with meds, which is figured to be about plus/minus 50% affective, do we live as we are now or do we look at ways to mitigate. Do we go on the attack to find ways to live our lives and beat it with time and meds?
    Absolutely, as several of us have said as much previously in this thread.

    Our history has shown that we have taken on as a nation tougher enemies than this virus. To be honest, I’m quite surprised how we have reacted.
    Really, you are surprised how we (general population) have reacted? You really have way too much faith in Humanity. I said on this board before the Memorial Holiday weekend that not only would we be not be in Phase III by the end of the Summer but we would be lucky to remain in Phase II. Remember that no matter how good 80% of the population is, 20% of the population can undo all the good done by the 80%. I had full faith that given a little bit of slack, much more that 20% of the population would refuse the guidelines issued by the Governor and we would backtrack significantly. Yup, got that one right. Mandates without enforcement simply don't work. We only got back on track (at least its trending this way) because Governor required business to start enforcing the masking and distancing guidelines. It is not uniformly enforce but it is much better than earlier. Another 3-4 weeks and we may meet the Phase III guidelines for new Covid infections. Labor Day will be the next hurdle and I expect we will take another step back over the Holiday, but we can hope.

    Are we going to let this virus beat us?
    No, but it might get much worse before it gets better.

    Hey Skip, 300+. Sorry your doctor said I can't buy you any more than 2 rounds, you are at your limit.

    ZagDad
    Last edited by ZagDad84; 08-15-2020 at 06:19 PM. Reason: changing can to can't

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkipZag View Post
    Had an engineer that worked for me years ago... great guy, very smart. Problem he had was that he would get so focused on a project he would tune out everything around him. Things were moving forward around him that he needed to be aware of and be part of.
    Now I know what your problem with me is.

    Not sure why I stay on this thread other than to bring up other thoughts (and to irritate a few ).
    You'd miss me.

    Stay Safe Skip,

    ZagDad

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by caduceus View Post
    Apologies. I was in a bad moment at the time, and over-read what you were trying to portray. Your post was valuable and makes much more sense in proper context. See? Learn new things and we adjust (or is it "a just"...heh).

    =cad=
    No Worries Cad.

    I really try to take the time to make my posts clear but sometimes it happens. If you look at my posts you will see I continually edit my posts because I found a missing word(s), an extraneous letter or two, etc. I can't ever seem to post a perfect grammatically correct post without posting and re-reading over and over again (wow, look at that, three uses of "post" in a single sentence). Reminds me of my freshman English Composition class with Dr. Wadden. I had nightmares of that class.

    ZagDad

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    Wow... is this a discussion on this thread?

    And ZD, you are welcome for me helping you hit 300.

    You know I don’t like being a Debbie Downer... when I say I’m concerned and surprised at the way we are taking on this fight against Covid-19.... I’m not putting down those who are fighting their hearts out... I concerned about those who are giving in to it... and there are some. Some in very important positions. They are sitting back waiting and blaming.

    That is why I was really impressed with Tummy and his staff finding a safe way to continue serving his patience.
    Way back when... Cad suggested that if my daughter-in-law went back to her class that she wear a N-95 mask for her protection. A great suggestion for her protection. And to add to that... school administrators, teachers and parents have worked very hard at ways to protect the children and themselves. Sometime in the future they will need to take that step for the kids.

    And as for politics... it’s an animal that we have to live with... and you better not ignore it.

    As for this thread... we need to respect each other’s thoughts and concerns towards Covid-19. If you disagree, fine. Please try to discuss it in a respectful way.

    Does anyone know if all the players are on campus?

    Go Zags!!

  16. #316
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    Bias, Bias, Bias and more Bias.

    I am speaking strictly for me. I work 12-18 hours a day on a computer 5- days a week and frequently at least one day on the weekend. When you are a one horse shop, there is nobody to delegate the work to. You are more likely to get an e-mail from me at 3:00 AM than you are at 8:00 AM. It is what it is.

    Like most people on their phones, I have alerts set up from most of the main stream media sources (sports and news). When I see an article that contains an interesting headline, I read it and if it contains info (sports, news or otherwise) I think people on this board will find interesting I post the article and/or link to the article. Most times I add very little or no commentary, just post the article and hope for some discussion. I frankly don't care if it agrees with your point of view, disagrees with your point of view, or whatever. It had some information I found interesting and I posted it. Yes, most of the articles come from mainstream media sites because that is where most people get their info. If you don't like my sources, don't read it, post your own info, whatever, no skin off my nose.

    I also try not to post multiple articles containing the same data (would not want to lecture people on the board) but as new data becomes available, I will post it and if follows the same vein as previous articles, deal with it. You have the ability to post any article to your heart's content, if you chose not to.......... Just like if you don't vote, you can't complain about the results, same applies here, if you don't post.......

    So, with the rant over, here is some new health data:

    One of the Biggest COVID Risks Actually Only Affects Men, Study Finds
    Lauren Gray 2 hrs ago

    Coronavirus has a notoriously wide range of possible outcomes: while many patients survive unscathed with no detectable symptoms, others suffer an onslaught of complications that ultimately lead to death. How each person fares seems determined by how the disease is compounded by risk factors—a long list which includes obesity, according to the CDC. However, a surprising new study published in the journal Annals of Internal Medicine finds that obesity—once considered an equal threat to men and women alike—may only serve as an independent risk factor in the cases of men.

    Though many have assumed that obesity contributes to COVID mortality because of its association with conditions like heart disease, diabetes, respiratory conditions, and more, the study concluded that obese men—especially middle-aged men under the age of 60—fared worse than normal weight individuals, even in the absence of these conditions.
    Forgot to add the link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wel...7Ns?li=BBnb7Kz

    ZagDad

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    From the Spokesman-Review:

    ‘Plateauing is not enough’: State health officials say return to school depends on ‘sustained decline’
    UPDATED: Sat., Aug. 15, 2020

    By Arielle Dreher
    arielled@spokesman.com
    (509) 459-5467

    The number of new coronavirus cases is plateauing throughout the state, suggests a new modeling report published Friday .

    When new cases of the virus are broken down by age groups, however, the number of newly infected people older than 40 rose in Spokane County through the end of July.

    While people in their 40s make up 11% of the population, it accounts for nearly 14% of the county’s COVID-19 cases. Cases in residents over the age of 50 have also risen in recent weeks.

    The Institute for Disease Modeling report used data through the end of July. In the first weeks of August, however, case counts have tapered. Hospitalizations have also eased this week after spikes earlier this month.

    The most recent seven-day average of new cases reported per day in Spokane County is 69, according to state data. This rolling average is down from the end of July, when Spokane County was averaging 85 cases per day.

    On Friday, the Spokane Regional Health District confirmed 46 new COVID-19 cases.

    Ten Spokane County residents died this week from COVID-19, and 95 residents have died from the virus so far. There are 70 patients hospitalized in Spokane hospitals with the virus, including 38 county residents.

    Despite the number of cases beginning to level off, it won’t be enough to get students back in classrooms this fall, state health officials warned on Friday.

    “Plateauing is not enough to keep the epidemic under control,” the Friday situation report says. “We must transition to a state of sustained decline in new cases as has taken place in Yakima.”

    The Institute for Disease Modeling also released a detailed modeling report for reopening schools, based on King County data, on Friday.

    In brief, the report predicted that putting students in classrooms would result in a jump in COVID-19 cases.

    “We should expect cases, and we should expect outbreaks,” said Lacy Fehrenbach, deputy secretary for the COVID-19 response at the state Department of Health.

    She noted most counties should not embrace a return to school for in-person learning because incidence rates remain too high.

    Spokane County’s incidence rate is 201 cases per 100,000 residents in the two weeks from July 26 to Aug. 8. King County’s incidence rate is 86 cases per 100,000 residents.
    Read the rest of the article here: https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...as-state-heal/

    ZagDad

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    Just for you Skip:

    CDC's chief of staff, deputy chief of staff depart agency
    By Nick Valencia,
    CNN 6 hrs ago

    Two senior Trump political appointees departed the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, a senior official at the agency confirmed to CNN.

    Kyle McGowan, the chief of staff, and Amanda Campbell, the deputy chief of staff, resigned effective Friday, leaving to start a consulting firm, the official said. Both left voluntarily, the official added.

    "The CDC is filled with dedicated public health professionals that come to work every day with one purpose: to save lives. Particularly during the response to COVID-19, they have continued to work tirelessly, often unrecognized, to protect the health and safety of Americans. Amanda and I are honored to have had the opportunity to serve alongside each and every one of them. I'm grateful that they are on the front lines fighting to make our nation and world a healthier and safer place to live," McGowan said in a statement. "Amanda and I spent more than two years serving at the CDC and chose to leave to start our own business."

    Politico first reported the news of their departures.

    The pair had been criticized by Trump administration officials for not being loyal enough. McGowan started working in Health and Human Services under then-Secretary Tom Price. He first served as director of external affairs for HHS before moving to the CDC. CNN has reached out to HHS for comment about the departures.

    McGowan was the first ever CDC chief of staff who was a political appointee, the official said.

    CNN saw the letter sent by Campbell Friday morning announcing her departure and thanking the CDC for her time at the agency.

    As the US battles the coronavirus pandemic, there's been a rift between the White House and the CDC and a disconnect in messaging.

    The CDC has fought questions about its trust and credibility and drawn accusations from the West Wing that the agency bungled early efforts to ramp up testing — a critical misstep in the nation's handling of the crisis. CDC officials in May told CNN that their agency's efforts to mount a coordinated response to the Covid-19 pandemic had been hamstrung by the White House.

    The agency's director, Dr. Robert Redfield, admitted late last month in an interview with ABC News that there have been issues with the federal response and that the US was slow in recognizing the coronavirus threat from Europe.
    Article Link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...d8k?li=BBnba9O

    Politics indeed,

    ZagDad

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    Thanks ZD . CNN.... no bias, bias, bias there...

    I do like you posting sports articles... not so much political agenda driven ones.

    Some articles today on the impact to small college towns due to no FB this fall... another effect because of the virus.

    You Stay Safe also ZD...

    Go Zags!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkipZag View Post
    I do like you posting sports articles... not so much political agenda driven ones.
    Hey Skip, how about one with both??

    Does that make me ambidextrous or just ambiguous?

    NCAA's top doctor: COVID-19 testing needs to improve to play
    By RALPH D. RUSSO, AP / 5:24 pm ET Sun Aug 16, 2020

    The NCAA’s chief medical officer says there is a narrow path to playing college sports during the coronavirus pandemic and if testing nationwide does not improve, it cannot be done.

    Dr. Brian Hainline told CNN late Saturday that “everything would have to line up perfectly” for college sports to be played this fall. Much of the fall college sports season has been canceled, with conferences hoping to make up competitions, including football, in the spring.

    But not everyone has accepted those decisions.
    Yep, you got to click the link to read the rest right here: https://my.xfinity.com/articles/news...ge-Sports-7882

    ZagDad
    Last edited by ZagDad84; 08-16-2020 at 09:58 PM. Reason: forgot the link

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    Skip, I honestly thought you might find the content of the article more interesting then the source of the article.

    Here is an interesting article in today's S-R Sunday paper. For this article I will provide some personal commentary. The article concerns comments made by Senator Steven Thayn R-Emmett, a fourth-term state senator who previously served three terms in the House. At issue of Sen. Thayn's comments were who should set policy; the experts or the elected officials. Sen. Thayn's comments have now apparently gone viral all around the U.S.

    While Sen. Thayn's comments don't impact me or anybody outside of Idaho, I did find the review of the Senator's comments by political scientist Jasper LiCalzi, professor emeritus at the College of Idaho who taught at the C of I for 27 years and Dr. David Pate, who is both a physician and an attorney and the retired CEO of St. Luke’s Health System very interesting and their responses could provide a measure of understanding of the positions of some people posting on this thread. Take a look, it is interesting and not necessarily what I expected.

    Should experts set policy? Senator fears elitism, totalitarianism
    By Betsy Russell
    Idaho Press

    BOISE – When he said during a legislative hearing Monday that “listening to experts to set policy is an elitist approach” and that he’s “fearful it leads to totalitarianism,” Sen. Steven Thayn didn’t expect his comments to go viral and show up in newscasts about Idaho across the country.

    But he stands by his comments and doesn’t regret them, he told the Idaho Press.

    “If you deconstruct what ‘listen to the experts’ means, some people take that to mean ‘follow my experts,’ ” said Thayn, R-Emmett, a fourth-term state senator who previously served three terms in the House. “I agree you have to listen to experts, but some people mean ‘blindly follow the experts I agree with.’ There is no unbiased expert.”

    Here’s what Thayn said during the hearing: “One of the things that I have heard in this pandemic that has bothered me is that there’s a lot of people who are willing to go back to school, go back to work, and yet we’re letting a few fearful people control the lives of those people who are not fearful.

    “What’s happening is that we’re having a standardized approach by people saying that we need to listen to the experts,” he said. “Listening to experts to set policy is an elitist approach, and I fear an elitist approach. I’m also fearful that it leads to totalitarianism, especially when you say, ‘Well, we’re doing it for the public good.’ America was founded on the idea that people weighed their own risks, did what they thought was best for their own interests.

    “… The role of experts should be to give us the best information they have, and we should weigh it. They should never set policy.”
    Yep, you are going to have to click to see the analysis of Sen. Thayn's comments: https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...y-senator-fea/

    ZagDad

  22. #322
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    Thanks ZD... couple of good articles.

    Here’s the thing... there are a whole lot of Experts around these days. And a good leader needs to listen to them... but in the end it’s the leader who has to take in all of this advice and right or wrong has to make the call. I can guarantee that not everyone will be happy with the leaders decision... been there.

    We have seen our President, Governor and local Health Officer make tough calls that some folks agreed with and others disagreed. But someone has to and hopefully it turns out to be okay.

    As for the NCAA’s Chief Medical Officer... I would hope that if he is the one to make the official call on fall sports, that he has asked for a lot of input... I thought that the NCAA has said they are leaving it up to each conference to make the decision whether to play or not....

    I know that in some of the states, high school football is being played... saw a picture of fans socially distancing in the stands at a high school game.

    Still think the WIAA played it right and moved sports back by four months. And then there still will be the Expert that will say it’s to soon...

    Go Zags!!

  23. #323
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    Keep your hats on folks. Kids are going to start getting to Gonzaga this week with classes starting September 1, 2020. Let's hope the students listen and adhere to the directions and guidelines provided by President Thayne McCulloh and Bob Lutz.

    Let's hope Gonzaga has better luck than University of Alabama. From Newsweek:

    University of Alabama Reports 566 COVID-19 Cases a Week After Classes Start
    Daniel Villarreal 24 mins ago

    Barely a week after the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa began classes, the school has reported 566 newly confirmed cases of coronavirus among students, faculty and staff, according to the university's dashboard for tracking cases.

    The dashboard states that 29,938 students have been tested for the virus, and that the positivity rate among students is at 1.04 percent. Those figures would suggest that roughly 311 students have tested positive, although the university hasn't released an exact number of student cases.

    The total number of students tested includes sentinel testing on campus, self-reported tests from private providers and point-of-care testing in campus health centers for students with symptoms.

    "Despite the robust testing, training, health and safety measures we carefully and clearly implemented, there is an unacceptable rise in positive COVID cases on our campus," wrote University President Stuart Bell in a public letter on Sunday.

    In the letter, Bell emphasized the university's rules requiring students to maintain mask wearing, social distancing, low crowd sizes, testing and quarantine. Disregarding such precautions endanger the school's ability to finish the fall semester on campus, he said.
    Read entire article here: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...5ZF?li=BBnbcA1

    Spokane County has been making good strides towards achieving Phase III. If we can keep our heads out of our rectums during Labor day, and not set us back a month or more, We might just make Phase III before winter sets in.

    ZagDad

  24. #324
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    Not good news for NC State. From ESPN:

    NC State pauses all athletic activities because of COVID-19 cluster in athletic department
    Andrea Adelson
    ESPN Senior Writer

    NC State has paused all athletics-related activities after identifying 27 positive cases within the athletic department, the school announced Monday.

    Not all cases involve student-athletes. NC State did not specify the athletic programs directly affected.

    Overall, NC State said it has conducted 2,053 tests of student-athletes, coaches and staff with 30 total positives (a 1.46% positivity rate). That includes 693 new tests with 22 new positives since its previous report about two weeks ago.

    Last week, NC State announced that all undergraduate courses will be online only, starting Monday, after discovering that the coronavirus had spread among the student body.

    On Monday, the university reported three new clusters of the virus, including the one within the athletic department. There are now 14 reported clusters at NC State. The North Carolina Division of Public Health defines a cluster as a minimum of five cases that are deemed close in proximity or location.
    Read the entire article here: https://www.espn.com/college-sports/...tic-department

    ZagDad

  25. #325
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    How about maybe not "good news" but not "bad" news and something to look forward in the next three weeks. From ESPN:

    NCAA targets mid-September for decision on college basketball start
    Myron Medcalf
    ESPN Staff Writer

    The NCAA is prepared to shift the Nov. 10 start date for college basketball if necessary, according to a statement released Monday by Dan Gavitt, senior vice president of basketball.

    By mid-September, the governing body will announce its first crucial decision about the upcoming season. Per NCAA rules, full practices can start 42 days before a team's first game. In the statement, Gavitt said "contingency" plans have been developed that will allow the NCAA to move the start date for practices and games if necessary due to the coronavirus pandemic.

    "In the coming weeks, the NCAA Division I Men's and Women's Basketball Oversight Committees will take the lead with me in a collaborative process of finalizing any recommendations for consideration by the NCAA Division I Council for the start of the college basketball season," Gavitt said in the statement. "By mid-September, we will provide direction about whether the season and practice start on time or a short-term delay is necessitated by the ongoing pandemic."
    You can read the rest here: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...sketball-start

    ZagDad

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