Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Women's Div. I Hoops Switching From RPI to NET to Assess Teams

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    3,680

    Default Women's Div. I Hoops Switching From RPI to NET to Assess Teams

    From ESPN:

    Women's Div. I Hoops Switching From RPI to NET to Assess Teams
    Mechelle Voepel
    ESPN.com
    11:24 AM PT

    Division I women's basketball is moving to the NCAA Evaluation Tool (NET) starting with the 2020-21 NCAA tournament and will no longer use the RPI. Men's basketball made this move before the 2018-19 season.

    The NET, like the RPI, is a sorting tool for NCAA tournament selection of 32 at-large teams and the seeding of all 64 teams on the bracket. The NET is determined by whom a team played, where it played, how efficiently it played and the game result.

    The NET is not the sole factor for NCAA tournament selection, of course, just as the RPI wasn't. These other criteria remain: availability of talent (injuries, for example), bad losses, common opponents, being competitive in losses, overall record, conference record, non-conference record, early-in-season vs. late-in-season competition, head-to-head results, regional rankings, strength of schedule, strength of conference and significant wins. There is also some subjective evaluation from personal observation that is included in committee discussions.

    As for why the decision was made now, the NCAA women's selection committee said the NET is a more accurate and contemporary tool than the RPI, and after studying how it was implemented on the men's side, it was decided to do the same for women.

    While the NET algorithm is fundamentally very similar to that used for the men, it was developed by studying women's basketball data exclusively over the past 10 years. The NET includes two factors: Adjusted Net Efficiency and Team Value Index.
    Entire article including interview links can be found here: https://www.espn.com/womens-college-...t-assess-teams

    Definition of Adjusted Net Efficiency and Team Value Index can be found here: https://twitter.com/ncaawbb/status/1...654529/photo/1

    Nice to see D-1 Wbb moving out of the stone age as far as their evaluation tools are concerned. Will be interesting to see if the change helps or hurts the Lady Zags. One thing is for sure, the Lady Zags need to quit losing late in the season to WCC teams and they need to start winning their conference tournament.

    Bring on 2020-2021.

    Is it November yet?

    ZagDad

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,553

    Default

    a whole lot of qualifiers on top of the NET......I'm happy to see that perhaps playing on opponents courts and winning might actually mean something.....too many teams with too many very soft OOC schedules.

    sometimes I know it can't be helped....

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    753

    Default

    I hope the wcc is better this year. It was pretty weak. Portland should be better as should BYU. I hope they can win some tough non conference games as well and bring league up.

    I hope we ramp up and play some better games too. We don’t have luxury of home and homes like men. We need to go on Road even if it means no return. We are only allowed one 3 game tournament per year right?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,553

    Default

    I don't know about how many pre conference tournaments a team can go to but it seems IIRC that I've seen some teams play in two....now the quality of the different tournaments is for debate too....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    538

    Default

    Whether its the RPI or the NET... “it’s not the sole factor”. This is where things will play into who makes the tournament.
    From the real real real early predictions... GU still has to prove themselves. Having the returning group they have and where they ended, you would have thought their rankings would be higher.

    Go Zags!!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    3,680

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SkipZag View Post
    Whether its the RPI or the NET... “it’s not the sole factor”. This is where things will play into who makes the tournament.
    From the real real real early predictions... GU still has to prove themselves. Having the returning group they have and where they ended, you would have thought their rankings would be higher.

    Go Zags!!
    Howevah, don't become too comfortable drinking the Kool-Aid.

    The "NET" and "Team Value Index" are the two values that every member of the selection committee will look at.

    In some of the listed other evaluation areas the Lady Zags would have done very well such as; overall record, conference record, non-conference record, regional rankings, being competitive in losses.

    In other evaluation areas, the Lady Zags would not have done as well such as; availability of talent (injuries, for example - KC), bad losses (St. Mary's & Portland), early-in-season vs. late-in-season competition (2 losses in last 7 games, & forced upon by being a mid-major as we can only play P-5 teams in early season), strength of conference (have to hope the conference improves as a whole).

    Other areas, the Lady Zags do have some control over, but did not do a great job this year such as overall strength of schedule and significant wins.

    Keep in mind that a member of the committee will be assigned to the WCC conference to report on the teams in that conference to the committee. The vast majority of the committee members will not directly be watching and evaluating (eye test) the Lady Zags.

    The Lady Zags still have a ways to go to convince some people of the validity of the program. For example, the staff members at the Swish Appeal (a women's basketball community) put their own bracket together and despite the Lady Zags being ranked #13 overall in the final of both polls and essentially assured of being a Top-4 seed, the Swish Appeal listed the lady zags at #30 and placed Missouri State more than 10 spots above us.

    We need to take care of the items we have control over (scheduling, beating P5 teams, winning late in the season & conference tournaments) to try and remove any doubt the committee may have. We do not want to leave it to luck or a coin flip.

    ZagDad
    Last edited by ZagDad84; 05-06-2020 at 02:04 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    538

    Default

    Way passed the Kool-aid ZD...

    I don’t think there is an easy answer or trusted decision on who plays or where they are set in the tournament... if the committee acts like a bunch of ice skating judges. You made my point of not leaving it to luck or coin flip.

    One thing that I think has helped GU in the rankings is our coaching staff. With CLF making the top ranks of the national coaches list and the consistent year to year showing of her teams, GU is starting to be a constant in the top 25.

    Still with KG loosing a number of key players, you would think they would drop in the AP.... but I think they will still be in the top 10 if not the top 5. CLF has 9 key players returning and will be lucky probably to make the top 20.

    I call heads...

    Go Zags!!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,553

    Default

    KG's getting a lot of new 5 stars....

    GU has already established its self in women's college bb....we're on the west coast and even the GU men get short shift from TPTB.....

    teams from the big conferences would rather not play us at all, let alone home and home....that means they "know" about us......we're competitive...

    our team is going to be strong next season crossing fingers all stay healthy and Kylee turns out as expected(really good)....

    CLF is a emerging star in womens bb coaching ranks....

    and after all, KG always said that GU was "the best coaching job in America"...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    3,680

    Default

    First, the GU men are not getting any sort of short shift. Who is the pre-season #1 team in the country next year? When you are consistently ranked in the pre-season Top-10 and usually the Top-5. When you are able to get a home and home with UNC and Kansas, get a #1 seed essentially year after year, and get invited to the best holiday tournaments, you are not getting the short shift, you have arrived. It has taken 10-15 years of fighting tooth and nail and overachieving (according to the main stream media) to get there, but the GU men have arrived. Maybe being the only team in the nation to reach five (5) straight sweet 16s will do that for you.

    It is not the same on the Wbb side. You do not see the Marquette's, Villanova's winning it all. The last time a non-P5 won the NCAA tournament (other than UConn) was in 1988 and the last time a non-P5 team made the final was in 1998. Not a glowing record if you want respect from the P5 conferences or the selection committee. This lack of respect is reflected in the fact that no non-P5 team has ever been awarded a Top-4 seed with the opportunity to host the first and second rounds of the tournament. Not given a chance to show what they could do on their home court.

    If the mid-major Wbb want the respect of the P5 conferences and tournament committee, they have to perform in March. Gaudy records, conference titles, even conference tournament titles have not been sufficient to be awarded a Top-4 seed. In addition, to the conference titles and conference tournament titles, you have to play and beat the P5 teams. You have to win the holiday tournaments. You have to show you belong. Make no mistake, the P5 conferences don't want you to get a Top-4 seed. The NCAA tournament committee does not want to award a mid-major a Top-4 seed. It is in neither of their best interests. The mid-majors have to go and take the Top-4 seed. Leave no doubt that you have "earned" the Top-4 seed.

    With the exception of some questionable scheduling (yes I have heard all of the excuses, but you have to do something about it), the Lady Zags did just about everything right. Won the holiday tournament, taking down a P5 team in the process. Took Stanford to overtime on their court (would have been nice to win) essentially ran the conference schedule, even coming back from 20 point deficits, a perfect conference season up until the hot shooting St. Mary's brought GU back to earth. Then the loss in the WCC semi-finals on the last second shot.

    The Lady Zags have won the WCC championship 5 out of the 6 years CLF has been the coach, which is great. However, CLF has only won 3 out of the 5 WCC tournaments when they have won the WCC championship. Yes, there have been injuries, but nobody outside of Zagville wants to hear it. You're the tournament favorite, finish it, bring home the trophy. In CLF's first year she had a chance to move the program forward by getting to the elite 8, leading the mighty Tennessee by 17 with 5-1/2 minutes to go and then WSU took over and we "coug-ed it". Then the Lady Zags did not make the NCAA tournament the next year, then lost in the first round the next two (2) years and finally last year we won a first round game in the NCAA tournament. What kind of history have the Lady Zags shown the selection committee? The GU men have not only won the WCC championship, and for the vast majority of years, won the WCC tournament and then in the NCAA tournament the GU men have played up to and usually beyond their seedings. That is how you get respect, you earn it.

    The Lady Zags have not yet "earned" the right to be considered a Top-16 team automatically year after year. A Top-25 team, sure, but every year they are going to have to kick, scratch, and fight their way from a Top-6/Top-7 seed to get into the Top 16 seeds. You are going to be consistently harassed from P5 teams ranked below you and you are going to be penalized more heavily for losses than an equivalent P5 team. You know it going into the season. CLF has led the Lady Zags to where the nation "respects" them enough to list them in the pre-season Top-25, but she has a ways to go to get the Lady Zags up to being a regularly Top-16 ranked team. A stronger schedule, more highly rated recruits, more consistent play during tournament time are a few places to start.

    Get the attitude the GU men had 10 years ago. Play anybody, anywhere and beat them. Win the conference championship and finish it with the conference tournament title. Don't give them a chance to drop you. Don't loss games you are supposed to win. While the P5 teams will likely get a pass (or three) during the conference season, the mid-majors don't get a pass at all. There have not been a lot of bad losses in the CLF era, yet they always seem to come at a bad time for the NCAA tournament. You are supposed to be peaking in March, not losing games leading into or in the conference tournament. It leaves a bad impression on the committee and can easily wipe out 4 months of truly remarkable ball.

    Finally, when you get to the NCAA tournament, you simply cannot have a team with a Top-8 or better seed, losing in the first round. If you are a Top-5 seed or better, you have to make it to the second weekend. You have to show the NCAA committee that you belong.

    It has been a long, uphill struggle for the mid-majors. This year, there were more mid-major teams projected to be seeded #7 or better than ever before. The mid-majors are making inroads but there is still a long ways to go. We fans know what the mid-majors need to do, so you know that the coaches and ADs certainly understand what they need to do.

    Next year, the pre-season bracketology shows one non-P5 team seeded at #4 (Depaul), two (2), non-P5 teams are seeded at #6 (Gonzaga & Missouri State), and one non-P5 team seeded at #8 (Marquette). The mid-majors have a lot to prove next year and a very long way to get there. With a Top-6 seed, preseason, the Lady Zags have a shorter road to hoe than most, but they still need to "earn" that respect.

    Only six more months before the journey begins,

    ZagDad

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •