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Thread: What Zag players should have made NBA in your opinion?

  1. #26
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    Think they were both Sophs., Bogo.
    This post is for March Madness seeding purposes only.

  2. #27
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    There have been so many 1st round picks that have been head scratchers and that makes the Calvary snub even more difficult to understand.
    I miss Mike Hart

  3. #28
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    Maybe I'll say Calvary got snubbed, but Pangos, Karno, Batista, Bell... none of those were NBA players. Harris maybe could have gone after his freshman year when the iron was hot but he wouldn't have stuck. Downs and Heytvelt didn't have the mentality for it. NBA is as different from college as college ball is from high school. Its just a different style of play which is why NWG was never going to make it when he declared. NBA doesn't need players whose first attribute on a stat sheet is 'leader' even when all the rest of his stats were very good as well. Hopefully he can find a spot now.

    Maybe Pargo if he shot better or Norvelle if he can not see himself as Gods gift but there is a reason I don't follow the pro league other than to check in on old GU player's stats from time to time. It is not for me.

  4. #29
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    Heytelt was probably our most talented big in program history, but he seemed diminished post injury. He also had some issues in terms of mentality. Micah never could dribble, which hampers him as playing as a 2 guard. Pargo can't hit the broadside of a barn against top athletes. Pangos and NWG both have significant physical limitations. Casey was a miss, especially with his frame and athleticism. Guy could jump.

  5. #30
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    NWG and Pangos have been brought up a few times and I feel that these should have an asterisk by them. NWG was drafted and later signed a contract with the Jazz, and the verdict is still out on him. Pangos reportedly turned down an NBA deal to keep playing in Europe (for more money). I have them stashed away mentally in a subcategory.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    Heytelt was probably our most talented big in program history, but he seemed diminished post injury. He also had some issues in terms of mentality.
    The injury that really hurt JH was the one to Sacre. That moved him from a stretch four to an uninterested 5. I really liked the 09 team because we had all these imperfect characters working together to make a great team. Heytvelt at the 5, Downs and Pendo filling in at the 4, a PG with limited outside shooting and yet a ton of talent.

    The stretch big wasn't nearly as important as it is now to NBA teams. I wonder if Sacre came out now if he'd have the same success and if Heytvelt was a senior now if he'd fit the game better.

    I didn't know he showed up out of shape, but that couldn't help things at all.

    Calvary would be a late first rounder in today's game where his 40%+ from three point range stretches the defense and size inside isn't nearly as important as it was 20 years ago.

    I think Heytvelt fits the modern game better, but I know Calvary does. What's strange is I never thought of Calvary as a miss at the time due to his size, while I did think Cavalry was a miss because he had the size of a traditional PF and the skill set the NBA was headed toward.

  7. #32
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    Karno all the way. He was such a good defender, and was just automatic from inside. His defense didn't necessarily show up in the box score, but he was straight up intimidating to drive against. I think just having him in the key made players think twice about driving the lane.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyzag View Post
    Karno all the way. He was such a good defender, and was just automatic from inside. His defense didn't necessarily show up in the box score, but he was straight up intimidating to drive against. I think just having him in the key made players think twice about driving the lane.
    College players maybe (and I loved watching that), but if he could have even gotten back in transition during an NBA paced game, he would have fouled out in the second quarter of every game as faster players drew fouls against him. Traditional centers are not in the pro game anymore.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    .... Casey was a miss, especially with his frame and athleticism. Guy could jump.
    Casey took 200 three point attempts as a Zag .... and made 82 of them. His freshman year he shot about 30 percent from three. He ended up at 41 percent. Kid could play ....

    "To be continued ....."
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  10. #35
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    Pargo can't hit the broadside of a barn against top athletes
    -- have to disagree on that this one -- his last NBA game in February while playing for Golden State -- he had 15 pts (3-5 from three) against Phoenix-- not too bad for a 34 year old who has worked hard in his career.

    I agree that Casey would have been a good one if he had made it and Batista --with a little bit more ability to elevate should have had a shot -- his strength inside was unmatched.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdawg View Post
    -- have to disagree on that this one -- his last NBA game in February while playing for Golden State -- he had 15 pts (3-5 from three) against Phoenix-- not too bad for a 34 year old who has worked hard in his career.

    I agree that Casey would have been a good one if he had made it and Batista --with a little bit more ability to elevate should have had a shot -- his strength inside was unmatched.
    I think Pargo's biggest issue was his inability to be a "consistent" outside shooter...3 for 5 is good but his average was well in the low 30%...He is a hard worker that is for sure but just didn't have the feel shooters need to have...now Pargo with Pangos ability to shoot 3's would have made him a 10-12 year player, barring injuries of course...imo

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooter73 View Post
    College players maybe (and I loved watching that), but if he could have even gotten back in transition during an NBA paced game, he would have fouled out in the second quarter of every game as faster players drew fouls against him. Traditional centers are not in the pro game anymore.
    You know I always thought he was deceptively fast down the court. Who could forget the game against UW at home where he beat every single UW player down the court for the two handed jam.

    https://youtu.be/kJFk0mAPffc?t=96
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
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  13. #38
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    I’m not clear on the criteria here. We are talking about some players like Pargo who has been a 10 year pro with multiple stints in NBA albeit shorter ones.

    Casey is clearly the biggest head scratcher though I heard he got into some scraps during pre-draft workouts that didn’t help him. He had an edge. 6’8”. Tough rebounder could hit threes. He wore the wrong name on the front of his jersey at the time. Today he would get drafted, IMO and play

    ZZ

  14. #39
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    I agree 1000% on Casey Calvary. He had it all, but just played in the wrong era when the NBA didn’t value 6’8” posts who could break backboards and step out to shoot the occasional 3. Yet if he were 2 inches taller, he’s a lottery pick. Or if he had played 5 years later, he’s drafted and puts together a rock solid NBA career ala Paul Millsap. Timing is everything ����#♂️

    The other guy that should’ve made the league is Steven Gray. I was at the Davidson game in Raleigh when he matched Steph Curry shot for shot in the 1st half as a FRESHMAN. It was evident at that point he was a special Zag. One of the most underrated greats in school history, imo.

  15. #40
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    I thought the biggest problem with Heytvelt was GU tried to make him into something he wasn't. He didn't like the noise inside and preferred to play on the perimeter. But GU has always preferred to run their offense through the post and do to "need", JH was that post player. But, IMHO, what really hurt Josh, was GU put weight on him which negated a lot of his athletic advantage. It would be like taking Tillie, bulking him up, and asking him to be your primary post player. Not that KT couldn't do it and not the Josh didn't do it, but that would not be the best use of Tillie and it was not in Josh's best, long term interests.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyzag View Post
    You know I always thought he was deceptively fast down the court. Who could forget the game against UW at home where he beat every single UW player down the court for the two handed jam.

    https://youtu.be/kJFk0mAPffc?t=96
    It’s funny, as I was writing that today I thought of that exact play and friend not to focus on it too much lol

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zags11 View Post
    Ill say Casey Calvary. I just feel like if he was on the zags team of the last 10 years he is in the NBA.
    Rem Bakamus all that 1st round talent is now just sitting on a bench playing with pencils in Waco, Texas. He should have declared when he had the chance because he could have fit in well as a starting PG with the Cleveland Cavaliers.

  18. #43
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    If you could transport Casey to 2020 and Karno to 2001, maybe they both could have played in the NBA.

  19. #44
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    https://twitter.com/nolan_hughes24/s...767110/photo/1

    4 best point guards of all time?
    i realize this is a bit off point, but it does discuss one zag that made it big in the NBA
    lots of opinions on this, including some well known players chime in with their opinion

    no doubt about it educated fans do not just go for the super shooters like Steph C.
    I was surprised how voters treated and did not treat John Stockton in this poll

  20. #45
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    Casey Calvary 100%

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    Heytelt was probably our most talented big in program history
    In the last 20 years I'd rank Josh somewhere around 5th or 6th most talented big? lower? Sabonis #1, Collins #2, Casey and Clarke tied for #3, and perhaps Josh ties with a few others at #4.

    The only clear NBA "miss" in my mind is Casey. He was probably limited by height and rebounding ability. He was a good rebounder but not a great one. Ranked low on rebounding out of position - the opposite of what we saw from Clarke. But he could shoot the rock and is still one of the freakiest athletes to lace it up for the Zags. The only guy who I thought was freakier is Clarke.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Few
    We are not here as a #%$&%&! Courtesy!!!

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by rennis View Post
    In the last 20 years I'd rank Josh somewhere around 5th or 6th most talented big? lower? Sabonis #1, Collins #2, Casey and Clarke tied for #3, and perhaps Josh ties with a few others at #4.

    The only clear NBA "miss" in my mind is Casey. He was probably limited by height and rebounding ability. He was a good rebounder but not a great one. Ranked low on rebounding out of position - the opposite of what we saw from Clarke. But he could shoot the rock and is still one of the freakiest athletes to lace it up for the Zags. The only guy who I thought was freakier is Clarke.
    Agreed, the more time goes on the lower on the list Josh falls. I feel like he was a big deal when he arrived, but now we're getting guys almost yearly who are more talented.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
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  23. #48
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    If Calvary and Karnowski were to switch years, they both might have made it. 20 years ago, Karno was a typical center (back injury not withstanding) and Calvary fits into todays game a little better.
    It's not funny.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    If Calvary and Karnowski were to switch years, they both might have made it. 20 years ago, Karno was a typical center (back injury not withstanding) and Calvary fits into todays game a little better.
    Good observation, I agree wholeheartedly.

    Re the PG link, sorry but no way CP3 or Curry are ahead of Stockton and for that matter Nash.

    Re Pangos in the NBA, I think mostly a matter of 2-3" inches, in saying that during Canada's National team season last year, Nick Nurse (who got to see Kevin up close for 2 months) was very impressed with him and I recall he said Kevin could find a spot in the NBA.

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