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Thread: Why BYU, not SMC is our biggest Rival

  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsObserver View Post
    I think BYU, with its fan base and facilities, will end up being the better rival. Are they today, I’m not sure. I enjoy playing them more than SMC, certainly when the game is away.

    And yes, they are a huge addition to the conference. I actually like them, in the same way someone might like their uncle who is a bit crazy, but good to have around.
    This is how I feel too. I cheer for all WCC teams outside of their games against us. BYU is the team I hate losing to most, but there is a reason for that. I still however cheer for them in the OOC and in WCC play. I respect their players and coaches. I think sometimes they get a bad rap for a few Kafusi plays. Pope, despite his energetic antics, is a great coach. A majority of their players are good young men and astounding players. I for one will be glad not to see Haws, Childs, or Toolson anymore against us. I do however hope we get to see Wade take the floor this next season.

  2. #27
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    Now, back when we were playing UW every year, I would argue that brought out the most energy in the team and fans. Even when they were inferior to SMC, that game was the most anticipated game imo.

  3. #28

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    I went back and tracked backwards our losses per team since the 2013/2014 season. Over the last 6 years Gonzaga has lost to:
    BYU 5 times
    SMC 4 times
    Arizona 3 times
    North Carolina 2 Times
    Mighigan, Tenn, Texas Tech, Florida, Villanova, SDSU, Florida State, TAMU, UCLA, SMU, Syracuse, Duke, Dayton, KSU, Portland (Barf), Memphis, San Diego (Barf) all just 1 time.

    BYU has been the most successful team in beating us recently, and they managed to beat us when we were ranked 1,2, and 3 in the country. SMC isn't far behind, but they have struggled against our Elite squads.

  4. #29
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    Big deal.

    So BYU is King of a handful of regular season games. Their entire “profile”
    consists of a few wins over a ranked Gonzaga squad .... in the regular season. You give a monkey a typewriter and he's bound to spell a word.

    How have they done against the Zags in the post season?

    How have they done against anyone in the post season?

    I do not care about BYU and I do not care for BYU

    That is my feeling about it

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliZag44 View Post
    I went back and tracked backwards our losses per team since the 2013/2014 season. Over the last 6 years Gonzaga has lost to:
    BYU 5 times
    SMC 4 times
    Arizona 3 times
    North Carolina 2 Times
    Mighigan, Tenn, Texas Tech, Florida, Villanova, SDSU, Florida State, TAMU, UCLA, SMU, Syracuse, Duke, Dayton, KSU, Portland (Barf), Memphis, San Diego (Barf) all just 1 time.

    BYU has been the most successful team in beating us recently, and they managed to beat us when we were ranked 1,2, and 3 in the country. SMC isn't far behind, but they have struggled against our Elite squads.
    Last edited by GoZags; 03-23-2020 at 01:45 PM.

    "To be continued ....."
    Father Tony Lehman, SJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsObserver View Post
    Now, back when we were playing UW every year, I would argue that brought out the most energy in the team and fans. Even when they were inferior to SMC, that game was the most anticipated game imo.
    Washington never beat us. You would have to beat someone sometimes to be considered a rival.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOtherGreatOne View Post
    Washington never beat us. You would have to beat someone sometimes to be considered a rival.
    Rivalries often have some sort of competitive balance. There are exceptions, of course, as programs have ups and downs. If you attended any of those games it would be darn hard to argue it wasn’t a huge rivalry. Certainly the students saw it as such. I was one of them.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
    Big deal.

    So BYU is King of a handful of regular season games. Their entire “profile”
    consists of a few wins over a ranked Gonzaga squad .... in the regular season. You give a monkey a typewriter and he's bound to spell a word.

    How have they done against the Zags in the post season?

    How have they done against anyone in the post season?

    I do not care about BYU and I do not care for BYU

    That is my feeling about it
    +1 exactly
    Moreover, I wouldn’t stoop to the level of crediting them as a rival with their goon antics

  8. #33
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    There's no rival like St Mary's. Not even close, imo. Take there coach, Randy Bennott. Just think of all the years he refused to shake hands with Mark Ferw as he walked past him after the game and didn't even look at him. Ohhhh That creates rivalry. And yes,,,has there ever been a player we hated more than Samhan? Oh no. Never! And yes the battles agaist Patty Mills and then that guard with the mouth piece. Dang what is his name. Delladova. We hated that mouth piece, but could those two guards ever play. Those were rivals. Those were players we DID NOT LIKE. Remember the game when one of our players pulls the back of Patty Mill's jersey, and Mills goes down and is out for the game, and we beat them. I know they hate us too. They will never forget that play just as we will never forget Samhan flipping us off.

    BYU has had some good teams, but not as good as St Mary's. Even this year St Mary's bounced them out of the WCC Tournament. St Mary's has BYU's #. BYU loses so much this year, and I doubt they have the kind of players we have in our pipe line. Without Childs BYU most likely would not have made the NCAA Tournament.

    That's my 2 cents.

    Go Zags!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    There's no rival like St Mary's. Not even close, imo. Take there coach, Randy Bennott. Just think of all the years he refused to shake hands with Mark Ferw as he walked past him after the game and didn't even look at him. Ohhhh That creates rivalry. And yes,,,has there ever been a player we hated more than Samhan? Oh no. Never! And yes the battles agaist Patty Mills and then that guard with the mouth piece. Dang what is his name. Delladova. We hated that mouth piece, but could those two guards ever play. Those were rivals. Those were players we DID NOT LIKE. Remember the game when one of our players pulls the back of Patty Mill's jersey, and Mills goes down and is out for the game, and we beat them. I know they hate us too. They will never forget that play just as we will never forget Samhan flipping us off.

    BYU has had some good teams, but not as good as St Mary's. Even this year St Mary's bounced them out of the WCC Tournament. St Mary's has BYU's #. BYU loses so much this year, and I doubt they have the kind of players we have in our pipe line. Without Childs BYU most likely would not have made the NCAA Tournament.



    That's my 2 cents.

    Go Zags!!!
    Pargo took Mills down. Mills had 6 or 7 threes went he went out. Things weren’t looking good for the Zags.

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    Pargo!!! Oh yes. thanks for reminding me. I loved that guy. I remember thinking that only a player from Chicago might think about doing that. But the I changed my mind when that player broke Perkins' jaw. That was just horrible and it took Perkins most of his career to get over it.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliZag44 View Post
    I went back and tracked backwards our losses per team since the 2013/2014 season. Over the last 6 years Gonzaga has lost to:
    BYU 5 times
    SMC 4 times
    Arizona 3 times
    North Carolina 2 Times
    Mighigan, Tenn, Texas Tech, Florida, Villanova, SDSU, Florida State, TAMU, UCLA, SMU, Syracuse, Duke, Dayton, KSU, Portland (Barf), Memphis, San Diego (Barf) all just 1 time.

    BYU has been the most successful team in beating us recently, and they managed to beat us when we were ranked 1,2, and 3 in the country. SMC isn't far behind, but they have struggled against our Elite squads.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
    Big deal.

    So BYU is King of a handful of regular season games. Their entire “profile”
    consists of a few wins over a ranked Gonzaga squad .... in the regular season. You give a monkey a typewriter and he's bound to spell a word.

    How have they done against the Zags in the post season?

    How have they done against anyone in the post season?

    I do not care about BYU and I do not care for BYU

    That is my feeling about it
    I have to agree that you don't hang banners for regular season wins. SMC took a conference title from us from arguably our best team ever (yes, Rui, Clarke might be better than 2017). Whiel BYU annoys us regularly, they never once took a banner from us. SMC did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Go Zags!!!

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliZag44 View Post
    I went back and tracked backwards our losses per team since the 2013/2014 season. Over the last 6 years Gonzaga has lost to:
    BYU 5 times
    SMC 4 times
    Arizona 3 times
    North Carolina 2 Times
    Mighigan, Tenn, Texas Tech, Florida, Villanova, SDSU, Florida State, TAMU, UCLA, SMU, Syracuse, Duke, Dayton, KSU, Portland (Barf), Memphis, San Diego (Barf) all just 1 time.

    BYU has been the most successful team in beating us recently, and they managed to beat us when we were ranked 1,2, and 3 in the country. SMC isn't far behind, but they have struggled against our Elite squads.
    Dang - 3 Arizona losses in 3 consecutive years!

    A bad one in the '14 tournament, and then 2 really close games in '15 and '16.

    At least we've now beat them 3x in a row.

  13. #38
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    I went to BYU. I hate BYU more passionately than any other program and I want them to fail at everything they do. It's a despicable university named after a despicable human being. I will never in a million years understand why anyone, and especially anyone of color, would proudly wear the name of a man that said and believed this on their chest:

    Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    Dang - 3 Arizona losses in 3 consecutive years!

    A bad one in the '14 tournament, and then 2 really close games in '15 and '16.

    At least we've now beat them 3x in a row.
    The toughest loss to AZ came around 2003 with Blake and Turiaf in double OT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zags_Fanatic View Post
    I went to BYU. I hate BYU more passionately than any other program and I want them to fail at everything they do. It's a despicable university named after a despicable human being. I will never in a million years understand why anyone, and especially anyone of color, would proudly wear the name of a man that said and believed this on their chest:
    I understand your frustration, as I know the religion and culture well, but be careful; Catholic history is far from spotless. Both religions benefit from their own form of living prophecy, so that's a positive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Go Zags!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post
    I understand your frustration, as I know the religion and culture well, but be careful; Catholic history is far from spotless. Both religions benefit from their own form of living prophecy, so that's a positive.
    I was born and raised mormon so I don't have much of a horse in the catholicism/jesuit race. The problem with living prophecy is how poorly those prophecies tend to age. The LDS church has officially disavowed Brigham's racism yet still considers him to be a modern prophet who had direct access to God and was his mouthpiece for all of humanity. Personally I don't see how they can have it both ways unless followers are of the opinion that God was super racist until 1978. It's great that they are moving forward and are trying to say the right things now but that racism still exists as a fundamental tenet of the Book of Mormon and they are repeating the same mistakes with the LGBTQ community today including some monumentally homophobic and un-Christlike "revelations" in the past 5 years.

  17. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zags_Fanatic View Post
    I was born and raised mormon so I don't have much of a horse in the catholicism/jesuit race. The problem with living prophecy is how poorly those prophecies tend to age. The LDS church has officially disavowed Brigham's racism yet still considers him to be a modern prophet who had direct access to God and was his mouthpiece for all of humanity. Personally I don't see how they can have it both ways unless followers are of the opinion that God was super racist until 1978. It's great that they are moving forward and are trying to say the right things now but that racism still exists as a fundamental tenet of the Book of Mormon and they are repeating the same mistakes with the LGBTQ community today including some monumentally homophobic and un-Christlike "revelations" in the past 5 years.
    To be fair, the Bible isn't very kind towards the LGBTQ community, and that is the book we all cherish and study ourselves. Christians as a whole had very similar, and if not stronger LGBTQ views as the Mormons just a few decades ago. The Mormons have stood their ground while many others haven't.

  18. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliZag44 View Post
    To be fair, the Bible isn't very kind towards the LGBTQ community, and that is the book we all cherish and study ourselves. Christians as a whole had very similar, and if not stronger LGBTQ views as the Mormons just a few decades ago. The Mormons have stood their ground while many others haven't.
    I was wondering a). Why this thread was started and b) Why this thread is resurrected whenever it’s about to drop off Page 1.

    I am not wondering any longer.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliZag44 View Post
    To be fair, the Bible isn't very kind towards the LGBTQ community, and that is the book we all cherish and study ourselves. Christians as a whole had very similar, and if not stronger LGBTQ views as the Mormons just a few decades ago. The Mormons have stood their ground while many others haven't.
    Sure but I’m not talking about biblical ideas from thousands of years ago. 5 years ago the mormon church came out with a new policy that children with a gay parent couldn’t be blessed, baptized or truly participate in the church with their peers until they reached 18 and renounced their parents. They claim that it is Christ’s restored church and that he presides over it directly and yet that policy is in direct contradiction to everything they teach about the nature of Christ himself. Would Jesus have denied those children blessings? My personal belief is that he would have done the opposite.

    To be fair they did remove that policy after a few years but with zero apology and only after dozens of teenagers had killed themselves as a result.



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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RainierZag View Post
    I was wondering a). Why this thread was started and b) Why this thread is resurrected whenever it’s about to drop off Page 1.

    I am not wondering any longer.
    Because people are still posting here.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Because people are still posting here.
    Just my opinion, but I don't like looking back into history with current days mores, never have. Were they right in what they did? In our view, no. It's up to us as parents, teachers, advisors, etc. to put it in context. For example, it is my opinion that our history in America has a significant number of horrific and terrible acts. OTOH, in my opinion again, there is no country in world history that has tried more to fix those wrongs, though we aren't there yet.

    I appreciated the 90 minutes I spent last summer, listening to Thomas Jefferson's "interpreter", at Monticello. He's been doing it for nearly 40 years, and he brought Mr. Jefferson's words to life. A woman asked him to explain the incongruity of his words vs. his being a slaveowner. He patiently spoke for 20 minutes on the subject, it was apparent to me that the real Mr. Jefferson understood his hypocrisy.

    Later that day, I saw the woman who asked the question in the gift shop. I thanked her for her participation. Her response was interesting: she said she was a librarian in Manassas, VA, and the main point she learned that afternoon was that she needs to read more.

    My wife and I have never come to agreement on Truman dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. She remains staunchly opposed to it, while I thought President Truman made the right decision. My opinion is biased, as my father was a 17 YO Navy seaman training for the land invasion of Japan.

    In preparation for this invasion, the War Department placed a requisition for over 500,000 Purple Hearts. To put that number in perspective, the military continues to draw from that supply to this very day, 75 years later.

    From my discussions with those who lived through WWII, I am convinced that Truman would have been impeached had the atomic weapons not been used in favor of a land invasion of Japan that would have likely cost millions of Japanese and American lives. The sacrifices they endured for close to 5 years puts our current situation in a different light.

    Again, this is just my $.02.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    Just my opinion, but I don't like looking back into history

    Again, this is just my $.02.
    I agree to a point but I also don’t think it would be appropriate to have a Nathan Bedford Forrest University. No need to pretend that the past doesn’t exist but there is also no reason to celebrate or honor atrocious behavior from historical figures when we realize they were wrong.

    Regarding BYU these aren’t historical issues. Til 1978 the church banned people of color from receiving equal rights on Earth and in the afterlife.

    30 years ago they were performing electroshock therapy on the BYU campus to cure homosexuality by having gay men watch porn with electrodes attached to their testicles.

    5 years ago was the policy for children of gay parents that I mentioned above.

    Earlier this year they removed wording in the Honor Code against gay relationships on campus. Some closeted gay students went to the Honor Code office and were told they could hold hands, hug, kiss, etc. it was widely celebrated with dozens of students coming out of the closet as a result. Two weeks later the church put out a statement that nothing had actually changed and they could be punished.

    Obviously this is all very personal to me but I don’t like the idea of giving all religions a free pass to be crappy.


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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zags_Fanatic View Post
    I was born and raised mormon so I don't have much of a horse in the catholicism/jesuit race. The problem with living prophecy is how poorly those prophecies tend to age. The LDS church has officially disavowed Brigham's racism yet still considers him to be a modern prophet who had direct access to God and was his mouthpiece for all of humanity. Personally I don't see how they can have it both ways unless followers are of the opinion that God was super racist until 1978. It's great that they are moving forward and are trying to say the right things now but that racism still exists as a fundamental tenet of the Book of Mormon and they are repeating the same mistakes with the LGBTQ community today including some monumentally homophobic and un-Christlike "revelations" in the past 5 years.
    I gathered you were a former member. My point is all religions have indefensible positions and historical elements. You have first-hand experience with the Church's. I don't know what many other Zags have that license to follow you into Church-criticism and aggressively as you can.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Go Zags!!!

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