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Thread: Why BYU, not SMC is our biggest Rival

  1. #1

    Default Why BYU, not SMC is our biggest Rival

    Obviously both of these teams are formidable competition and have reason to consider us rivals. Over the last decade of having BYU in the WCC they haven't had their best seasons ever, but they have effectively done 2 things. The first, they have beaten some of our best teams in school history. The Second, they have gotten under our skin to the point where we loathe them. When you make 3rd party excuses like the refs after losses, its because you are too emotionally agonized by the opponent to see clearly.

    Right after BYU was announced to be joining the WCC they had their most talented team in history. They faced us as an 11 seed to their 3 seed. I'm sure we can all remember the spanking Jimmer gave us. It was impressive, and put the conference through a wake up call that BYU was good. Well, once they entered they had struggles. They still however beat us in our first ever conference matchup in 2012 when we were ranked #24th. They didn't beat us again until 2014 when we were ranked 25th. That sparked 3 straight Kennel victories for BYU, and these games are when the rivalry really started.

    The first Kennel Victory was when we were #3 in the country. It ended our 41 Game Home winning Streak. In 2016 they beat us again. We didn't have our greatest team, we were #25 when we played, and if you guys remember that game it was when one of their big men blocked Wiltjer in the lane to seal the win. The year after, 2017, I'm sure everyone remembers that game vividly. 29-0, 18-2 lead to start the game. They outscored us 10-0 in the final 2 minutes to kill what would have been a perfect season. This game was the final blow to seal BYU as our rival. 3 straight losses at home, which is one of the greatest basketball atmospheres in the country.

    We responded with 6 straight wins, including the win this season in the Kennel, but we were under prepared for the environment and moment of that game in Provo. Their fans were anticipating that game, it was their senior night, and they played out of their minds in a 13 point win. After this win we had all sorts of ref blaming, religion slander, 'dirty playing' excuses. I honestly don't think we would see that if we didn't care as much as we do about the BYU games. Were they physical and aggressive? Yes. Were they more physical and aggressive than any other team would be when playing a top 3 team in the country? No. Go watch Big Ten games if you don't believe me. The Kafusi brothers both weren't natural basketball players, they are both NFL players today, and it showed on the court. They made some overly agressive plays, but BYU doesn't have any like that on their roster at this time.

    Obviously SMC has beaten us in some big games too, including the WCC Championship game last year. I still however consider BYU the bigger rival over SMC. They have the bigger fanbase, they have beaten our best teams (They beat us when we were #1, #2, and #3), and they have gotten under our skin. I think the only thing keeping this from being a common thought here is BYU's lack of success in the WCC tournament.

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    I’ve been saying this for years. Well done
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    It goes without much discussion that my 3 favorite teams are:

    The Zags
    Whoever is playing BYU
    Whoever is playing Duke

    I have a lot of respect for SMC, and what they have accomplished.

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    Enmity isn't the same thing as rivalry
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    SMC did a bunch of that stuff well before BYU... not to mention SMC did it multiple times in the WCC tourney. BYU, for the most part has choked badly in the WCC tourney. Nothing BYU has done has matched up to Patty Mills, nor Delladova. Even their answer to Samhan was nothing more than a football player re-purposed for hoops but somehow thought he was still on the gridiron. As much as I hated Omar... the dude could ball.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    SMC did a bunch of that stuff well before BYU... not to mention SMC did it multiple times in the WCC tourney. BYU, for the most part has choked badly in the WCC tourney. Nothing BYU has done has matched up to Patty Mills, nor Delladova. Even their answer to Samhan was nothing more than a football player re-purposed for hoops but somehow thought he was still on the gridiron. As much as I hated Omar... the dude could ball.
    If you take out last year's WCC championship, which has to be one of the biggest fluke's in GU history, SMC is 1-10 in the last 11 games against the Zags. We've completely passed them by as far as talent and recruiting go. This may HAVE BEEN a rivalry, but on the court, it's basically gone. I would have to agree that BYU has taken that place, as they are far more talented and a bigger threat on the court.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzagit View Post
    If you take out last year's WCC championship, which has to be one of the biggest fluke's in GU history, SMC is 1-10 in the last 11 games against the Zags. We've completely passed them by as far as talent and recruiting go. This may HAVE BEEN a rivalry, but on the court, it's basically gone. I would have to agree that BYU has taken that place, as they are far more talented and a bigger threat on the court.
    BYU had their best overall talent in a long time this past season. It remains to be seen if they can sustain that. All of their middle age players will be gone. Haws, Childs, Toolson and Zeljas will be looking for mid management jobs next year and I don’t see comparable replacements on their roster or in their recruiting class. Next year they could fall back in the WCC pack.

    One solid year is not a trend.

    By the way, referring to the OP, I don’t remember anyone here disparaging religion. And the references that were made to dirty play were justified no matter what.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    BYU had their best overall talent in a long time this past season. It remains to be seen if they can sustain that. All of their middle age players will be gone. Haws, Childs, Toolson and Zeljas will be looking for mid management jobs next year and I don’t see comparable replacements on their roster or in their recruiting class. Next year they could fall back in the WCC pack.

    One solid year is not a trend.

    By the way, referring to the OP, I don’t remember anyone here disparaging religion. And the references that were made to dirty play were justified no matter what.
    You're right with the disparaging religion, now that I think of it that was actually in the Reddit game thread against BYU that a lot of Gonzaga fans made crude comments. That wasn't however here in this forum, so that can be forgotten.

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    BYU thought they were gonna open a big can of Woop Ass on the WCC. Hasn’t happened.

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    Na

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    It goes without much discussion that my 3 favorite teams are:

    The Zags
    Whoever is playing BYU
    Whoever is playing Duke

    I have a lot of respect for SMC, and what they have accomplished.
    Well said. I totally agree.

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    Sorry but a rivalry isn't just loathing a team. The two teams have to have some semblance of consistent competition. We are overwhelmingly leading the head-to-head record since joining the conference, and we outright own the WCC title race over BYU. At least SMC can claim some conference titles.

    You have to earn "rivalry," and BYU hasn't. After all the grandstanding and lightshows in their 20,000-seat stadium, they still have a lone sweet 16 banner from 2011, and you have to go back before the shot clock era to find their next S16. Since then it's all excuses and woulda-could-shouldas for why they either 1) didn't make the tournament, or 2) didn't perform when they did. We're in a difference class. If they earned any status, it's being really annoying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Go Zags!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post
    Sorry but a rivalry isn't just loathing a team. The two teams have to have some semblance of consistent competition. We are overwhelmingly leading the head-to-head record since joining the conference, and we outright own the WCC title race over BYU. At least SMC can claim some conference titles.

    You have to earn "rivalry," and BYU hasn't. After all the grandstanding and lightshows in their 20,000-seat stadium, they still have a lone sweet 16 banner from 2011, and you have to go back before the shot clock era to find their next S16. Since then it's all excuses and woulda-could-shouldas for why they either 1) didn't make the tournament, or 2) didn't perform when they did. We're in a difference class. If they earned any status, it's being really annoying.
    So who then is our rival
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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    So who then is our rival
    bigger picture, probably arizona or oregon in terms of recruiting and west coast supremacy...if zags keep playing uw every year, maybe that evolves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WallaWallaZag View Post
    bigger picture, probably arizona or oregon in terms of recruiting and west coast supremacy...if zags keep playing uw every year, maybe that evolves.
    Can you have a rivalry when you only play them once every couple years?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    So who then is our rival
    Not sure if the Zags have one since the Huskies have imploded (again).

    BTW, were the Washington Generals considered a rival of the Harlem Globetrotters?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post
    Sorry but a rivalry isn't just loathing a team. The two teams have to have some semblance of consistent competition. We are overwhelmingly leading the head-to-head record since joining the conference, and we outright own the WCC title race over BYU. At least SMC can claim some conference titles.

    You have to earn "rivalry," and BYU hasn't. After all the grandstanding and lightshows in their 20,000-seat stadium, they still have a lone sweet 16 banner from 2011, and you have to go back before the shot clock era to find their next S16. Since then it's all excuses and woulda-could-shouldas for why they either 1) didn't make the tournament, or 2) didn't perform when they did. We're in a difference class. If they earned any status, it's being really annoying.
    That’s actually a good point
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
    Not sure if the Zags have one since the Huskies have imploded (again).

    BTW, were the Washington Generals considered a rival of the Harlem Globetrotters?
    Technically speaking yes since they only played each other
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    When you make 3rd party excuses like the refs after losses, its because you are too emotionally agonized by the opponent to see clearly.
    disagree

    yes, you gotta overcome, but pretending zebra jive doesn't happen when it does happen makes it impossible to overcome; how do you overcome something if you don't even admit it exists? it's not excuses, it's facts

    home cooking happens (for the Zags too) for whatever myriad reasons. but re. Provo specifically, so does a lot of other crap. emotionally agonized would be to succumb and pretend it wasn't true, like a frail wimp afraid to call out the BS for what it is.

    No, got to go in there eyes wide open, knowing you're going to get screwed, so you can prepare and be prepared to overcome

    it's the same as playing at Cameron Indoor man, you know you're going to get hosed, but so what? You think Leonard Hamilton doesn't prepare his team for the inevitable BS calls when they visit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
    Not sure if the Zags have one since the Huskies have imploded (again).

    BTW, were the Washington Generals considered a rival of the Harlem Globetrotters?
    +1 BYU and SMC the closest thing. which is more? idk, each has a lot of work to do to make it a rivalry

    agree with the OP and all on the planet not from BYU re. the fact that BYU (fan base) gets under skin and that they have accomplished becoming the most annoying (fan base)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    By the way, referring to the OP, I don’t remember anyone here disparaging religion.
    Mark, from time to time, there have been outbreaks in game threads and in threads broadly discussing the WCC where posters did take shots at LDS, BYU missionaries, honor code violators, etc.

    We have users on the GUB who are members of the church of LDS. When someone spouts off with hurtful comments directed at "Mormons," our LDS users usually call them on it.




    As for the thread topic:

    I see SMC and BYU as rivals. GU's had good success against both of late. League rivalries thrive when things aren't as lopsided. Gonzaga, SMC, and BYU have been competing for the top spots in the WCC regularly.
    I get more fired up for the SMC & BYU games than I do for the Washington or Arizona games.



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    Yes a rival. Also the team that does things that are more than annoying, like sucker punching, flopping and tripping opponents. For those things I truly dislike them. I have really liked many of their players however that could really play great basketball and put out the intensity at a high level with class. It's unfortunate that the fan base is sophomoric throwing things on the floor, booing every call that doesn't go their way and so on. I wish they'd show some class. If the goal is to somehow elevate BYU as the Zag primary rival I think it is to somehow elevate their status. SMC is a better program with better fans IMO.
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    I for one am glad that BYU is in the conference. Without a doubt they provide two more games every season that I am going to be riveted to. As a fan base we anticipate these games more; experiencing more joy when we win, suffering more anguish when we lose; than almost any other conference foe. The season would be considerably more dull and our national profile definitely not as strong without them on our schedule.
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    Every superhero need a villain. Ours used to be Samhan and SMC. Until the forces of evil created the ultimate villain in depths of Mordor. Now St Mary's is Spiderman to our Superman. Sure there's a competitive rivalry, but we both battle on the side of truth and justice against our common enemy in Provo.

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    I think BYU, with its fan base and facilities, will end up being the better rival. Are they today, I’m not sure. I enjoy playing them more than SMC, certainly when the game is away.

    And yes, they are a huge addition to the conference. I actually like them, in the same way someone might like their uncle who is a bit crazy, but good to have around.

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