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Thread: Questions about next year’s team

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    Would take Petrusev back in heart beat if he is committed to lateral quickness improvement, anticipation for blocking shots and post defense. and on offense comitted to an outside jj,p shot. If he is committed is not 100% committed to working on and improving those then I wish him best of luck

    sneaky suspicious on some of those issues were tampered down die to lack of depth but he still needs to work on those areas and if he does I do think he has chance be lottery pick
    Agreed. Key word is commitment. And specifically a commitment to expend as much energy on the defensive end as he does on the offensive end.

    Funny thing is, I suspect there are players ready to go that will greatly benefit from his absence. Timme, Ballo, Watson and Zacharov will be a formidable front line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    I couldn't disagree with you MORE. I believe Petrusev helped this team in so many ways that you don't seem to be able to see. I don't think he will be back, but not for one single reason that you think he needs to change. I think he'll be playing professional ball someplace. Hopefully in the NBA.
    What is it we didn't see, Reborn?

    We saw a player that loved playing one end of the floor. The other end, not so much. The lack of lateral quickness was obvious on pick and roll plays and especially when he got switched on smaller players. Blocking shots was not a priority. We saw a complete reluctance to shooting anything outside of eight feet.

    In addition, he put the brakes on fast breaks by not getting the outlet pass in the guard's hands quickly. The difference between he and Tillie in that regard was glaring. He hurt himself on getting foul calls because EVERY play he threw up his hands looking for a foul. I can't count how many times Few was waving him back on defense while he was engaging the refs. He still shot more free throws than any zag but he could have done way better. His passing out of the double team was mediocre at best, mainly because he wanted to score more than anything else.

    Filip has a long ways to go to be a complete player. He needs to go to work. I think he's capable of so much more.

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    For the Insiders, is there any chance we lose Kispert? He had somewhat of an ominous post on Instagram tonight with a picture of himself and the caption was “Chapter 3”. In the comments, people were asking if it meant AAU, College, then Pro? Maybe I’m a little scared still from ZN leaving too early but really hope he doesn’t go!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tenniszag View Post
    For the Insiders, is there any chance we lose Kispert? He had somewhat of an ominous post on Instagram tonight with a picture of himself and the caption was “Chapter 3”. In the comments, people were asking if it meant AAU, College, then Pro? Maybe I’m a little scared still from ZN leaving too early but really hope he doesn’t go!
    I was wondering the same thing after seeing the post on Instagram. Some interpreted it as a return and some that he is off to the NBA.

    Hoping he comes back next year, I think he is the difference between a clear #1 favorite or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    What is it we didn't see, Reborn?

    We saw a player that loved playing one end of the floor. The other end, not so much. The lack of lateral quickness was obvious on pick and roll plays and especially when he got switched on smaller players. Blocking shots was not a priority. We saw a complete reluctance to shooting anything outside of eight feet.

    In addition, he put the brakes on fast breaks by not getting the outlet pass in the guard's hands quickly. The difference between he and Tillie in that regard was glaring. He hurt himself on getting foul calls because EVERY play he threw up his hands looking for a foul. I can't count how many times Few was waving him back on defense while he was engaging the refs. He still shot more free throws than any zag but he could have done way better. His passing out of the double team was mediocre at best, mainly because he wanted to score more than anything else.

    Filip has a long ways to go to be a complete player. He needs to go to work. I think he's capable of so much more.
    What you seem to NOT see to me is the Player of the Year in the WCC and a finalist for the Wooden Award and Kareen Jabar award. I just don't get it. I'm sure every team in the country would love to have him. He's a great scorer. A great low post player who most of the time is unstoppable. He's a very good rebounder. The best on the team by far. That right there proves how tough he is. The other fact of toughness is how much he gets beat up while playing offense. Every single low post player who has been real good at one point had to make an adjustment when teams started double teaming them. It took time for Every one of them to become a good passer out of a double team. I have seen a ton of progress in this area in the last few games and in his last game he led the team in assists and only shot 5 times, making 4 of them.

    Like every Zag Patrusev played a role. When the team needed him to score he did. And lately they have needed him to pass more and has freed up our guards to score more, thus Ayayi being the MVP in the last two games and MVP for the tourney. I don't think you see how tough Petrusev is, and I don't think you know how difficult for ANY low post player to average 18 points per game. Obviously you don't like his attitude. It doesn't bother me at all. He gets the heck beat out of him every game, and when he complains about a foul you get pissed. Take his place for a game and see how tough it is in the low post. I don't think you have any idea at all. I WILL tell you one thing that I don't think you understand, this team would have finishe 4th, 5th or 6th place in our conference if we did not have Petrusev this year. I don't think you see that either. There's more, but my fingers are getting tired.

    Go Zags!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    What you seem to NOT see to me is the Player of the Year in the WCC and a finalist for the Wooden Award and Kareen Jabar award. I just don't get it. I'm sure every team in the country would love to have him. He's a great scorer. A great low post player who most of the time is unstoppable. He's a very good rebounder. The best on the team by far. That right there proves how tough he is. The other fact of toughness is how much he gets beat up while playing offense. Every single low post player who has been real good at one point had to make an adjustment when teams started double teaming them. It took time for Every one of them to become a good passer out of a double team. I have seen a ton of progress in this area in the last few games and in his last game he led the team in assists and only shot 5 times, making 4 of them.

    Like every Zag Patrusev played a role. When the team needed him to score he did. And lately they have needed him to pass more and has freed up our guards to score more, thus Ayayi being the MVP in the last two games and MVP for the tourney. I don't think you see how tough Petrusev is, and I don't think you know how difficult for ANY low post player to average 18 points per game. Obviously you don't like his attitude. It doesn't bother me at all. He gets the heck beat out of him every game, and when he complains about a foul you get pissed. Take his place for a game and see how tough it is in the low post. I don't think you have any idea at all. I WILL tell you one thing that I don't think you understand, this team would have finishe 4th, 5th or 6th place in our conference if we did not have Petrusev this year. I don't think you see that either. There's more, but my fingers are getting tired.

    Go Zags!!!
    Did you notice you didn’t speak of his defense one time? I did. He’s a scorer. Period.

    The accolades are nice but those are nearly all based on offensive statistics every year.

    You don’t know me or my background. Suggesting I don’t know what toughness is or have never experienced it is complete guesswork on your part.

    He is not a “very good” rebounder. He rarely rebounds out of his area. If I see him box out when he’s on the weak side it will be a first. His rebound numbers are adequate, not “very good”. Ayayiq is the best rebounder on the team.

    I disagree that they would have finished as poorly as you think in the WCC without Petrusev. Timme would have slotted in just fine and the rest of the team would have gotten more scoring opportunities. They may have lost a couple more while Drew figured it out and because of depth issues but it wouldn’t have been a drastic fall off.

    Once again, pointing out areas in need of improvement shouldn’t cause anybody to be upset. I enjoy watching all the Zags. Trying to convince me that I need to ignore any and all deficiencies because all Zags are the best ever is a non starter for me.

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    Reborn, the only credentials you mention are a (1) player of the year award in the WCC, and (2) finalist for the Kareen Jabar award. Those awards, both of them, are only awarded in comparison to others. Markburn points out very specific and glaring deficiencies in his game that I know you see too. You're not blind. Just because he happens to win an award doesn't make him ready for a level that would definitely exploit him for those deficiencies. The role he plays and the progress he has shown, to date, isn't enough for the NBA. Just my opinion obviously.

    And look, we're obviously talking about great a great player here. I will celebrate his return. But When you talk about the next level, a WCC award and finalist for another award don't mean much.
    Krozman
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  8. #33
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    So a bit of a hijack of the thread I suppose. FWIW I think Petro was a very big part of our success this year, very big. That said, I think Timme will be an even better post player next year (which is the topic of the thread — next year!). What we haven’t heard much about lately is how Omar is doing? I wonder what kind of minutes he will play and what kind of contributions he will make.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenniszag View Post
    For the Insiders, is there any chance we lose Kispert? He had somewhat of an ominous post on Instagram tonight with a picture of himself and the caption was “Chapter 3”. In the comments, people were asking if it meant AAU, College, then Pro? Maybe I’m a little scared still from ZN leaving too early but really hope he doesn’t go!
    All I know is what his "Friends of Hoops" AAU Coach (the late Jim Marsh) told Roy Williams during his recruitment. I was driving Jim around (he had Parkinson's and wasn't driving) when his phone rang, and it was Roy Williams ... calling asking about Corey Kispert. Jim's "kid's" over the years included Martell Webster, Jon Brockman, Jamal Crawford, Isaiah Thomas, Spencer Hawes, Zach LaVine, "Corey Kispert", and a host of others. BTW (sidebar) I was able to watch most of those guys grow up ... as Jim's Sonic's seats (Row 1 on the aisle) were one row ahead of mine (Row 2 on the aisle). That's how I got to know Jim ..... then I spent about 15 years on his Board of Directors for "Washington State Mentors".

    So Jim's phone rang (while we were in the car) and it was Roy Williams calling about Corey Kispert. I CLEARLY remember what Jim said ....
    "I'll tell you the same thing I told Tony when he was asking me about Joe Harris" (also one of Marsh's kids). "I said he will be the hardest worker on your team, he's fundamentally sound, you will have him for 4 years, he will be All Conference at least 2 of those 4 years and by the time he is done he will be on somebody's All American team"

    According to Jim, we'll have Corey for his Senior year.

    So we have that going for us, which is nice.

    Link to an earlier "Jim Marsh" post (timeframe was during Corey Kispert's recruitment)
    http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/...end-in-Seattle
    Last edited by GoZags; 03-14-2020 at 07:34 AM.

    "To be continued ....."
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  10. #35
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    Default No Ayayi. Filip comes back ... takes Oumar's minutes per Torvik's '21 Zag stat sheet

    Gives us something to discuss

    http://barttorvik.com/rosters21.php?t=Gonzaga
    Last edited by GoZags; 03-14-2020 at 10:02 AM.

    "To be continued ....."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    Once again, pointing out areas in need of improvement shouldn’t cause anybody to be upset. I enjoy watching all the Zags. Trying to convince me that I need to ignore any and all deficiencies because all Zags are the best ever is a non starter for me.
    First I'm not upset with you at all. I just disagree with what you think about Petrusev. I just pointed out why I disagree. Maybe you're upset with my feedback to you. Second I wasn't trying to convince you to ignore anything. What I was responding to was Hoopaholic saying that he would not want Petrusev back next year unless he made the changes that he felt he needed to make. That's what I felt was so weird. What if you were a coach and had a really good player like Petrusev on your team, and he made All Conference, and in fact was voted MVP of the conference, and you told him that if he didn't improve on those things you listed that you didn't want him back. Wouldn't many people think that that was weird.

    I did check the stats for rebounding. Ayayi averaged 6.3 rebounds per game and Petrusev 7.9 or let's say 8. I think if I asked a 4th grader which player was the better rebounder that most would say Petrusev. I'm not sure why you would pick Ayayi based on facts.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by krozman View Post
    Reborn, the only credentials you mention are a (1) player of the year award in the WCC, and (2) finalist for the Kareen Jabar award. Those awards, both of them, are only awarded in comparison to others. Markburn points out very specific and glaring deficiencies in his game that I know you see too. You're not blind. Just because he happens to win an award doesn't make him ready for a level that would definitely exploit him for those deficiencies. The role he plays and the progress he has shown, to date, isn't enough for the NBA. Just my opinion obviously.

    And look, we're obviously talking about great a great player here. I will celebrate his return. But When you talk about the next level, a WCC award and finalist for another award don't mean much.
    Who knows what will happen to Petro regarding the NBA. Is there a team that would take him because he is so good on offense, and because he's so young. I think we need to remember that he's only 20 years old. How many Sophomore centers has Gonzaga had that are as good as Petro was this year? Maybe there are NBA people who see Petro as a young player whom they may be able to develop. I have read here on several posts that the NBA is actually better than college coaches in developing players. I agree that Petrusev needs to improve on his defense and outside shooting, but I'd take him back in a minute if I was Mark Few. As I told Markburn I was responding to Hoopaholic saying he'd not want Petrusev back next year unless he changed. There have been a lot of negative posts this year aimed at Petrusev, and I just don't think they're fair.

    AND I'm VERY surprised that you don't believe that a player has to be a damn good basketball player to get the MVP of their conference, but even more to be a finalist in the John Wooden award.

    Go Zags!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
    Gives us something to discuss

    http://barttorvik.com/rosters21.php?t=Gonzaga
    Projections assume Petro comes back and Ayayi leaves. I think it will be the other way around.

    Means Kispert and Timme will likely pace the team in scoring, with either one being the leading scorer. I think Suggs is capable of more than 11 ppg and Ballo will be around 10 ppg 7 rpg 2 bpg off the bench.

    All guesses, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
    Gives us something to discuss

    http://barttorvik.com/rosters21.php?t=Gonzaga
    Warmups don't count, but if they did Zacharov is being overlooked big time. Kid made some incredible athletic moves in the layup line. I hope he gets his chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagsfanforlife View Post
    The so long kennel til next year doesn't support your point that he is gone..

    If he is seeing the kennel next year it would imply that he is staying.. would it not?
    I took the lol to intone sarcasm. That's what I took from the responses too. (This was way before the tournament was cancelled.)

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    Peteu didnt care for KC. Thought they didnt show up much besides big games.
    Love the zags for life

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    Warmups don't count, but if they did Zacharov is being overlooked big time. Kid made some incredible athletic moves in the layup line. I hope he gets his chance.
    I think he will play some this year, but I expect the big jump junior season. He looks like he has all the athletic ability, just needs time to get up to game speed. I also cant wait to see how his body develops. He has tree trucks for legs, I think he could fill out to 250 and still be nimble but strong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    First I'm not upset with you at all. I just disagree with what you think about Petrusev. I just pointed out why I disagree. Maybe you're upset with my feedback to you. Second I wasn't trying to convince you to ignore anything. What I was responding to was Hoopaholic saying that he would not want Petrusev back next year unless he made the changes that he felt he needed to make. That's what I felt was so weird. What if you were a coach and had a really good player like Petrusev on your team, and he made All Conference, and in fact was voted MVP of the conference, and you told him that if he didn't improve on those things you listed that you didn't want him back. Wouldn't many people think that that was weird.

    I did check the stats for rebounding. Ayayi averaged 6.3 rebounds per game and Petrusev 7.9 or let's say 8. I think if I asked a 4th grader which player was the better rebounder that most would say Petrusev. I'm not sure why you would pick Ayayi based on facts.
    The coaching staff clearly doesn’t trust him too much as he didn’t play down the stretch against BYU or San Francisco. Don’t cite counting stats like rebounds per game and use it to say who the best rebounder is. That is not productive analysis especially in relation to more thought provoking discussion like rebounding outside your area. Petrusev has no shot at the NBA because he’s such a negative defensively. You can’t play in the league unless you can hold your own defensively or you’re a transcendent offensive player. If you’re a role player and a zero on defense you pretty much have to shoot 40% from 3 and even that might not be good enough. The criticism for Petrusev comes from those who look beyond counting stats and awards given for being the top scorer on the best team. Gonzaga has better players to replace him and both parties will be better off if he plays professionally overseas next year.

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    thanks for the couch session tyra

    team is stacked but you never know what might happen between now and then. this season the perfect example of that.

    have to look back sometimes to see forward clearly. like GoZags pointed out, Anton goes down, Tillie goes down twice, and just like that, it's scrambling time, Petro is in the floor much more than probably penciled in, Timme too, and all warts cannot be hidden. there were no other options so those guys had to step up...right then and there. No offseason to work on the warts, just go out and overcome them while everyone gets to see them exposed.

    I thought they handled it great and next year's team, whoever it is, can take that 'do whatever it takes to overcome' attitude and build on it, that dynamic of team continuity

    so for next year, I like the depth we all see but we'll have to see who is here and healthy obviously

    anyway, re. Petro, hope he comes back. his D improved, I just rewatched the SMC game (you can on espn btw), warts and all, but we all see the areas of improvement he could work on. for me, biggest add would be FT shooting so he can be on the floor late in games on O, not to diminish what's been pointed out already about defensive improvements. I remember him hitting 3s too, I think he can shoot it, needs the confidence tho, but Few had to do what he had to do with the 7 players available, 6 at times, Petro living on the block, etc.

    next year appears to have more options, at this time, and the biggest difference imo

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    Defense in the nba??? That is so last decade. There is very little defense these days because of the way in which games are now officiated. Basically, it’s nearly impossible to stop penetration without being whistled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsObserver View Post
    Defense in the nba??? That is so last decade. There is very little defense these days because of the way in which games are now officiated. Basically, it’s nearly impossible to stop penetration without being whistled.
    I see this thought pretty often. I will agree the League has made a conscious effort to create freedom of movement and to boost offensive numbers. Still, at the end of the season, the teams in the conference championships and the Finals have at least two of the best one on one defenders in the league and a defensive scheme that normally puts them in the top several clubs from an analytical standpoint.

    It's fashionable to say no defense is played in the NBA, but I disagree completely.

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    It seems to me that he will get pushed around by grown men in the NBA. He will take hardly any shots that are on balance, or from a spot he likes on the floor, or without a little tap on the arm. He probably won’t really get the ball much in the post for that matter. If he is frustrated by no-calls or not getting the ball when he is open in college, it will be awful for him in the NBA early on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    I see this thought pretty often. I will agree the League has made a conscious effort to create freedom of movement and to boost offensive numbers. Still, at the end of the season, the teams in the conference championships and the Finals have at least two of the best one on one defenders in the league and a defensive scheme that normally puts them in the top several clubs from an analytical standpoint.

    It's fashionable to say no defense is played in the NBA, but I disagree completely.
    It’s more than just fashionable. The numbers back it up. I’ve watched the NBA for three full decades now. It’s an entirely different animal now than it was even 10 years ago. That’s not to say there isn’t any defense, just that it’s very difficult given the officiating, and because of that, it’s relative value is far less than it once was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    I couldn't disagree with you MORE. I believe Petrusev helped this team in so many ways that you don't seem to be able to see. I don't think he will be back, but not for one single reason that you think he needs to change. I think he'll be playing professional ball someplace. Hopefully in the NBA.
    First and foremost I have never said he did not help the team so not sure where you are getting this he was exceptional on the offensive side of the court

    Secondly not sure what “I would take him back in a heartbeat” means to you to me it means he would be an exceptional addition to a team game but had some arrears for improvement

    Thirdly I never said the core areas need to change but feel free to reread. It states areas to improve and work on
    Are you saying his defense does not need improvement
    Are you saying his shot blocking does not need improvement
    Are you saying his outside shot does not need improving
    Are you saying his lateral quickness needs no improvement

    I want players who want to continue to improve and not accept status quo. If an individual believes he is at his ceiling and cannot improve with the coaches team and competition. Then time to move to next level imo
    Basketball...The Toy Department of Life

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    First and foremost I have never said he did not help the team so not sure where you are getting this he was exceptional on the offensive side of the court

    Secondly not sure what “I would take him back in a heartbeat” means to you to me it means he would be an exceptional addition to a team game but had some arrears for improvement

    Thirdly I never said the core areas need to change but feel free to reread. It states areas to improve and work on
    Are you saying his defense does not need improvement
    Are you saying his shot blocking does not need improvement
    Are you saying his outside shot does not need improving
    Are you saying his lateral quickness needs no improvement

    I want players who want to continue to improve and not accept status quo. If an individual believes he is at his ceiling and cannot improve with the coaches team and competition. Then time to move to next level imo
    As I've said. My criticism was not about his need to improve in certain areas. My criticism came from saying you would not take him back UNLESS he

    As I've said several times now, no coach would say that to him....To say that his return was conditional on ANYTHING to me is not only bad (poor communication) but it's rude.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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