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Thread: BYU moves into top ten in Kenpom rankings.

  1. #26
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    The YouTube proves it, they are just unlikable.

    Really they are going to get down and get frustrated then revert to the physical play or someone else is going to get tired of the crap and not take it anymore. Either way someone is going to get hurt and they will be the cause of it.

  2. #27
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    I want teams in the WCC to do well for the good of the conference but I can’t root for BYU at all. The cheap shot on Olynyk a few years ago and the one on Petrusev are just 2 examples of bush league that are enough for me.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    I'd bet than injury rates are higher in games with bigger and more physical teams (who play all-out but no cheap shots) than for teams with a small guard or a 4-guard line and a plaer who does Haws-style trickery.

    I'm curious if data exists either way.

    It's possible to say that you don't like BYU, or their style, and you root against them, without saying that their lineup and type of play this year is especially dangerous relative to games VS the caliber of teams they are now ranked among.
    I'd take this bet. In basketball or football I was never injured by a bigger player. I broke my leg several times, sprained a knee, broke bones in both hands, broke an arm, tore a ligament in my knee, and those are the injuries off the top of my head.

    I know this is anecdotal, but every one of those injuries resulted in plays against smaller guys who think undercutting you, or hitting you in the knees is the only way they can make up for their lack of size. Additionally, the smaller players are more likely to be involved in high velocity collisions. I'd bet that most injuries in basketball are related to landing. It doesn't really matter how big the person's foot is that you land on wrong, or how big that person is that undercuts you as you go up for a rebound. And little guys are more likely to be taught to be aggressive in these situations because, you know, they are small and can't hurt anyone (which is false).

    I've also seen this as a coach. Sure a big kid has greater potential to hurt a smaller kid, but almost all the major issues I've dealt with involved a small guy doing something stupid (like Haws, just imagine if Karnowski hit someone in the back like that - Flagrant 2).

  4. #29
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    I remember Elias Harris getting called for a technical foul when he blocked out in an unorthodox way by turning into a bigger Purdue guy and putting his forearm into his chest. The guy flopped. I’m pretty sure this affected the outcome of the game. But it was called all the same. If Harris was bigger he wouldn’t have felt the need to box out in that way. If he was off with his arm he could have gotten it up into the neck or chin and actually hurt the guy.

    All that to say, I buy the argument that smaller guys can injure bigger ones (and also to say that the no-call on Haws was bologna).
    Last edited by JPtheBeasta; 03-05-2020 at 09:54 AM. Reason: Elias Harris

  5. #30
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    I agree that the cheap shots from BYU are uniquely bad, and that it is not a matter of being "tough." We respect tough opponents, ask anyone about Delly and the respect he got around here. Delly would eat guys' lunch with toughness (including BYU).

    But having said all that, we better respect them in terms of beating us. We hit a peak against SMC on the road, and we've played well in Vegas before. But right now, I don't see a lot of separation between GU and BYU. Most of their losses were pre-Childs, so I think that artificially depresses their ranking.

    If they're in the championship (not a given w/ SMC), I think it's near a 50-50 game.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  6. #31
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    I'm not going to ignore the 92-69 beat down in Spokane. Would BYU make up 24 points with Childs playing in Spokane? Maybe. Maybe not.

    GU played fast in both matchups. Playing fast is not an excuse for self inflicted errors and turnovers. GU can beat BYU by playing fast without the errors and turnovers as displayed in Spokane. The difference from both matchups wasn't just Childs, but the slap happy, flailing arms of BYU. I'll say it until I'm blue in the face. Practice should begin with players dribbling through a gauntlet of slaps and tugs similar to the football drill. From here on out it is all about being strong with the basketball and that is against EVERYBODY, not just BYU.
    Last edited by MickMick; 03-05-2020 at 10:47 AM.
    I miss Mike Hart

  7. #32
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    I tend to agree. I would also send double teams to the post on Petrusev from every angle I can think of. I assume they do something of this nature in practice already but it is frustrating seeing them seemingly being caught unawares by it.

  8. #33
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    Besides the fact that the team is unlikable, BYU as school and the way they view and treat their LGBTQ+ community make me wish them to lose every game they ever play.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    I remember Elias Harris getting called for a technical foul when he blocked out in an unorthodox way by turning into a bigger Purdue guy and putting his forearm into his chest. The guy flopped. I’m pretty sure this affected the outcome of the game. But it was called all the same. If Harris was bigger he wouldn’t have felt the need to box out in that way. If he was off with his arm he could have gotten it up into the neck or chin and actually hurt the guy.

    All that to say, I buy the argument that smaller guys can injure bigger ones (and also to say that the no-call on Haws was bologna).

    Harris was a frosh and I think the game to which you are referring was against Wake Forest. In that game Harris was on offence and their post player (Chase McFarland) kept bumping Harris and out of frustration, Harris hit him with an elbow to the chest. It was reviewed for several minutes and the officials ejected him from the game. McFarland was just agitating Harris for most of the game and it came to a head and Harris reacted, was caught and went to the locker room. It was clear from my point, that Harris intentionally threw the elbow. Was it a cheap shot? Yes but Harris had enough...if he had been a senior, that elbow would never have been thrown...Harris would just take it because he would have had three years of experience behind him and would have known that it is almost always the second action that get's caught...

    Really not sure that Haws pushed Filip with all his strength as he is only 170lbs and Filip is 235lbs and I think the push just caught Filip off balance, which IMO was the reason he went down. I remember looking at Few and he was not irate...should it have been an intentional foul? Yes, it was not a normal basketball play and should have been a Flagrant 1...two free throws and the ball...IMO

  10. #35
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    I saw the Harris incident the same way you did, Bogo.
    This post is for March Madness seeding purposes only.

  11. #36
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    It turned out McFarland had quite a reputation for baiting players and cheap shots. He was infamously known as a “master baiter”.
    Birddog

    Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgadfly View Post
    I'd take this bet. In basketball or football I was never injured by a bigger player. I broke my leg several times, sprained a knee, broke bones in both hands, broke an arm, tore a ligament in my knee, and those are the injuries off the top of my head.

    I know this is anecdotal, but every one of those injuries resulted in plays against smaller guys who think undercutting you, or hitting you in the knees is the only way they can make up for their lack of size. Additionally, the smaller players are more likely to be involved in high velocity collisions. I'd bet that most injuries in basketball are related to landing. It doesn't really matter how big the person's foot is that you land on wrong, or how big that person is that undercuts you as you go up for a rebound. And little guys are more likely to be taught to be aggressive in these situations because, you know, they are small and can't hurt anyone (which is false).

    I've also seen this as a coach. Sure a big kid has greater potential to hurt a smaller kid, but almost all the major issues I've dealt with involved a small guy doing something stupid (like Haws, just imagine if Karnowski hit someone in the back like that - Flagrant 2).
    I hadn't thought about the phenomena of smaller players (basically SG and PGs) playing extra dirty or dangerous to compensate for a size difference. Thanks for pointing out that possibility.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    I remember Elias Harris getting called for a technical foul when he blocked out in an unorthodox way by turning into a bigger Purdue guy and putting his forearm into his chest. The guy flopped. I’m pretty sure this affected the outcome of the game. But it was called all the same. If Harris was bigger he wouldn’t have felt the need to box out in that way. If he was off with his arm he could have gotten it up into the neck or chin and actually hurt the guy.

    All that to say, I buy the argument that smaller guys can injure bigger ones (and also to say that the no-call on Haws was bologna).
    Gonzaga hasn't played Purdue since a decade before Elias Harris was on the team. Bogo's summary sounds describes an actual event. Mcfarland was awarded 5! free throws!

    https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...meId=293392250

    Nobody ever argued that smaller guys (even much smaller) can't injure bigger ones.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    Gonzaga hasn't played Purdue since a decade before Elias Harris was on the team. Bogo's summary sounds describes an actual event. Mcfarland was awarded 5! free throws!

    https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...meId=293392250

    Nobody ever argued that smaller guys (even much smaller) can't injure bigger ones.
    It was an actual event. I’m sure many persons here remember that play. I had forgotten, but Harris was ejected. I had the wrong team and it was Wake Forest. Bad recollection on my part. Jerky text on your part. Have a nice day.

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