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Thread: ESPN WCC article.

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    The WCC is getting stronger year over year.

    It's been better than the Mountain West 3 of the last 5 seasons, including 2018-19 and 2019-20.
    "My golf is woeful, but I will never surrender."--Bing Crosby

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    Would three NCAA tournament bids make the WCC a college basketball power conference?
    Answer: No.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hooter73 View Post
    Answer: No.
    Three ranked teams could, and it wasn't that far off this year.

    If all 3 teams win a first round game, it's even better
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooter73 View Post
    Answer: No.
    Agree. We’ve had three before a few different times and it did nothing. We need it consistently year in and year out and for all the teams to go far. Don’t see it happening anytime soon
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    There is a lot more that goes into being a power conference than just having a single year where three teams appear to be headed to the NCAA tournament.

    Facilities for one...…..

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    Facilities and bids. Then recruits will follow. A friend of mine told me he thinks the next move the WCC needs make is to require the facility poor programs to play at least two home WCC games (ie games against GU, BYU, SMC) per year at Oracle (SMC), Chase (USF), Staples (LMU/Pepp), Moda (Portland). He thinks this will create a Big East vibe and hype within the alumni base to attend the Big Game at the marquee local arena. I like it.

    If these schools can draw 15,000 against GU id imagine they bring in more $$ money even after the split.

    SMC is a campus with space for a new arena. The fact that they can't get a big donor to give them some cash for an arena is really quite baffling.

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    If SMC can't afford to improve their on-campus facility, what makes one think they could afford to rent out Oracle ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RenoZag View Post
    If SMC can't afford to improve their on-campus facility, what makes one think they could afford to rent out Oracle ?
    Buuuurnnnnn!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RenoZag View Post
    If SMC can't afford to improve their on-campus facility, what makes one think they could afford to rent out Oracle ?
    There’s only one school that in the WCC that can draw 15,000 for the Zags, and we saw that last Saturday night.

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    From the article:
    "The lack of competition over the past decade led Gonzaga to mull a move to the Mountain West two years ago. The WCC made some concessions by shortening the conference schedule from a true round-robin of 18 games to 16 games in which the top teams would play the weakest teams only once per season. This allowed the likes of Gonzaga, Saint Mary's and BYU to have a better in-conference SOS, but also replace those two abandoned conference games with stronger nonconference opponents."

    Unfortunately in GU's case we have not added stronger non-conf opponents than we did before. This year, Detroit Mercy and Texas Southern look like the 2 games we exchanged for a 2nd game vs Portland etc... Last year it was CSU Bakersfield and Souther Alabama. Missed opportunity IMO to schedule other mid-majors in stead of low majors.

    Maybe next year?

    ZZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB4 View Post
    Facilities and bids. Then recruits will follow. A friend of mine told me he thinks the next move the WCC needs make is to require the facility poor programs to play at least two home WCC games (ie games against GU, BYU, SMC) per year at Oracle (SMC), Chase (USF), Staples (LMU/Pepp), Moda (Portland). He thinks this will create a Big East vibe and hype within the alumni base to attend the Big Game at the marquee local arena. I like it.

    SMC is a campus with space for a new arena. The fact that they can't get a big donor to give them some cash for an arena is really quite baffling.
    ummmm... have you ever been to our campus? There is no room to be found. Not to mention absolutely no parking. Its the smallest by acreage in the conference and completely land-locked. That said, yes, I wish we could find the $50M or so to build a new facility, but it hasn't happened yet and probably won't in our lifetime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagzilla View Post
    From the article:
    "The lack of competition over the past decade led Gonzaga to mull a move to the Mountain West two years ago. The WCC made some concessions by shortening the conference schedule from a true round-robin of 18 games to 16 games in which the top teams would play the weakest teams only once per season. This allowed the likes of Gonzaga, Saint Mary's and BYU to have a better in-conference SOS, but also replace those two abandoned conference games with stronger nonconference opponents."

    Unfortunately in GU's case we have not added stronger non-conf opponents than we did before. This year, Detroit Mercy and Texas Southern look like the 2 games we exchanged for a 2nd game vs Portland etc... Last year it was CSU Bakersfield and Souther Alabama. Missed opportunity IMO to schedule other mid-majors in stead of low majors.

    Maybe next year?

    ZZ
    I'm not a season ticket holder, but I thought we had the right mix of tough games, and developmental/cupcake games. With 9 new players on the team this year, OOC strength of schedule was not the biggest priority IMO.

    Unfortunately, the only power conference opponent we had that has improved in 2020 is Texas A&M. UNC, Washington, and Arizona have underperformed since December. Wasn't UW ranked when we played them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gaels87 View Post
    ummmm... have you ever been to our campus? There is no room to be found. Not to mention absolutely no parking. Its the smallest by acreage in the conference and completely land-locked. That said, yes, I wish we could find the $50M or so to build a new facility, but it hasn't happened yet and probably won't in our lifetime.
    Even if the money were found, I have little doubt environmental restrictions would delay construction, and increase the eventual cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gaels87 View Post
    ummmm... have you ever been to our campus? There is no room to be found. Not to mention absolutely no parking. Its the smallest by acreage in the conference and completely land-locked. That said, yes, I wish we could find the $50M or so to build a new facility, but it hasn't happened yet and probably won't in our lifetime.
    Yes many times. You have a massive rugby and rec soccer field. The tennis courts could be relocated. The softball filed is a sorry sight and could be available real estate. The existing gymnasium could be torn down and/or expanded. Parking structures can be built nearby.

    Money is the answer. The question is who has it? SMC has a lot of wealthy alumni and neighbors. Perhaps your school's benefactor department needs to do a better job.

    I'm looking at your school's alumni list on Wikipedia. I see the former owner of the Oakland athletics and real estate developer (deceased) went to SMC. The former owner and convicted felon of the San Jose Sharks is an alumni and presumably has a lot of money in ill-gotten gains that he might want to consider paying to the Catholic Church before he meets his maker. The former global chair of PwC and former Wells Fargo board member and university trustee is an alumni. There's a CFO from Microsoft and early Internet entrepreneurs.

    Many of these people are merely $100 million men, but maybe start with them to see if you can get to the real money.

    I don't know. Gonzaga is a school in Spokane that was able to obtain donations when it was just a baby basketball school. There's a lot more money in your neck of the woods than in Eastern Washington. And SMC is not a baby basketball school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    Even if the money were found, I have little doubt environmental restrictions would delay construction, and increase the eventual cost.
    Tex: I'm sure you don't mean to suggest that schools like GU are smarter than their California brethren (who may have concerns about their environment) because Washingtonians see fit to build on cheap landfilled sites, to ignore the impacts of altered surface water run-off, to design cheap HVAC systems that permit the introduction and spread of Legionnaire's Disease and other air-borne contaminants, to dump and bury their toxic demolition and construction debris on-site, and to take whatever other environmental shortcuts they can get away with in order to achieve short-term construction savings. Do you?
    SLOZag
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB4 View Post
    Yes many times. You have a massive rugby and rec soccer field. The tennis courts could be relocated. The softball filed is a sorry sight and could be available real estate. The existing gymnasium could be torn down and/or expanded. Parking structures can be built nearby.

    Money is the answer. The question is who has it? SMC has a lot of wealthy alumni and neighbors. Perhaps your school's benefactor department needs to do a better job.

    I'm looking at your school's alumni list on Wikipedia. I see the former owner of the Oakland athletics and real estate developer (deceased) went to SMC. The former owner and convicted felon of the San Jose Sharks is an alumni and presumably has a lot of money in ill-gotten gains that he might want to consider paying to the Catholic Church before he meets his maker. The former global chair of PwC and former Wells Fargo board member and university trustee is an alumni. There's a CFO from Microsoft and early Internet entrepreneurs.

    Many of these people are merely $100 million men, but maybe start with them to see if you can get to the real money.

    I don't know. Gonzaga is a school in Spokane that was able to obtain donations when it was just a baby basketball school. There's a lot more money in your neck of the woods than in Eastern Washington. And SMC is not a baby basketball school.
    As I recall, Mckeon is not currently located next to parking. If they were going to improve facilities, that rugby area or the field next to it would make more sense. It’s next to existing parking. McKeon could then be used as a rec center for students.

    Not that any of us are opening our wallets to fund this.

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    We sent three teams in 2011-12. Did that make it a power conference? No, but it is nice to see a little recognition that this is a good league and has a chance to send three teams to the dance. The author seems to blow by the fact that we've done it before. The stars have to align somewhat, but we can do it. Santa Clara, USF, and Pacific all at times seemed like they had a chance to make the NIT, though only Pacific remains alive in that regard, and I remain doubtful on that for now.

    Like the off-campus arena idea as a thought experiment, although it has happened in the past (SCU played North Carolina once at Oracle, Kansas once at then-HP Pavillon in the early 2000s) and even this year- USF played Princeton at Chase Center, BYU played UNLV at the Jazz Arena, SMC played Fresno State at the Kings Arena (not super local, still) and there's been a few more over the past few years. More success- across the league- should beget more eyeballs and interest, and hopefully, more attendance and a more financially solvent way to play more games like that. The more we can be like the Big East, the better, as far as I can tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCU View Post
    We sent three teams in 2011-12. Did that make it a power conference? No, but it is nice to see a little recognition that this is a good league and has a chance to send three teams to the dance. The author seems to blow by the fact that we've done it before. The stars have to align somewhat, but we can do it. Santa Clara, USF, and Pacific all at times seemed like they had a chance to make the NIT, though only Pacific remains alive in that regard, and I remain doubtful on that for now.

    Like the off-campus arena idea as a thought experiment, although it has happened in the past (SCU played North Carolina once at Oracle, Kansas once at then-HP Pavillon in the early 2000s) and even this year- USF played Princeton at Chase Center, BYU played UNLV at the Jazz Arena, SMC played Fresno State at the Kings Arena (not super local, still) and there's been a few more over the past few years. More success- across the league- should beget more eyeballs and interest, and hopefully, more attendance and a more financially solvent way to play more games like that. The more we can be like the Big East, the better, as far as I can tell.
    There's more to it than just sending 3 teams to the tourney, the author is saying those teams are expected to do some damage and are predicted to advance further than teams from the SEC and PAC-12. Top to bottom it's hard to stack up against the power conferences, but at the top of the WCC are good teams. Right now 7/10 WCC teams are in the top 150. At least we can pick up solid wins and limit the opportunities for truly terrible losses within most of the conference schedule now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB4 View Post
    Yes many times. You have a massive rugby and rec soccer field. The tennis courts could be relocated. The softball filed is a sorry sight and could be available real estate. The existing gymnasium could be torn down and/or expanded. Parking structures can be built nearby.

    Money is the answer. The question is who has it? SMC has a lot of wealthy alumni and neighbors. Perhaps your school's benefactor department needs to do a better job.

    I'm looking at your school's alumni list on Wikipedia. I see the former owner of the Oakland athletics and real estate developer (deceased) went to SMC. The former owner and convicted felon of the San Jose Sharks is an alumni and presumably has a lot of money in ill-gotten gains that he might want to consider paying to the Catholic Church before he meets his maker. The former global chair of PwC and former Wells Fargo board member and university trustee is an alumni. There's a CFO from Microsoft and early Internet entrepreneurs.

    Many of these people are merely $100 million men, but maybe start with them to see if you can get to the real money.

    I don't know. Gonzaga is a school in Spokane that was able to obtain donations when it was just a baby basketball school. There's a lot more money in your neck of the woods than in Eastern Washington. And SMC is not a baby basketball school.
    I would concur that the school's advancement department has some fault, but it isn’t as simple as moving a few fields around and finding few $100M men… Those that you mention (Hofmann = big gift to build the new baseball field 5- years ago... and from what I understand, that was where his interest was. Incidentally, he was one of the major benefactors to McKeon in the 70's). Reyes... good luck...not too many schools want to belly up to the bar with a convicted felon. There aren't as many "wealthy" families in the SMC community as one might think... small liberal arts schools that churns out a lot of teachers … they aren't exactly goldmines. Not too many other multi-multi-millionaires on that list.

    You also have to factor in that the biggest priority in the school is admissions/recruiting students, hence the $25M recreational center that was built, and now it is a $45 million dollar library that seems to be stuck in neutral.
    Just an FYI - the town of Moraga won't allow the soccer/Rugby/softball fields/Tennis courts up front to have any buildings on them. It is considered the "view corridor", so that is a dead end and the college has been fighting it, and losing for 50 years. It is also the reason that the baseball field doesn't have lights on it (the latest loss in the fight). The other two fields (stadium and rec field) are used constantly, so you can't move them – you are just creating another huge problem. Parking - a double-decker, above ground lot can't go into the front of campus (see "view corridor") and underground parking? Not happening...$$$ + Environment (protected wetlands to the north of campus behind the old Madigan gym.

    So... yes, a lot of excuses, but also not a lot of options, other than tearing down the current structure and building a new one, that will be filled 3/4 times a year. I like the new AD's plan of beefing up locker rooms, weight rooms, etc. Things that would be attractive to a recruit. It's not perfect, but you have to fight the fight that you can win… unless someone drops $50M on them, McKeon will still be McKeon. Tell the other 7 schools to invest in their program like SMC has and life would be easier for us all (you can look it up, SMC gives the largest percentage of funding of the overall institutional budget to basketball/athletics than any other school – roughly 13%. NOT largest amount of money, but biggest piece of the pie, so there's that .

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    Quote Originally Posted by gaels87 View Post
    I would concur that the school's advancement department has some fault, but it isn’t as simple as moving a few fields around and finding few $100M men… Those that you mention (Hofmann = big gift to build the new baseball field 5- years ago... and from what I understand, that was where his interest was. Incidentally, he was one of the major benefactors to McKeon in the 70's). Reyes... good luck...not too many schools want to belly up to the bar with a convicted felon. There aren't as many "wealthy" families in the SMC community as one might think... small liberal arts schools that churns out a lot of teachers … they aren't exactly goldmines. Not too many other multi-multi-millionaires on that list.

    You also have to factor in that the biggest priority in the school is admissions/recruiting students, hence the $25M recreational center that was built, and now it is a $45 million dollar library that seems to be stuck in neutral.
    Just an FYI - the town of Moraga won't allow the soccer/Rugby/softball fields/Tennis courts up front to have any buildings on them. It is considered the "view corridor", so that is a dead end and the college has been fighting it, and losing for 50 years. It is also the reason that the baseball field doesn't have lights on it (the latest loss in the fight). The other two fields (stadium and rec field) are used constantly, so you can't move them – you are just creating another huge problem. Parking - a double-decker, above ground lot can't go into the front of campus (see "view corridor") and underground parking? Not happening...$$$ + Environment (protected wetlands to the north of campus behind the old Madigan gym.

    So... yes, a lot of excuses, but also not a lot of options, other than tearing down the current structure and building a new one, that will be filled 3/4 times a year. I like the new AD's plan of beefing up locker rooms, weight rooms, etc. Things that would be attractive to a recruit. It's not perfect, but you have to fight the fight that you can win… unless someone drops $50M on them, McKeon will still be McKeon. Tell the other 7 schools to invest in their program like SMC has and life would be easier for us all (you can look it up, SMC gives the largest percentage of funding of the overall institutional budget to basketball/athletics than any other school – roughly 13%. NOT largest amount of money, but biggest piece of the pie.
    They are not excuses, but realities. Too bad. Thanks for the history lesson. Sounds like there are a lot of NIMBY's in Moraga. Those NIMBYs are missing out though.

    What does your fan base think about playing certain games at Oracle? Nova is outside another major city and plays many games at the Wells Fargo Center in Phila. Moraga is half the distance to Oakland as Villanova is to Philadelphia. Works for them. Could be a model to emulate. SF/OAK are huge basketball cities and are looking for a local basketball champion to support. The visiting teams in the Big East are better draws than most of the WCC, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB4 View Post
    They are not excuses, but realities. Too bad. Thanks for the history lesson. Sounds like there are a lot of NIMBY's in Moraga. Those NIMBYs are missing out though.

    What does your fan base think about playing certain games at Oracle? Nova is outside another major city and plays many games at the Wells Fargo Center in Phila. Moraga is half the distance to Oakland as Villanova is to Philadelphia. Works for them. Could be a model to emulate. SF/OAK are huge basketball cities and are looking for a local basketball champion to support. The visiting teams in the Big East are better draws than most of the WCC, though.
    We played Nevada this year at Oracle and it was fun - only problem was, it was an 8:00 game and the 4,000ish that were there didn't really fill the place up. Honestly, I am hoping that is step one to playing a few games there each year. If we could get a couple of bigger-name opponents in there, it think it would draw fairly well, but who knows what the guarantee for Oracle is! Thankfully, Bennett might have finally figured out that he needs to schedule better and was able to get quality neutral site games/teams to play i.e. Dayton, Wisconsin, ASU and Nevada. That said, I don't think he would ever give up the home games vs. you guys and BYU.

    Best of luck the rest of the way & hope everyone stays healthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLOZag View Post
    Tex: I'm sure you don't mean to suggest that schools like GU are smarter than their California brethren (who may have concerns about their environment) because Washingtonians see fit to build on cheap landfilled sites, to ignore the impacts of altered surface water run-off, to design cheap HVAC systems that permit the introduction and spread of Legionnaire's Disease and other air-borne contaminants, to dump and bury their toxic demolition and construction debris on-site, and to take whatever other environmental shortcuts they can get away with in order to achieve short-term construction savings. Do you?
    Bad day at the office?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagzilla View Post
    From the article:
    "The lack of competition over the past decade led Gonzaga to mull a move to the Mountain West two years ago. The WCC made some concessions by shortening the conference schedule from a true round-robin of 18 games to 16 games in which the top teams would play the weakest teams only once per season. This allowed the likes of Gonzaga, Saint Mary's and BYU to have a better in-conference SOS, but also replace those two abandoned conference games with stronger nonconference opponents."

    Unfortunately in GU's case we have not added stronger non-conf opponents than we did before. This year, Detroit Mercy and Texas Southern look like the 2 games we exchanged for a 2nd game vs Portland etc... Last year it was CSU Bakersfield and Souther Alabama. Missed opportunity IMO to schedule other mid-majors in stead of low majors.

    Maybe next year?

    ZZ
    I hope so. GU does so much the right way and this one was a bad look (and could be viewed as hypocritical by anyone wanting to view them in a bad light).

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    Bad day at the office?
    I was thinking the same thing.

    In my dealings with California, professionally, I’ve found that there are a lot unnecessary complexities/inefficiencies/money-drains that would be hard to defend regardless of political leanings. This is certainly true in the energy biz, but I doubt that’s the only arena.

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