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Thread: GU Bigs: Analytics Thread v2.0

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Here are Brandon's numbers per 40:

    FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
    9.9 14.4 0.687 9.7 13.8 0.705 0.2 0.6 0.267 4.2 6 0.694 12.2 2.7 1.7 4.5 2.2 3 24.1
    I wonder what kind of numbers Petrusev would put up his 4th year in college...

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Valley Zag View Post
    Stats are useful to a point.

    Based on 3P% Woolridge is a better three-point shooter this year than Norvell ever was for GU.

    Based on EYE, Norvell was a far better shooter than Woolridge (who has other valuable skills).
    good example.

    on the usefulness of stats, no doubt. It shows trends coaches can investigate to get to what's important: what, how, when, why teams do what they do to succeed or fail

    so let's say a team shoots 42% from 3, stats show, and shot charts show where they are making them from, etc. As a coach, you can use that to focus energies on figuring out how that team does it, what they do to get that, why they shoot it at that % (no post game?), when they have done it well and when they have not, game to game, etc. by watching the film, and then from there develop your game plan to get what you want and deny what the opponent wants, in a nutshell

    I love stats as a tool and as a piece to the puzzle, but as I think this thread has demonstrated, there's much more to it.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdmiller7 View Post
    I wonder what kind of numbers Petrusev would put up his 4th year in college...
    Don't think we'll find out. For the record... we won't know with Brandon either
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Valley Zag View Post
    Stats are useful to a point.

    Based on 3P% Woolridge is a better three-point shooter this year than Norvell ever was for GU.

    Based on EYE, Norvell was a far better shooter than Woolridge (who has other valuable skills).
    I feel like this is a straw man caricature of stats and how they are used. You're giving an example of a prehistoric or utterly elementary stat comparison as if to demonstrate the futility of data. Does anyone use this level of analysis to make comprehensive player comparisons on internet fan message boards? I don't see it being done.

    No halfway numerically literate comparison of 3pt shooters looks only at % without regarding attempts or usage rate, or defenses played against. Another valuable data point would be % of shots that were assisted from others. JW3 shot 40% from 3pt range as a junior. That year, Jordan Matthews shot 39.2%. The way to more accurately determine which is the more skilled or better 3% shooter isn't to dismiss objective data or look at 1 stat and go straight to the eye test, it's (at least in part) to use more data in an attempt to eliminate confounding factors and have an informed comparison.
    Last edited by LTownZag; 02-26-2020 at 12:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    I feel like this is a straw man caricature of stats and how they are used. You're giving an example of a prehistoric or utterly basic stat comparison as if to demonstrate the futility of data. Does anyone make comprehensive player better<->worse comparisons on internet fan message boards? I don't see it.

    No halfway numerically literate comparison of 3pt shooters looks only at % without regarding attempts or usage rate, or defenses played against. JW3 shot 40% from 3pt range as a junior. That year, Jordan Matthews shot 39.2%. The way to more accurately determine the more skilled or better 3% shooter isn't to dismiss objective data or look at 1 stat and go straight to the eye test, it's (at least in part) to use more data in an attempt to eliminate confounding factors and have an informed comparison.
    or, if you can, watch the film and do what I said. Do you deny that's how it works Ltown?

  6. #81
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    It’s good to have stats to work with but watching how the player actually plays is at least as valuable. Fillips done a great job this year. He went soft in the BYU game. All he needs to do is watch how a tough guy works the key and make up his mind to be that guy. Timme is reticent to shove guys out of the key. But he’s one tough determined big. Bonus was S was JP Batista. Some are some are not. Some can change and some do not. Filip though is putting up great numbers . He needs to get some Sabonis in him.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    It’s good to have stats to work with but watching how the player actually plays is at least as valuable. Fillips done a great job this year. He went soft in the BYU game. All he needs to do is watch how a tough guy works the key and make up his mind to be that guy. Timme is reticent to shove guys out of the key. But he’s one tough determined big. Bonus was S was JP Batista. Some are some are not. Some can change and some do not. Filip though is putting up great numbers . He needs to get some Sabonis in him.
    Doc, empty out box.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Assume that’s Zbo. H is The Bonus.
    zero chance H was Bonus with the 3PA. Bonus didn't develop a 3pt'r until the NBA.
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Don't think we'll find out. For the record... we won't know with Brandon either
    Clarke's year at GU was his 4th year, he redshirted. Senior year would have been 5.

  10. #85

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    Rather than statistical analysis, consider from the coaching standpoint: Every coach who faces the Zags in the next month (and 1/2)will be squinting at the BYU game to try to emulate the process the bad guys used. We know that too and We can expect the next team who tries it will be in for an unpleasant surprise. Consider the glass to be (at least) 1/2 full!

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdmiller7 View Post
    Clarke's year at GU was his 4th year, he redshirted. Senior year would have been 5.
    Yep.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenoZag View Post
    As requested

    ( Moderator's Note: This thread was created to pull the discussion / analytics of GU Big men from the Petrusev Post BYU Game discussion thread )
    Thank You.

    I felt the important stuff was getting buried like Industrial Musicals. Haha

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by bballbeachbum View Post
    or, if you can, watch the film and do what I said. Do you deny that's how it works Ltown?
    I'm not sure what claim you are asking me if I agree with or would deny.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    I'm not sure what claim you are asking me if I agree with or would deny.
    I think what Bum was getting at is the data can be used to identify some specific things and what you do with that information is to go straight to the tapes to see how and why that data was produced. Furthermore, after identifying strengths and weaknesses with both the data and the film work, it's time to go to the floor and see what kind of practical applications might be the most beneficial going forward.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorsai62 View Post
    Rather than statistical analysis, consider from the coaching standpoint: Every coach who faces the Zags in the next month (and 1/2)will be squinting at the BYU game to try to emulate the process the bad guys used. We know that too and We can expect the next team who tries it will be in for an unpleasant surprise. Consider the glass to be (at least) 1/2 full!
    SF and Golden had already shown everyone the game plan to beat GU; SF just didn't hit their open 3's.

    I wish there was a stat for big men showing when they chose to rise up from 6-8 ft. and use glass to punish sagging defenses and avoid charges. We could use that skill right now.
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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    I think what Bum was getting at is the data can be used to identify some specific things and what you do with that information is to go straight to the tapes to see how and why that data was produced. Furthermore, after identifying strengths and weaknesses with both the data and the film work, it's time to go to the floor and see what kind of practical applications might be the most beneficial going forward.
    yes, then we can go the next step too, reviewing the game film and stats (hey LTown) from the game you just prepped for and played to see what worked, what didn't, why who etc., what was unexpected, do you play them again is another wrinkle to it all. then off to the next prep perhaps able to use whatever you just learned, repeat, puzzle solving fun if you're into that stuff

  17. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Awesome... thanks...

    Here are the same players with per 40 stats. All from Sophomore years (when possible):

    FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
    A 6.4 10.8 0.593 6.4 10.8 0.596 0 0 0 4 8.1 0.5 11.4 1.2 0.4 2.8 3.1 4.6 16.9
    B 5.6 10.7 0.526 5.6 10.7 0.524 0 0 1 5 7.9 0.629 8.5 0.9 1.1 3 3.2 4.6 16
    C 7.2 14.4 0.498 6.7 12.6 0.529 0.5 1.8 0.282 4.5 5.9 0.766 12.6 1.5 1.4 1.3 2 4.1 19.4
    D 7 13.5 0.517 6.2 11.2 0.551 0.8 2.3 0.353 4.3 5.6 0.772 9.2 2 1 0.5 2.7 3.3 19
    E 7 13 0.538 6.5 11.7 0.554 0.5 1.3 0.4 3.7 4.9 0.767 8.2 1.3 1.1 0.7 2.7 4.2 18.3
    F 8.3 13.6 0.611 8.1 13.1 0.621 0.2 0.5 0.357 5.2 6.8 0.769 14.8 2.2 0.8 1.1 3.2 4 22
    G 8 12.3 0.652 7.4 11.1 0.672 0.6 1.2 0.476 6.5 8.8 0.743 13.7 1 1.1 4.1 3.6 6.2 23.2
    H 8.8 16.3 0.537 7.5 13.2 0.569 1.3 3.2 0.404 4.8 6.7 0.718 11.8 0.7 0.7 2.6 2.4 4.6 23.7
    I 9.8 17.4 0.563 9.7 16.8 0.576 0.1 0.6 0.182 7.3 11.1 0.654 12.1 2 1.1 1.3 3.4 2.7 27


    Again, who would you start
    Tier 1: C, G, I, F
    Tier 2: H, A, F
    Tier 3: B, D, E
    History has its eyes on you.

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  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    Petrusev getting fouled SO MUCH more than others on the list, including people we think of as more embracing of contact.

    Does anyone who watched more of these other big guys have any ideas why FP gets fouled so much more? I wonder if fouls are up (in post play) across the board in recent years.

    Only Ronny (sophomore, junior, & senior years) and Ammo (junior year) have attempted at least 10 free throw attempts per 40 min since the 1999 season for the Zags

    Petrusev would currently rank #3

  19. #94
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    Sorry to resurrect this, but I thought this comparison was interesting



    Oof.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrooner View Post
    Sorry to resurrect this, but I thought this comparison was interesting



    Oof.
    Hope he makes a mega jump between his Freshman and Sophomore seasons.

  21. #96
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    That IS his sophomore season.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrooner View Post
    That IS his sophomore season.
    Rats!!! Maybe he's a late bloomer???

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