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Thread: GU Bigs: Analytics Thread v2.0

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post
    Let's hand him a frustrating loss first.
    Yes for starters, I'm thinking something more lasting....
    "Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand."
    óKurt Vonnegut

  2. #52
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    Eye opener on how important our big man is to this team. Agree he is being told not to foul for the very reason Reborn pointed out. We go as Petro goes it looks like. Petro is ahead of the class curve!

    Thanks Dix, this is fun and educational stuff
    To Fish & Game: Keep streams stocked well for Mr. Few!

  3. #53
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    i believe that experience and maturity will solve all of petro's problems except possibly native athleticism and reflex speed,

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Assume thatís Zbo. H is The Bonus.

    Did you "lock your answer" with "H?" If so - it appears you just took heytvelt over the bonus ... d'oh!

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    Pretty sure I is Petrusev, and that matches the eye test as him being one of our best offensive bigs in program history. G I am sure is Zach Collins. I bet H is Josh, who for me is still the most talented big in program history if he had not gotten hurt. I think B is probably Clarke when he was at San Jose State.
    LZ12 - Agree with you about Josh, especially since he had to play out of position his entire GU career as the only big during his tenure. Can you imagine him roaming around back in the day like Tillie does now?? That would be fun to watch!! Also, two of my favorite ZAG memories involve Josh..........1) Taking away Tyler Hansbrough's pudding against UNC and 2) The most impressive dunk in ZAG history IMHO...... against Baylor on an inbounds lob under the basket. One handed, all the way back behind his head.

    Great memories...............Thanks LIZF for doing the research and posting. Filip comports himself quite well in the lexicon of ZAG bigs over the streak years.

    Go ZAGS

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    Thanks, Mark. That's a good point. Team mates, coaching schemes, and opponents all change through the years.

    Do you think any of the advanced measures (offensive rating? defensive rating? PER? stuff on Kenpom?) does a good job at controlling for those?
    Honestly, I don’t think so. It might give a snapshot of how a player is performing with his current teammates, the coaching philosophy he’s playing under, etc. But, there’s also the potential that it’s wildly misleading. Especially in the college game that has so many levels of competition and so many different styles of play.

    Take a couple examples from the pros.

    Draymond Green’s PER has declined by 25 to 30 percent with Curry and Thompson out. Coach Kerr has had to adjust his style of play just to keep from getting blown out every night. Green is the same player and arguably in his prime. So I don’t think that number accurately reflects who he is. Likewise, if Draymond had been drafted by another team, he may never have had a chance to be a household name.

    Which brings us to Sabonis. OKC nearly screwed up his career trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole. They tried to make him a stretch four resulting in a PER les than seven. The very next year in Indiana his PER jumped to the twenties and has stayed there for three years. What changed? Mostly the coaching philosophy. Another big factor was getting away from Westbrook who I’m sure must have a massive PER but in my mind is a loser. OKC didn't win with him. Not confident the rest of the Rockets can get him to the top either.

    I don’t totally discount data. All knowledge is helpful. For me, it should be used to point out strengths and weaknesses so that players and coaches can work on specific things. However, I would say all the numbers do is confirm what they already know.
    Last edited by Markburn1; 02-25-2020 at 05:41 PM.

  7. #57
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    Is it possible to upgrade this thread? or maybe move the analytic part to a separate thread? Maybe from post #86 onward?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
    I am looking forward to Haws' graduation and departure from the BYU team.
    Then he can focus on his riddle-telling hobby and resume the quest to find his Precious.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    Is it possible to upgrade this thread? or maybe move the analytic part to a separate thread? Maybe from post #86 onward?
    Wish there was a way.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  10. #60
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    In some ways it’s outlived it usefulness. Everything that could be said about Filip has been said 48 hrs we have a new game and a big game following that. Let’s move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    In some ways itís outlived it usefulness. Everything that could be said about Filip has been said 48 hrs we have a new game and a big game following that. Letís move on.
    Itís not about Filip per se after post 86. Itís an interesting analytical discussion.

  12. #62
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    I think it's general concensus ( if it isn't by now it should be) that our Filip ( and a good portion of the team according to Few).........is soft and largely was manhandled by the BYU group. We know that and no matter how many ways it's said, nothing new is to be learned. THe real question is how do we proceed so FIlip doesn't bear the brunt of his deficiencies the rest of the season. Interspersed are other items and some analytics..and you're correct along those lines. If you read those posts though...it's always goes back to Filip..his weaknesses primarily.. also the strengths of other bigs before him.
    It's just my opinion that it's time to move on to the weekend games. No offense intended. We just keep drifting back to FIlip and I do think a better topic would be what we might do to counter certain weaknesses.
    Mark. I fully understood that it would be nice to uncouple the analytics from the Filip component from this thread. LIZ says it's not possible.

    Perhaps this thread should dovetail into two other threads.one about the analytics of the team and another about where we're going to help the team for a deep run.
    If we win both games this weekend we'll be 29-2. No 1 seed and number 3 or 4 depending on whihc poll you read.
    as the WCC apppraoches, how would we play BYU differently/... more Tillie, Timme? How so...etc. Who and how do we guard Childs and whats to do with Haws in terms of controlling him offensivley... stuff like that. Again, maybe these are my own interests regard how we play the next month to correct deficiencies. If Im wrong, I apologize in advance.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonstu View Post
    Did you "lock your answer" with "H?" If so - it appears you just took heytvelt over the bonus ... d'oh!
    When pigs fly. 21-15-9 last night.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    Then he can focus on his riddle-telling hobby and resume the quest to find his Precious.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    Is it possible to upgrade this thread? or maybe move the analytic part to a separate thread? Maybe from post #86 onward?
    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Wish there was a way.
    As requested

    ( Moderator's Note: This thread was created to pull the discussion / analytics of GU Big men from the Petrusev Post BYU Game discussion thread )

  16. #66
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    First to compare Petrusev to players who played the high post or 4 is not a good or a true comparison. Petrusev is not a 4. So that would take out Sabonis, Daye, Violette, and Calvary. So that leaves 9. I would next ask how many of these low post players were on the Kareen Abdul Jabar award list. I believe Clarke, Karnowski, and Batista made that list. That would take out Sacre, Heytvelt, Turiaf and JW3. Next I'd take a look at who was a finalist for the John Wooden award. I'm sure he's the only one. So obviously, there are many basketball analysts who believe he's pretty special. I also believe he's the only center to lead the team in scoring.

    You may not like him. I may not like him. He is not the best defesnive center we've had. But all that aside, he is still the best center Gonzaga has ever had in the low post. That was all I brought up. You can't take away the facts that he is a Wooden Finalist.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

  17. #67
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    A bit mad at myself... really should have added Kelly into that. Here is his line per 40 (Sophmore year only):

    FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
    6.3 11 0.574 5.3 8.7 0.608 1 2.3 0.444 3.6 5.8 0.618 11.3 2.2 1 0.4 3.6 4.8 17.2
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    First to compare Petrusev to players who played the high post or 4 is not a good or a true comparison. Petrusev is not a 4. So that would take out Sabonis, Daye, Violette, and Calvary. So that leaves 9. I would next ask how many of these low post players were on the Kareen Abdul Jabar award list. I believe Clarke, Karnowski, and Batista made that list. That would take out Sacre, Heytvelt, Turiaf and JW3. Next I'd take a look at who was a finalist for the John Wooden award. I'm sure he's the only one. So obviously, there are many basketball analysts who believe he's pretty special. I also believe he's the only center to lead the team in scoring.

    You may not like him. I may not like him. He is not the best defesnive center we've had. But all that aside, he is still the best center Gonzaga has ever had in the low post. That was all I brought up. You can't take away the facts that he is a Wooden Finalist.
    The lists you keep citing (Wooden, Jabar) compare Petrusev to players from others teams in this season.
    Everyone else is having a discussion comparing Petrusev to players from this team in other seasons.


    How do you define "low post player" in a way that excludes collegiate Sabonis or Calvary or Cory Violette (described here as a 6'11" center who took .8 3pt attempts per game over 4 years)?

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    First to compare Petrusev to players who played the high post or 4 is not a good or a true comparison. Petrusev is not a 4. So that would take out Sabonis, Daye, Violette, and Calvary. So that leaves 9. I would next ask how many of these low post players were on the Kareen Abdul Jabar award list. I believe Clarke, Karnowski, and Batista made that list. That would take out Sacre, Heytvelt, Turiaf and JW3. Next I'd take a look at who was a finalist for the John Wooden award. I'm sure he's the only one. So obviously, there are many basketball analysts who believe he's pretty special. I also believe he's the only center to lead the team in scoring.

    You may not like him. I may not like him. He is not the best defesnive center we've had. But all that aside, he is still the best center Gonzaga has ever had in the low post. That was all I brought up. You can't take away the facts that he is a Wooden Finalist.
    The Kareem Abdul Jabbar award was first awarded in 2015, so a lot of Zags may have been on the list had it been around during their careers.

  20. #70
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    So. With all these analytics, who , by the numbers, is/was our best and most efficient big man??

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    I really dont get all the negative criticism of Petrusev. As a true sophomore he stacks up well with anybody the Zags have ever had, outside of maybe Sabonis. My guess is it mostly has to do with the complaining to the refs, because his play has been great. He has been the team MVP. Tillie might be the best, when he's on the court, but Petrusev has pretty consistently great this year while being the focal point of the offense. It's clear he puts a pressure on the D by the number of opponent fouls he creates.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    So. With all these analytics, who , by the numbers, is/was our best and most efficient big man??
    Looking at single seasons, it comes down to the two guys who took a red shirt year then dominated and went to the NBA:

    Clarke '19 (he blocked more shots than he missed. Even without being the best defender in GU history, his offense probably puts him top3 on this list.)
    ---
    Olynyk '13 (and I'm not claiming Olynyk was a "low post" player for purposes of the petrusev comparisons above)

  23. #73
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    But....but....his arms are so short......

  24. #74
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    Here are Brandon's numbers per 40:

    FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
    9.9 14.4 0.687 9.7 13.8 0.705 0.2 0.6 0.267 4.2 6 0.694 12.2 2.7 1.7 4.5 2.2 3 24.1
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  25. #75
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    Petrusev has had 2 games with under 10 pts this year, 9 against Michigan and 5 against BYU when he got hurt. He has been a rockstar in most games.

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