GU Bigs: Analytics Thread v2.0

[bdmiller7]

Here are Brandon's numbers per 40:

FG	FGA	FG%	2P	2PA	2P%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
9.9	14.4	0.687	9.7	13.8	0.705	0.2	0.6	0.267	4.2	6	0.694	12.2	2.7	1.7	4.5	2.2	3	24.1

I wonder what kind of numbers Petrusev would put up his 4th year in college...

[bballbeachbum]

Stats are useful to a point.

Based on 3P% Woolridge is a better three-point shooter this year than Norvell ever was for GU.

Based on EYE, Norvell was a far better shooter than Woolridge (who has other valuable skills).

good example.

on the usefulness of stats, no doubt. It shows trends coaches can investigate to get to what's important: what, how, when, why teams do what they do to succeed or fail

so let's say a team shoots 42% from 3, stats show, and shot charts show where they are making them from, etc. As a coach, you can use that to focus energies on figuring out how that team does it, what they do to get that, why they shoot it at that % (no post game?), when they have done it well and when they have not, game to game, etc. by watching the film, and then from there develop your game plan to get what you want and deny what the opponent wants, in a nutshell

I love stats as a tool and as a piece to the puzzle, but as I think this thread has demonstrated, there's much more to it.

[LongIslandZagFan]

I wonder what kind of numbers Petrusev would put up his 4th year in college...

Don't think we'll find out. For the record... we won't know with Brandon either

[LTownZag]

Stats are useful to a point.

Based on 3P% Woolridge is a better three-point shooter this year than Norvell ever was for GU.

Based on EYE, Norvell was a far better shooter than Woolridge (who has other valuable skills).

I feel like this is a straw man caricature of stats and how they are used. You're giving an example of a prehistoric or utterly elementary stat comparison as if to demonstrate the futility of data. Does anyone use this level of analysis to make comprehensive player comparisons on internet fan message boards? I don't see it being done.

No halfway numerically literate comparison of 3pt shooters looks only at % without regarding attempts or usage rate, or defenses played against. Another valuable data point would be % of shots that were assisted from others. JW3 shot 40% from 3pt range as a junior. That year, Jordan Matthews shot 39.2%. The way to more accurately determine which is the more skilled or better 3% shooter isn't to dismiss objective data or look at 1 stat and go straight to the eye test, it's (at least in part) to use more data in an attempt to eliminate confounding factors and have an informed comparison.

[bballbeachbum]

I feel like this is a straw man caricature of stats and how they are used. You're giving an example of a prehistoric or utterly basic stat comparison as if to demonstrate the futility of data. Does anyone make comprehensive player better<->worse comparisons on internet fan message boards? I don't see it.

No halfway numerically literate comparison of 3pt shooters looks only at % without regarding attempts or usage rate, or defenses played against. JW3 shot 40% from 3pt range as a junior. That year, Jordan Matthews shot 39.2%. The way to more accurately determine the more skilled or better 3% shooter isn't to dismiss objective data or look at 1 stat and go straight to the eye test, it's (at least in part) to use more data in an attempt to eliminate confounding factors and have an informed comparison.

or, if you can, watch the film and do what I said. Do you deny that's how it works Ltown?

[MDABE80]

It’s good to have stats to work with but watching how the player actually plays is at least as valuable. Fillips done a great job this year. He went soft in the BYU game. All he needs to do is watch how a tough guy works the key and make up his mind to be that guy. Timme is reticent to shove guys out of the key. But he’s one tough determined big. Bonus was S was JP Batista. Some are some are not. Some can change and some do not. Filip though is putting up great numbers . He needs to get some Sabonis in him.

[jazzdelmar]

It’s good to have stats to work with but watching how the player actually plays is at least as valuable. Fillips done a great job this year. He went soft in the BYU game. All he needs to do is watch how a tough guy works the key and make up his mind to be that guy. Timme is reticent to shove guys out of the key. But he’s one tough determined big. Bonus was S was JP Batista. Some are some are not. Some can change and some do not. Filip though is putting up great numbers . He needs to get some Sabonis in him.

Doc, empty out box.

[kitzbuel]

Assume that’s Zbo. H is The Bonus.

zero chance H was Bonus with the 3PA. Bonus didn't develop a 3pt'r until the NBA.

[bdmiller7]

Don't think we'll find out. For the record... we won't know with Brandon either

Clarke's year at GU was his 4th year, he redshirted. Senior year would have been 5.

[Dorsai62]

Rather than statistical analysis, consider from the coaching standpoint: Every coach who faces the Zags in the next month (and 1/2)will be squinting at the BYU game to try to emulate the process the bad guys used. We know that too and We can expect the next team who tries it will be in for an unpleasant surprise. Consider the glass to be (at least) 1/2 full!

[LongIslandZagFan]

Clarke's year at GU was his 4th year, he redshirted. Senior year would have been 5.

Yep.

[Markburn1]

As requested

( Moderator's Note: This thread was created to pull the discussion / analytics of GU Big men from the Petrusev Post BYU Game discussion thread )

Thank You.

I felt the important stuff was getting buried like Industrial Musicals. Haha

[LTownZag]

or, if you can, watch the film and do what I said. Do you deny that's how it works Ltown?

I'm not sure what claim you are asking me if I agree with or would deny.

[Markburn1]

I'm not sure what claim you are asking me if I agree with or would deny.

I think what Bum was getting at is the data can be used to identify some specific things and what you do with that information is to go straight to the tapes to see how and why that data was produced. Furthermore, after identifying strengths and weaknesses with both the data and the film work, it's time to go to the floor and see what kind of practical applications might be the most beneficial going forward.

[tinfoilzag]

Rather than statistical analysis, consider from the coaching standpoint: Every coach who faces the Zags in the next month (and 1/2)will be squinting at the BYU game to try to emulate the process the bad guys used. We know that too and We can expect the next team who tries it will be in for an unpleasant surprise. Consider the glass to be (at least) 1/2 full!

SF and Golden had already shown everyone the game plan to beat GU; SF just didn't hit their open 3's.

I wish there was a stat for big men showing when they chose to rise up from 6-8 ft. and use glass to punish sagging defenses and avoid charges. We could use that skill right now.

[bballbeachbum]

I think what Bum was getting at is the data can be used to identify some specific things and what you do with that information is to go straight to the tapes to see how and why that data was produced. Furthermore, after identifying strengths and weaknesses with both the data and the film work, it's time to go to the floor and see what kind of practical applications might be the most beneficial going forward.

yes, then we can go the next step too, reviewing the game film and stats (hey LTown) from the game you just prepped for and played to see what worked, what didn't, why who etc., what was unexpected, do you play them again is another wrinkle to it all. then off to the next prep perhaps able to use whatever you just learned, repeat, puzzle solving fun if you're into that stuff

[Once and Future Zag]

Awesome... thanks...

Here are the same players with per 40 stats. All from Sophomore years (when possible):

	FG	FGA	FG%	2P	2PA	2P%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
A	6.4	10.8	0.593	6.4	10.8	0.596	0	0	0	4	8.1	0.5	11.4	1.2	0.4	2.8	3.1	4.6	16.9
B	5.6	10.7	0.526	5.6	10.7	0.524	0	0	1	5	7.9	0.629	8.5	0.9	1.1	3	3.2	4.6	16
C	7.2	14.4	0.498	6.7	12.6	0.529	0.5	1.8	0.282	4.5	5.9	0.766	12.6	1.5	1.4	1.3	2	4.1	19.4
D	7	13.5	0.517	6.2	11.2	0.551	0.8	2.3	0.353	4.3	5.6	0.772	9.2	2	1	0.5	2.7	3.3	19
E	7	13	0.538	6.5	11.7	0.554	0.5	1.3	0.4	3.7	4.9	0.767	8.2	1.3	1.1	0.7	2.7	4.2	18.3
F	8.3	13.6	0.611	8.1	13.1	0.621	0.2	0.5	0.357	5.2	6.8	0.769	14.8	2.2	0.8	1.1	3.2	4	22
G	8	12.3	0.652	7.4	11.1	0.672	0.6	1.2	0.476	6.5	8.8	0.743	13.7	1	1.1	4.1	3.6	6.2	23.2
H	8.8	16.3	0.537	7.5	13.2	0.569	1.3	3.2	0.404	4.8	6.7	0.718	11.8	0.7	0.7	2.6	2.4	4.6	23.7
I	9.8	17.4	0.563	9.7	16.8	0.576	0.1	0.6	0.182	7.3	11.1	0.654	12.1	2	1.1	1.3	3.4	2.7	27

Again, who would you start

Tier 1: C, G, I, F
Tier 2: H, A, F
Tier 3: B, D, E

[exclusivelee]

Petrusev getting fouled SO MUCH more than others on the list, including people we think of as more embracing of contact.

Does anyone who watched more of these other big guys have any ideas why FP gets fouled so much more? I wonder if fouls are up (in post play) across the board in recent years.

Only Ronny (sophomore, junior, & senior years) and Ammo (junior year) have attempted at least 10 free throw attempts per 40 min since the 1999 season for the Zags

Petrusev would currently rank #3

[scrooner]

Sorry to resurrect this, but I thought this comparison was interesting



Oof.

[Markburn1]

Sorry to resurrect this, but I thought this comparison was interesting



Oof.

Hope he makes a mega jump between his Freshman and Sophomore seasons.

[scrooner]

That IS his sophomore season.

[Markburn1]

That IS his sophomore season.

Rats!!! Maybe he's a late bloomer???