@BYU : Post game thoughts

[spike_jr]

Impossible to know if it was a bad game plan or poor execution. But I was very disappointed that we let all 3 of their big guns (Childs, Grandpa Hawes, and Toolson) “get theirs”. I think those 3 accounted for 60+ points. We had to take somebody away and we didn’t.

Timmie et al started crashing the boards and that was a big part of the comeback. It was difficult to watch a poor rebounding team out-do us for most of the game.

BYU is dirty and I agree that some sort of message needs to be sent if the refs are not going to police the extra-dirty antics.

As bad as we played, if we just shoot a hair better, we probably win. If we see them in Vegas, I suspect it will be different than last night.

Going forward, I don’t know what they have coming in, but they have 7 going out including Hawes, Childs, Toolson, and Lee. It will interesting to see if Pope rebuilds or reloads.

ETA: I talked to my buddy that was watching the game. He thought the shot to Petro by Hawes was right to the kidneys. This guy played defensive end in D1 and said when you’re not expecting that blow that it really hurts and does tend to drop you to the ground.

[White lightning]

Toolson exudes the ability to play dirty. He picked up a foul on Timme by setting up and taking a flop as Timme crossed the the key. Totally planned and set up. Just has Haws has done over the years at BYU. I'm guessing this was a set flop/ play from watching tape. It lead to free throws that started the separation after gonzaga reeled them in.

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[Mantua]

Impossible to know if it was a bad game plan or poor execution. But I was very disappointed that we let all 3 of their big guns (Childs, Grandpa Hawes, and Toolson) “get theirs”. I think those 3 accounted for 60+ points. We had to take somebody away and we didn’t.

Timmie et al started crashing the boards and that was a big part of the comeback. It was difficult to watch a poor rebounding team out-do us for most of the game.

BYU is dirty and I agree that some sort of message needs to be sent if the refs are not going to police the extra-dirty antics.

As bad as we played, if we just shoot a hair better, we probably win. If we see them in Vegas, I suspect it will be different than last night.

Going forward, I don’t know what they have coming in, but they have 7 going out including Hawes, Childs, Toolson, and Lee. It will interesting to see if Pope rebuilds or reloads.

ETA: I talked to my buddy that was watching the game. He thought the shot to Petro by Hawes was right to the kidneys. This guy played defensive end in D1 and said when you’re not expecting that blow that it really hurts and does tend to drop you to the ground.

I was expecting the outcome after the last few games. I always worry about the Zags towards the end of the season when the team’s energy and confidence seem to dwindle. BYU’s crowd has always stood out as mean spirited and BYU players have always been dirty. I would be thrilled to see BYU change conferences because I don’t want to see our players injured.

[JPtheBeasta]

Toolson exudes the ability to play dirty. He picked up a foul on Timme by setting up and taking a flop as Timme crossed the the key. Totally planned and set up. Just has Haws has done over the years at BYU. I'm guessing this was a set flop/ play from watching tape. It lead to free throws that started the separation after gonzaga reeled them in.

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I rewatched most of the second half ,and in that play when the other guy got fouled, and not him, Toolson argued with the refs A LOT (he was arguing with the ref, they cut away, and he was still arguing with the ref when the camera cut back to him) when they figured out that he shouldn't be the one shooting. That, was a bad look. He was living up to the family name, I guess... And that charge call was total trash. Is what I know BYU for: living on the edge of extremely physical, non-basketball contact coupled with looking for opportunities to flop. (Thwap and Flop?)

[LTownZag]

Kenpom only had GU as a 2pt favorite. With Childs this year (and prior to last night) BYU was already a top-10 team nationally. Add in the home court atmosphere with 19,000 BYU fans and it was easily the least likely win of the WCC schedule. I think the status of the game with 4 or 5 minutes left was more reflective than the final score though. Felt like a ~6pt loss.

Overall I think GU is more appropriately viewed in that 8th-10th range as far as best teams nationally. Our best win was a buzzer beater in overtime on a neutral vs a team ranked in the 12-15 range, and I honestly think our second best played game was a close win VS Washington, who were good at the time and appropriately ranked in the low 20s and at home.

I think in an *average quality* CBB year this team would be in the next tier up, say 12th-15th best. That's just one person's opinion, I love Kenpom, and Kenpom thinks we're better than the range I'm suggesting. But this season, and this team, knowing the injuries, shortened bench, Tillie's health, and having watched nearly 30 games, I think we are somewhere close to the 10th best team in the nation over the course of a 7 game series (or 6 game tournament) with neutral courts. With Childs, I think BYU is just a slight bit worse than us, but it's close. In a seven game series on a neutral, I'd take GU in 7. There's aren't many teams (KU, Baylor?) without a glaring weakness or two this year, so i'm expecting deep tournament runs from a few squads who get it rolling at the right time but who aren't final 4 contenders on paper or in a year with more well-rounded top level talent. That's my awkward way of saying that despite not being as good as a few recent GU teams (2013, 2015, 2019) I think we may still enter the tournament with a greater chance at winning 4 in a row and making a final 4. But after watching most of the "big games" yesterday, it would be hard to find a reason to bet on any other team in a matchup vs KU or Baylor in my book.

[CPkZagFan]

Sure there were bad calls and I am not going to bad mouth BYU. First and foremost was our sloppy play that resulted in so many turnovers. Secondly, BYU hit some insane 3 pointers and always made buckets to keep Zags from making a comeback. I will say that the refs called fouls on our bigs even when they went straight up on Chiles. Hard to guard in those circumstances.

[vandalzag]

Glad to see u come in with a immature reply.

Few had a terrible game plan and doubled down for players to have open 3 point shots late in the game. HOF coaches can have bad games.


Zags 5/26 from 3 as well. 19%.

Before each please post your game plan and the team scout compared with Few and his staff since you obviously have inside knowledge as to what his plan is and what adjusments he fails to make during the game. That way we will better understand where each game goes right or wrong.
And I am sure if Childs went for 35 and we lost you would have been on here 3 minutes after the game saying Few blew it because he did not double him.

[Bogozags]

People on here want to bad mouth BYU as being a “dirty”rogram...it is your constitutional right to Freedom of Speech...BUT I’m not one who believes that...if that were the case then Coach Few would be the first to acknowledge that issue BUT to date he hasn’t...

We were defeated last night by the better team...not understanding why there are many on here choosing to find fault with BYU as the reason we lost. It’s just simple...BYU played better last night and won...were they chippy, YES...it was Senior Night and they had something to prove and we didn’t...

Yes I understand venting but blaming the other team for your loss is really demeaning IMO...


I hope that Tillie has a healthy week and plays well on Thursday and Saturday...

[Markburn1]

People on here want to bad mouth BYU as being a “dirty”rogram...it is your constitutional right to Freedom of Speech...BUT I’m not one who believes that...if that were the case then Coach Few would be the first to acknowledge that issue BUT to date he hasn’t...

We were defeated last night by the better team...not understanding why there are many on here choosing to find fault with BYU as the reason we lost. It’s just simple...BYU played better last night and won...were they chippy, YES...it was Senior Night and they had something to prove and we didn’t...

Yes I understand venting but blaming the other team for your loss is really demeaning IMO...


I hope that Tillie has a healthy week and plays well on Thursday and Saturday...

Few is smarter than to publicly badmouth a program he has to face two to three times a year especially after a loss. it would look like whining and would serve no good purpose going forward.

[Bogozags]

Few is smarter than to publicly badmouth a program he has to face two to three times a year especially after a loss. it would look like whining and would serve no good purpose going forward.

Exactly, so the "fans" are allowed to do it for him!?!? If he thought for a minute that his players were in jeopardy of being injured, you really think HE would let it slide? It would be "leaked" one way or another but it would get out.

[Zags11]

Before each please post your game plan and the team scout compared with Few and his staff since you obviously have inside knowledge as to what his plan is and what adjusments he fails to make during the game. That way we will better understand where each game goes right or wrong.
And I am sure if Childs went for 35 and we lost you would have been on here 3 minutes after the game saying Few blew it because he did not double him.

Actually i wouldnt of as childs went for 28 and i didnt say anything about that. However you always been a wacko when anyone said anything non worshipping of few. Grow up. Nobody takes away his hall of fame credentials. He obviously is a far better coach then i would be. However doubling down vs a 3 point shooting team is a mistake and im sure he would acknowledge that. I dont even know why i respond to you.

[Zags11]

It was a poor game overall by players to coaches. Nothing has changed for me since that loss and emotions have subsided. Losses like this happen and when you lose you make adjustments and figure out what went wrong and right the ship. Which i think the zags and coaches will do. The zags will win out the rest of the way in the WCC including the WCC tournament.

Playing sports I hated losing more then winning if that makes sense and i believe the players and staff feel the same way. Go zags.

[jazzdelmar]

Actually i wouldnt of as childs went for 28 and i didnt say anything about that. However you always been a wacko when anyone said anything non worshipping of few. Grow up. Nobody takes away his hall of fame credentials. He obviously is a far better coach then i would be. However doubling down vs a 3 point shooting team is a mistake and im sure he would acknowledge that. I dont even know why i respond to you.

His mission here is embedded in his screen name, 11. Just ignore him, he goes back to his cave after a while.

[MickMick]

If I add more to this post than the following I will dilute my point of emphasis:

This team will not get past the first weekend of post season unless they learn to value the basketball. For here on out, every opponent is going to be slap happy and flailing arms. Better learn to overcome it. Complaining about physicality after a loss = still a loss. They collectively need NWG III level toughness by being strong with the ball. Every possession is critical, especially against a team that can light you up offensively and quickly put you into a hole.

[SorenTodd45]

BYU is a dirty program, and I sure hope they lose on March 9th in Vegas. I really don't want to see them again on the 10th (assuming we win on the 9th).

[Zags11]

His mission here is embedded in his screen name, 11. Just ignore him, he goes back to his cave after a while.

Lolol

[LongIslandZagFan]

People on here want to bad mouth BYU as being a “dirty”rogram...it is your constitutional right to Freedom of Speech...BUT I’m not one who believes that...if that were the case then Coach Few would be the first to acknowledge that issue BUT to date he hasn’t...

We were defeated last night by the better team...not understanding why there are many on here choosing to find fault with BYU as the reason we lost. It’s just simple...BYU played better last night and won...were they chippy, YES...it was Senior Night and they had something to prove and we didn’t...

Yes I understand venting but blaming the other team for your loss is really demeaning IMO...


I hope that Tillie has a healthy week and plays well on Thursday and Saturday...

For the record... and just being a stickler... and a bit of a smart alec... but FoS doesn't techinically apply here, or at your job, or many other places. It simply means the Government cannot make laws saying you can't say what you want to say, especially about the government.

That is all.

For the record... they can be both a talented team and STILL play dirty... they are not mutually exclusive.

[TexasZagFan]

BYU is a dirty program, and I sure hope they lose on March 9th in Vegas. I really don't want to see them again on the 10th (assuming we win on the 9th).

I'm really going to have a hard time rooting for them during the Dance. My animus towards BYU goes back 40+ years. Kent Lockhart of UTEP would've put Haws in the third row IMO.

[Kong-Kool-Aid]

All I know is I hope that our team is better at dealing with adversity than a bunch of the fans are.

[zag944]

Crowd is huge, loud, and somehow scarier given the knowledge that they are acting like that while generally sober. They get mad about calls not because they are wrong, but because they were called on BYU. A restricted area call should be a pretty black and white thing...doesn’t matter. Our shots were off and the officials seemed intimidated. Kudos to them I guess, with the exception of the idiot(s) throwing things onto the floor. I think that game goes differently with less of an effort on their part.

[gobroncsgozags]

Regardless of feelings on this game specifically, BYU is widely regarded as a dirty program. Ask fans of MWC teams. I was definitely opposed to their inclusion in the WCC, especially in their weak attempt to keep up with their big brother, the University of Utah. I knew games would look like this, and they certainly have lived up to their reputation.

https://images.app.goo.gl/trKpBmu9SS7Aarxc9

Sorry, I don't know how to post GIFs.

[SorenTodd45]

I'm really going to have a hard time rooting for them during the Dance. My animus towards BYU goes back 40+ years. Kent Lockhart of UTEP would've put Haws in the third row IMO.

When I was an Arizona Wildcats fan, I rooted for the entire Pac-10 in the Dance. Same thing for the WCC, now that I am a Zags fan. This year has to be the exception; I hope the Cougars lose their first round game. I hope they draw an opponent that plays even dirtier than they do. Right now BYU is projected to be a #6 seed, so an upset can very well happen.

[Zag Lady]

Crowd is huge, loud, and somehow scarier given the knowledge that they are acting like that while generally sober. They get mad about calls not because they are wrong, but because they were called on BYU. A restricted area call should be a pretty black and white thing...doesn’t matter. Our shots were off and the officials seemed intimidated. Kudos to them I guess, with the exception of the idiot(s) throwing things onto the floor. I think that game goes differently with less of an effort on their part.

I'm still struggling with this game, not so much the fact that we lost, but how we lost. I agree with Zag 944, I think the refs were intimidated by the crowd. They could have had a riot on their hands if they called a flagrant I or II on Haws, and they knew it. Lots of opportunities for technical fouls against BYU, yet none were called. The statistic that stands out the most for me is Haws with ZERO personal fouls. Our guys fought hard, but looked totally defeated towards the end of the game, it's hard to play 5 against 8 for a full 40 minutes.

[LTownZag]

Replay here:



Despite the comments from Kispert and Tillie, I think the crowd definitely mattered. Woolridge airballed a free throw, there were multiple short "entry" passes to nowhere.

A few obersvations:

• GU lead for the first 14 minutes of the game. It was a 3pt game with 6min left. It's easy to forget that. We also "won" the middle 10min of the 2nd half with defensive stops and bringing a 14 point deficit down to 2.
  That was mostly with the Gilder/Timme in for Ayayi/Petrusev
• Petrusev just simply does not run down the court to get a body on someone in defense. It lead to all kinds of transition or semi-quick BYU buckets. Can he sprint? Does he ever?
• Woolridge has been complimented by Few as a great defender, but I must be missing it. Not good vs Colby Ross (X2) or Jordan Ford and bad on Haws & Toolson.
• Timme our only big who ever looks to pass from the low post
• Most of Kispert's shots, including FTs, looked flat. He missed 9 3s, most or all off the front of rim.
• Many double team attempts on Childs seemed half-hearted on him, but left an open shooter alone.
• Petrusev's help defense often meant standing around halfway between two players, covering neither. (3:26, 5:00, )
• Hoop Vision calls BYU's through action with Haws the hardest thing to guard in CBB this year.

[zagdontzig]

People on here want to bad mouth BYU as being a “dirty”rogram...it is your constitutional right to Freedom of Speech...BUT I’m not one who believes that...if that were the case then Coach Few would be the first to acknowledge that issue BUT to date he hasn’t...

There are YouTube compilations dedicated to BYU's illustrious pedigree of cheap shots.

We were defeated last night by the better team...not understanding why there are many on here choosing to find fault with BYU as the reason we lost. It’s just simple...BYU played better last night and won...were they chippy, YES...it was Senior Night and they had something to prove and we didn’t...

Agreed.

Yes I understand venting but blaming the other team for your loss is really demeaning IMO...

I get it, but this is always a bad look to me.