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Thread: Gonzaga vs San Francisco II Post Game thoughts and analysis

  1. #26
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    I’ll negative Nancy it for a minute and say we are going to get trounced in the NCAAs. We’re too thin and what we have is not consistently working against WCC level teams. Petrusev is not an elite player in my mind, no matter what the stats say. No defense, no midrange or outside game and still misses point blank shots all over the place. This idea that he’s gone for the nba is laughable. Timme gets a freshman pass I guess but after the momentum he had been picking up lately it’s pretty apparent when he is a non factor. He is proceeded by Ayayi in that regard. Kid was ready to stand on top of the world early on and is now... not. Glider no showing sucks but whatever. Just seems like we’re getting worse, not better. There are very little positives to take away as a learning experience anymore when they don’t seem to be making advances after laying out some real stinkers. I don’t know, maybe it’s the flu or the “WCC has our number” but this team is not a team to fear around the country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stache View Post
    This was a helpful game. There was a lot of uncalled contact and we didn’t respond well in the first half. It would be nice to see Petro and Timme get balanced and just shoot the 10-12 footer. Instead, they were drifting and leaning on those shots or dribbling right into contact that wasn’t getting called. We will need those shots because sitting off of them worked reasonably well. Saturday is going to be a tough game.
    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    l. Reflecting back on the last game, SFU managed to keep their big man on the floor for the second half this time around and he was rarely a factor. SFU's coach can't make that excuse this game. I wonder what it would be?
    I agree about Petrusev and Timme. They need to quit trying to hit a 6' floater and set their feet. They may have been trying to draw fouls on Lull. It didn't work.
    I guess that the Zags 'Lulled' their center to sleep. He didn't seem to be a factor despite not fouling out.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    The game was a reminder of how fragile this team is in terms of talent. Previous Zag teams had one or more all-Americans or lottery players who were so good even a bad game wasn't that bad. Their teams, consequently, had a fatter margin for error. This team has an iffy Tillie as its star and a whole lot of very nice CBB players. When things go bad, they go really bad and the slog back is long and tough. Under a little 2d half pressure, USF fell apart, they are a C plus team. In the 2d round a P5 team will be a whole lot tougher and the Zags will be hard pressed to recover from such an atrocious start.

  4. #29
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    The first half reminded me of Duke's coach talking about the lack of hunger and the GU years where we just didn't play to our potential against "lesser" teams. The 2nd half reminded me of that one time in 2020 when we won the National Championship.
    Krozman
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  5. #30
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    Zags KenPom Def Eff ranking after last night.... 26! A good defensive showing against BYU could make a huge difference.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Zags KenPom Def Eff ranking after last night.... 26! A good defensive showing against BYU could make a huge difference.
    The Zags improved their defensive ranking a lot the last time they played and they actually could end up in the vicinity of the top 15 if they play well enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    USF hit a lot of tough shots in the first half, made some big rebounds, and erased 3 fast break layups with blocks, I think. Meanwhile, the Zags missed several wide open threes and took some crazy shots down low. USF got a way with pushing on post players with two hands multiple times. Other times, they threw Timme and Petrusev off by sagging extremely far off. I agree that these guys need to be ready to hit some mid-range shots in case another team tries to employ that strategy (although I think it is a desperate move by SFU and don't think most coaches would intentionally give a player wide open looks 6 feet from the basket).

    I think that USF came down to earth in the second half and regressed to their mean. I didn't appreciate the hard foul when the Don player hooked Petrusev's arm when they went into the Hack-A-Zag strategy at the end; I thought it was an excessive, non-basketball play and that the player was not making a play on the ball. Kispert had a great dunk off the dribble in the second half, and Tillie threw down 2 more, if I recall.

    Reflecting back on the last game, USF managed to keep their big man on the floor for the second half this time around and he was rarely a factor. SFU's coach can't make that excuse this game. I wonder what it would be?
    Lull being on the bench with foul trouble was cited by many as important last time, but GU didn't really score easy paint buckets any more with Lull out then when he was in, maybe even fewer. When he left the game last time I was expecting an inside feast with Petrusev, but it was as though the team, upon getting Lull on the bench, didn't need to go inside to pressure him to go to the bench, and simply didn't exploit the vacuum.

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    It's all mental for the guys at this point. Everyone knew the ZAGS were going to win last night (last night was 18 straight against USF), it was one of those games where the outcome is pre-ordained. The guys came out flat, looked terrible in the 1st half, then focused for 10-12 minutes and went on a 22-2 run to put it away. Following that outburst, back to the flat, grind it out finish before hitting the showers.

    OTOH, the guys came out focused and excited for the SMC game in Moraga and we all know how that game turned out. Same lineup as last night, drastically different result. This is the down side of being stuck in the WCC. As the talking heads said last night (like they say every year)............the ZAGS could win the SEC and the BIG 10 but they wouldn't run roughshod over the other teams in the conference.

    The WCC may be a 3-bid league this year, but other than those three teams (GU, BYU, SMC) the rest of the conference is not very good, especially when those teams visit the kennel. There are a couple of reasons the ZAGS hold all three current conference winning streaks (home, road, overall). One reason is the ZAGS are really good, the other reason is most of the rest of the conference isn't.

    This happens every year near/at the end of conference play. The guys are itching to get to the Dance again and make a run, these last few games are just a nuisance between then and now. The streak is intact, the conference championship is locked up, a protected seed is guaranteed, nothing left to prove in the WCC in 2019/2020.

    IMHO, the guys will be ready tomorrow night in Provo, much more like in Moraga than last night.

    Go ZAGS

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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    Lull being on the bench with foul trouble was cited by many as important last time, but GU didn't really score easy paint buckets any more with Lull out then when he was in, maybe even fewer. When he left the game last time I was expecting an inside feast with Petrusev, but it was as though the team, upon getting Lull on the bench, didn't need to go inside to pressure him to go to the bench, and simply didn't exploit the vacuum.
    I attribute some of it to an off night by Petrusev. I think the sagging really got into Timme’s head— he’s probably used to seeking contact and making his move from there. It was painful to watch.

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    Jim Meehan's Game Story: https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...-gonzaga-to-7/

    “I don’t think it was super complicated, we just didn’t take care of the ball,” USF coach Todd Golden said. “We did a phenomenal job in the first half of taking care of the ball, which obviously limited their transition, kept them out of the break.

    “In the half court, I think we can guard them. That’s just the bottom line. We obviously proved that in the first half of the first game and the first half of this game. But I think we turned it over on five straight possessions in the second half, or something crazy like that.”
    Rex Walters, 2.0 ?

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    John Blanchette's Column: https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...ssons-while-p/

    There’s something different in that formula this year, according to USF coach Todd Golden.

    “What’s so unique about them … is they’re so physical and so big inside. That I think really leads to their lack of volatility in terms of how they perform,” he said.

    “They really kind of raise the baseline, so to speak, in terms of what they can do because they don’t rely on their 3-point shooting. I think more than other teams they’ve had in the past, they really just hammer, hammer, hammer the ball inside. Even last year with Rui (Hachimura) and Brandon (Clarke), those weren’t back-to-the-basket guys. They were more screen-and-roll or rim-runner types, whereas (Filip) Petrusev and (Drew) Timme … just punish you and wear you out.”

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    The game was a reminder of how fragile this team is in terms of talent. Previous Zag teams had one or more all-Americans or lottery players who were so good even a bad game wasn't that bad. Their teams, consequently, had a fatter margin for error. This team has an iffy Tillie as its star and a whole lot of very nice CBB players. When things go bad, they go really bad and the slog back is long and tough. Under a little 2d half pressure, USF fell apart, they are a C plus team. In the 2d round a P5 team will be a whole lot tougher and the Zags will be hard pressed to recover from such an atrocious start.
    Few said it earlier in the season. When this team is healthy and "on" they can beat anybody. When they are off they could lose to 150 teams. Hopefully if they do suffer a slow start it will be against a team that only had 1 day to prepare. The one thing about this team is that other than the Michigan game they have been able to make adjustments in the 2nd half and right the ship. If we can keep all the pieces in place though the WCC tourney I like our chances. Such a fun team to watch with Tillie healthy, but the in and out of the lineup does cause some chemistry issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SunDevilGolfZag View Post
    Dykes alluded to Tillie as Larry Bird. I like it.
    While I was writing before the game yesterday, and thinking about what to say about Tillie, I did think of him as a Larry Bird type of player. That says a lot for me because Bird is my all-time favorite basketball player. One reason I feel this way is because Larry was a great shooter, yes, but also a great passer, which Killian is too. Bird played with such intensity and confidence that few players his size have had, but Killian is one who does. I am a little surprised that more Zag fans who write here don't appreciate the comparison. I get a little tired of hearing how this team doesn't have a "real star." Or doesn't have a first round pick. You know, the kind of player who will bring a team through when they struggle on offense. What the heck to you think happened last night, and other nights. In my mind, Tillie is a first round draftee into the NBA. Hi IS my Larry Bird. And I agree with the analyst who said it, that there is not a better power forward in the college game today.

    Fran F was certainly a problem for me last night. I've always liked Fran, and in the past has always had very good things to say about Gonzaga. The other thing I didn't like was when he asked Dykes if he thought Woolridge was a good enough point guard to get the Zags to a Final Four, and then he rattled off about 6 or 7 point guards that he felt were way better than Woolridge. And I loved the way Dykes handled his negativity. He replied that he DID feel Woolridge was good enough, and I do too. And regarding the issue of whether Gonzaga's conference (WCC) hurts them when it comes to the NCAA Tournament. Again Dykes silenced his criticism as he pointed out the all too obvious, that look at Gonzaga's tournament record and tell me what you really think? He pointed out to Fran that Gonzaga has the best record of ANY team including the Blue Bloods, of making it to the Sweet 16 in consecutive years. I think he did mention that the Zags have made in the Elite 8 in 3 of the last 5 seasons.

    On a more positive note I did LOVE, absolutely LOVED, seeing Fran and Dykes dancing with the Gonzaga students. Especialy Dykes but I got to give Fran credit. He looked in pretty good shape. And then after the game Dykes was saying that some of the GU students asked him to go out with them after the game, and Dykes actually said that he was considering canceling his flight home after the game so he could go out with the kids. Now I thought that was AWESOME. Dykes is really really cool.

    Go Zags!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RenoZag View Post
    Jim Meehan's Game Story: https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...-gonzaga-to-7/



    Rex Walters, 2.0 ?
    Guarded the post by not guarding the post. Very Zen.

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    Default TSSF "10 Observations" Column

    https://www.slipperstillfits.com/202...s-win-over-usf

    • Once again, USF put together a really strong defensive effort in the first half. The Dons did a good job of defending Gonzaga’s pick-n-roll, and the individual defending was strong enough to avoid needing to overhelp and compromise the integrity of their defensive system.
    • On the other hand, Gonzaga’s defense got roasted by USF’s drive and kick game, frequently handing the Dons wide open threes on the perimeter when too many defenders got sucked into the paint. This has happened a lot this year, so I’m not expecting them to wrinkle out these issues anymore, but it’s still quite annoying.


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    Quote Originally Posted by vandalzag View Post
    Few said it earlier in the season. When this team is healthy and "on" they can beat anybody. When they are off they could lose to 150 teams. Hopefully if they do suffer a slow start it will be against a team that only had 1 day to prepare. The one thing about this team is that other than the Michigan game they have been able to make adjustments in the 2nd half and right the ship. If we can keep all the pieces in place though the WCC tourney I like our chances. Such a fun team to watch with Tillie healthy, but the in and out of the lineup does cause some chemistry issues.
    Its pretty amazing that they've been "on" for pretty much every game except for Michigan and even that game was more a function of all the injuries and sheer exhaustion (combined with a peaking Wolverines team) than anything else. The team seems to find another gear in the 2nd half of the closer games and seem to respond really well to the coaching staff adjustments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hooter73 View Post
    I’ll negative Nancy it for a minute and say we are going to get trounced in the NCAAs. We’re too thin and what we have is not consistently working against WCC level teams. Petrusev is not an elite player in my mind, no matter what the stats say. No defense, no midrange or outside game and still misses point blank shots all over the place. This idea that he’s gone for the nba is laughable. Timme gets a freshman pass I guess but after the momentum he had been picking up lately it’s pretty apparent when he is a non factor. He is proceeded by Ayayi in that regard. Kid was ready to stand on top of the world early on and is now... not. Glider no showing sucks but whatever. Just seems like we’re getting worse, not better. There are very little positives to take away as a learning experience anymore when they don’t seem to be making advances after laying out some real stinkers. I don’t know, maybe it’s the flu or the “WCC has our number” but this team is not a team to fear around the country.
    We are 27-1, we are blowing teams out for the most part (even when we play a terrible half of basketball).

    To imply we are getting worse is just crazy, looking at where this team was to where it is now is like night and day.
    The only thing really to consider is we go as far as Killian's health takes us.

    Sit back and enjoy the ride.
    Reflect on the days not so long ago where we would be nervous about being an at large team, or wouldn't even be in the tournament if we didn't win out in Vegas.
    Those days are gone, with a rebuilding team we are #2 ranked in the country... we have the #1 offense in the country.

    I'm not sure what else you are looking for here.

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    Defense is also improving.. we are now up to 26th on Kenpom for Defensive efficiency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TacomaZAG View Post
    It's all mental for the guys at this point. Everyone knew the ZAGS were going to win last night (last night was 18 straight against USF), it was one of those games where the outcome is pre-ordained. The guys came out flat, looked terrible in the 1st half, then focused for 10-12 minutes and went on a 22-2 run to put it away. Following that outburst, back to the flat, grind it out finish before hitting the showers.

    OTOH, the guys came out focused and excited for the SMC game in Moraga and we all know how that game turned out. Same lineup as last night, drastically different result. This is the down side of being stuck in the WCC. As the talking heads said last night (like they say every year)............the ZAGS could win the SEC and the BIG 10 but they wouldn't run roughshod over the other teams in the conference.

    The WCC may be a 3-bid league this year, but other than those three teams (GU, BYU, SMC) the rest of the conference is not very good, especially when those teams visit the kennel. There are a couple of reasons the ZAGS hold all three current conference winning streaks (home, road, overall). One reason is the ZAGS are really good, the other reason is most of the rest of the conference isn't.

    This happens every year near/at the end of conference play. The guys are itching to get to the Dance again and make a run, these last few games are just a nuisance between then and now. The streak is intact, the conference championship is locked up, a protected seed is guaranteed, nothing left to prove in the WCC in 2019/2020.

    IMHO, the guys will be ready tomorrow night in Provo, much more like in Moraga than last night.

    Go ZAGS
    This is exactly what I was going to point out.

    Though I agree with Jazz that this team doesn't have the depth or talent as some in years past, I don't see a lot of other teams that do, either, this year - so a deep run is still possible.

    But your point is the one to take away. This team blew BYU out, it blew SMC out spectacularly in Moraga, which doesn't say to me that they're going to the Final Four, it says to me that they are kinda bored, and when they have their focus, they are dangerous.

    Kinda like the 2nd half - they HAD to focus, they were down by 9. They came out and USF didn't score till 7 minutes in, had 4 points in the 2nd half at the 10 min mark.

    Last night means nothing in terms of what we're capable of - Saturday night will be the measure. If we get beat fairly easily, looking weak, then we have real issues looking at March. If we come out and play a fantastic game, an epic contest that is a war, then even if BYU eeks out a 2 point victory, it will tell us we're tough and will be a tough out.

    No matter WHAT happens from here on out, though, this is by far Few's greatest coaching job - in my mind - ever.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    The game was a reminder of how fragile this team is in terms of talent. Previous Zag teams had one or more all-Americans or lottery players who were so good even a bad game wasn't that bad. Their teams, consequently, had a fatter margin for error. This team has an iffy Tillie as its star and a whole lot of very nice CBB players. When things go bad, they go really bad and the slog back is long and tough. Under a little 2d half pressure, USF fell apart, they are a C plus team. In the 2d round a P5 team will be a whole lot tougher and the Zags will be hard pressed to recover from such an atrocious start.
    I really have to disagree with you, Jazz. I loved last year's team too, and Rui and Brandon Clarke were so special, Norvell was too. But I completely disagree with you about how much better last year's players and team was. Last year's team did have close games also, just like this year's. I just checked and they did. AND they did get beat by St Mary's in the conference tournament and played HORRIBLE ((47 points). Our super stars were certainly off that game. I think you're description of Tillie as "iffy Tillie" really is an injustice to him, and yes, he has been injured, but he has certainly performed at a very high level when needed. Last night was one example. Neither Rui nor Clarke played injured the way Tills has, and imo, neither has the same overall game that Tills has. And I think it's about time that some fans here start giving Petrusev and Kisspert the credit that they deserve. IMO Kispert has stood the test, and has passed with flying colors. I'll take him over Norvell.

    I also don't think this team is fragile at all when it comes to talent. You don't go undefeated in conference, or go 27 and 1 without talent. I KNOW this to be true. This team has been so strong it's mind blowing to me. I say this because Tillie has been injured off and on and these kids held together until he got back his strength. They played a number of games with only six players. I think to say that Woolridge, Kispert, Ayayi, Gilder and Timme are not talented, or if they are it is only a "fragile" kind of talent, is completely wrong, Jazz. I totally respect your judgement, and so often agree with you, but in this instance I believe you are undervaluing our talent.

    The game last night was not our best effort, certainly in the first half. But like I said, last years team had some games like that too. And this team DOES have the talent to turn a bad first half into a very good second half. Petrusev was a very, very different player the second half and Kispert too. One thing I will remind you of is that as bad as the team played in the first half, they did win by 17 points. hahahaha A 17 point victory over USF is a pretty good win imo. They have a good team and a good coach. When you look at the game we won by 25 points in the second half, and actually eased up toward the end. A 22-2 run coming out of the half after a really BAD first half shows me something about this team. I hope you notice that. That kind of an effort is not coming from a "fragile" team.

    I know there's no right or wrong. I just wanted to share my point of view. I always respect yours, even though sometimes I see things differently. I know you feel the same about me.

    Go Zags!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    This is exactly what I was going to point out.

    Though I agree with Jazz that this team doesn't have the depth or talent as some in years past, I don't see a lot of other teams that do, either, this year - so a deep run is still possible.

    But your point is the one to take away. This team blew BYU out, it blew SMC out spectacularly in Moraga, which doesn't say to me that they're going to the Final Four, it says to me that they are kinda bored, and when they have their focus, they are dangerous.

    Kinda like the 2nd half - they HAD to focus, they were down by 9. They came out and USF didn't score till 7 minutes in, had 4 points in the 2nd half at the 10 min mark.

    Last night means nothing in terms of what we're capable of - Saturday night will be the measure. If we get beat fairly easily, looking weak, then we have real issues looking at March. If we come out and play a fantastic game, an epic contest that is a war, then even if BYU eeks out a 2 point victory, it will tell us we're tough and will be a tough out.

    No matter WHAT happens from here on out, though, this is by far Few's greatest coaching job - in my mind - ever.
    Your last two paragraphs are a nice addition, totally agree on both counts!!

    Go ZAGS

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    I don’t know, maybe it’s the flu or the “WCC has our number” but this team is not a team to fear around the country.
    Gary Parrish and Matt Norlander said the same thing on their podcast recently...…...except that there is no reason to fear ANY TEAM IN THE NATION. Not just Gonzaga. Gonzaga can BEAT anyone. Every single number one seed stands a good chance of getting beaten by an 8/9 seed. The talent level throughout the college basketball world this season maybe the worst I have seen in my lifetime. The combination of a terrible 2019 recruiting class with far too many guys like Norvell bolting for the NBA and not getting picked has created a situation where I have absolutely zero clue who is going to win the national title. Parrish said we could actually see a team like Dayton win the whole deal this season. We are in THAT KIND of season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stache View Post
    This was a helpful game. There was a lot of uncalled contact and we didn’t respond well in the first half. It would be nice to see Petro and Timme get balanced and just shoot the 10-12 footer. Instead, they were drifting and leaning on those shots or dribbling right into contact that wasn’t getting called. We will need those shots because sitting off of them worked reasonably well. Saturday is going to be a tough game.
    SF has definitely shown all future opponents how to defend the Zags. Timme and Petro definitely have to be taking wide open shots from the
    free throw line. Even if they make them at 60%, that will not be bad. Otherwise, the middle will totally be clogged and if we face shot blockers like the front line of Seton Hall, we need to take those mid range shots. Zags usually are good at taking what the defense gives them, not so much tonight in the first half.
    Petro and Timme both turning down wide open mid range jumpers and then driving into the teeth of their defense usually resulted in a blocked shot, missed shot or turnover.

    Timme and Petro need to start taking those shots now rather than waiting for the tourney.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    The Zags improved their defensive ranking a lot the last time they played and they actually could end up in the vicinity of the top 15 if they play well enough.
    Tillie fouled out and Kispert had 3 fouls. Everyone else had 1 foul. Woolridge played great D in the second half, but I would have liked to se the guys with 1 foul make more of an effort. They seemed so paralyzed in the first half. They kept fumbling the ball and couldn’t defend it. Were they still adjusting to Tillie’s return? Was it a failed game plan?
    How many kids have the flu? The viruses going around right now seem to last longer than the viruses in recent years. I’m worried about how much energy our guys will have in Provo.

    The announcer’s theme of the night was that the Zags couldn’t play defense but in the end USF was held to 33.3% FGM and 25% 3PT. IMHO despite the Zag’s decent shooting percentages the offense wasn’t working.
    Parlez-vous français?

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    Agree with much of what is said in this thread, particularly the point about Few's ability to make adjustments in-game to address specific issues (something about which he was often criticized earlier in his career).

    The thing that has really jumped out at me lately is that even when we beat teams handily, we seem to have stretches with multiple boneheaded unforced errors. THAT is a trait I don't feel was characteristic of recent Zag teams...it wasn't that long ago that this board would melt down whenever Perkins would make a dumb turnover early in his career (he made far fewer as the years went on); now it seems like we have several of those every game, often on consecutive possessions, and all of our guys do it. Bad passes, dribbling into traffic, out-of-control offensive fouls, trying to make the home-run play - that stuff will kill us in the tourney when our lack of depth and the higher level of competition will leave way less margin for error.
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