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Thread: #2 seed in the West. Who says no?

  1. #1
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    Default #2 seed in the West. Who says no?

    If the NCAA gave both S.D. St and Gonzaga the option of being #1 seed in the East or #2 seed in the West, would either school say no to #2 in the West? I wouldn’t say no to #2 in the West.

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    Nope sure wouldn’t
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzagafan62 View Post
    Nope sure wouldn’t
    I don’t really care where we are seeded in regards to region as long as we play in Spokane the first week and the matchups are good. I know many are worried about Duke but they’re not nearly the concern for me as they usually would be. I worry much more about facing physical, athletic teams that are deep due to our limited rotation.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Vulture View Post
    I don’t really care where we are seeded in regards to region as long as we play in Spokane the first week and the matchups are good. I know many are worried about Duke but they’re not nearly the concern for me as they usually would be. I worry much more about facing physical, athletic teams that are deep due to our limited rotation.


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    It’s not about playing Duke, it’s about possibly playing Duke in MSG (their second home) vs Duke in LA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 23dpg View Post
    It’s not about playing Duke, it’s about possibly playing Duke in MSG (their second home) vs Duke in LA.
    As I said, I am not worried about Duke this year and I’m really not worried about who we’d play in the Elite 8 as all teams at that point are going to be tough.


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    Quote Originally Posted by 23dpg View Post
    It’s not about playing Duke, it’s about possibly playing Duke in MSG (their second home) vs Duke in LA.
    Exactly. I’ll take my chances in LA every single day and 5 times on Sunday. Forget going out East. I don’t think people understand what happens when you go 3 time zones over.
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    I live in lower Manhattan and can take the 1 train (about a 20 minute subway trip) to MSG.

    It's a six-hour plane flight to the land of my birth (I was born about 9 miles from the Staples Center) if I make the trip to see us play in the West Regional.

    Selfishness notwithstanding, I'd STILL rather we play in the West, irrespective of seed line.
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    I worry most about the style of officiating game to game.

    That said, it is often talked about how much easier it is for GU's fans to get to games on the west coast. Home court gives something like a 3-4 point advantage. That's a big difference when teams are so even. Add in that Coack K is very good at working the refs and that his teams tend to get a lot of calls as a result(in my opinion), Duke at MSG is bad juju.

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    A #2 seed is still a protected seed. Whatever the Zags have to do to get to the Spokane Arena, then Staples, is what they should do. We have no control over what SDSU does, we can only control what we do.

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    After the first weekend, seeding doesn't mean anything except for winning a beauty contest. Those second weekend games are tough, tough, tough. Doesn't matter what seed the opponent is. Most people assume "chalk" when pondering deep run scenarios, but really, the teams that survive the first weekend are the true power of the tournament.


    Alternatively, I have read arguments that the one seeds are relatively weak and that a four seed is a better path (through the one seed) than the two seed potentially facing a three seed. I'm not buying it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23dpg View Post
    It’s not about playing Duke, it’s about possibly playing Duke in MSG (their second home) vs Duke in LA.
    Duke in LA? It must have felt strange typing that because reading it looks totally absurd. I really hope we see Duke in the Final Four, because it ain't happening before then unless they ship us east.

    Personally I think matchups are more important that where we play after the Sweet Sixteen. This is a year that if we had to, we could take down Duke in MSG. And it would be glorious. But I would much rather take them down in the Final Four--even more satisfying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickMick View Post
    After the first weekend, seeding doesn't mean anything except for winning a beauty contest. Those second weekend games are tough, tough, tough. Doesn't matter what seed the opponent is. Most people assume "chalk" when pondering deep run scenarios, but really, the teams that survive the first weekend are the true power of the tournament.


    Alternatively, I have read arguments that the one seeds are relatively weak and that a four seed is a better path (through the one seed) than the two seed potentially facing a three seed. I'm not buying it.
    I'm with you Mick. I get the argument in some years when "#1s are weak, second tier/field generally is strong", but this is more of a "whole field is weaker than normal" year.
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    I’d prefer to stay in the West Region as a No. 2 seed. I don’t see that happening, unless the Zags drop a game and Duke runs the table to take that fourth No. 1 seed.
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    West region please. If for no other reason than the west region games tend to be the later start times compared to possibly having a start time closer to 9am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagamatic View Post
    West region please. If for no other reason than the west region games tend to be the later start times compared to possibly having a start time closer to 9am.
    this seems to be a good enough reason, besides all of the others. Why travel 4,000 miles across the country?
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    I wouldn't, because if that doesn't occur, GU's likely destination (if they aren't the #1 in the west) is to play at MSG against Duke at Cameron Indoor Stadium North.

    The only two teams in this thing who I do not want to see are Duke AT MSG and Kansas in Indy.

    When I say this, I am not saying disrespecting SDSU or any other team GU might play in the NCAA tourney. It will be tough no matter what. It's just a matter of picking your poison. I especially feel that an unbeaten SDSU team is highly vulnerable in the tournament. Holding on to that unbeaten record is SO tough unless you are super elite.

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    I don't care who we play or where we play, as long as it's happening in the Elite 8. I wouldn't assume that Duke is a lock to make the Elite 8 this year either. They are good, but they aren't like they've been in the recent past. In any case, we all have our concerns I suppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MickMick View Post
    After the first weekend, seeding doesn't mean anything except for winning a beauty contest.
    I've read and heard this claim before, or variants of it (seeds don't matter, it's a crap shoot, it's a crap shoot after "X" round" ) and I've never been sure what the arguer is saying, since there's clear data that initial seeding is strongly correlated with performance at all rounds. Can you explain your point of view at all? I'm possibly just misunderstanding it, not trying to jump to negative conclusions.


    If you begin with the 2nd weekend (S16 column) and look at the rate at which teams keep winning:




    Of the original #1 and #2 seed playing the second weekend, well over 70% win their S16 game.
    Whereas of the original #3+ seed, less than 50% (usually much less) win their s16 game.

    Also, among #4 seeds to make the elite 8 (usually by knocking off the #1), 62% win their next game, likely against a #2 or #3, putting them in the F4.

    Among #2 and #3 seeds to make the elite 8 (usually by knocking off the other #2/#3) under 50% win their next game, likely against a #1 seed.

    Why would #4 seeds in the E8 do better than #2 or #3 seeds in the E8?

    Maybe #4s are actually better than #2 or #3s. But #4s win far fewer games in the R64, R32, or S16.

    I think it's more likely that matching up against a likely #1 (the fate of a 2or3 in the E8) is much harder than matching up against a likely #2/#3 in the E8 (the fate of a #4 to advance).

    Seeds matter and predict results to a high degree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    I've read and heard this claim before, or variants of it (seeds don't matter, it's a crap shoot, it's a crap shoot after "X" round" ) and I've never been sure what the arguer is saying, since there's clear data that initial seeding is strongly correlated with performance at all rounds. Can you explain your point of view at all? I'm possibly just misunderstanding it, not trying to jump to negative conclusions.


    If you begin with the 2nd weekend (S16 column) and look at the rate at which teams keep winning:




    Of the original #1 and #2 seed playing the second weekend, well over 70% win their S16 game.
    Whereas of the original #3+ seed, less than 50% (usually much less) win their s16 game.

    Also, among #4 seeds to make the elite 8 (usually by knocking off the #1), 62% win their next game, likely against a #2 or #3, putting them in the F4.

    Among #2 and #3 seeds to make the elite 8 (usually by knocking off the other #2/#3) under 50% win their next game, likely against a #1 seed.

    Why would #4 seeds in the E8 do better than #2 or #3 seeds in the E8?

    Maybe #4s are actually better than #2 or #3s. But #4s win far fewer games in the R64, R32, or S16.

    I think it's more likely that matching up against a likely #1 (the fate of a 2or3 in the E8) is much harder than matching up against a likely #2/#3 in the E8 (the fate of a #4 to advance).

    Seeds matter and predict results to a high degree.
    Your data proves that the selection committee has done an excellent job with placing teams in the tournament. In effect, the best teams usually win. I believe it is a leap to conclude that teams advance in week two because of their path as opposed to simply giving them credit for being good.

    Gonzaga as a two seed would not face the one seed until elite eight. Gonzaga as a one seed would not face the two seed until elite eight. In both cases the seeding does not matter until second weekend. In both cases, losing before the elite eight means the team did not play to the level of their seed.
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    Six games before the NCAAs start. Seeds are enormously important. All I want is for the Zags to get the seed they earn. That is often not the case.

    Go Zags!!! As far as you can. One game at a time. Give it your best; I’ll accept the result.

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    One of Kansas or Baylor is going to lose at least one (maybe even two) more, why would we be #1 in the east as opposed to our next closest sites? Houston or Indy?

  22. #22
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    LTown you have a convincing argument!
    let the data speak for itself
    Last edited by ZagsGoZags; 02-18-2020 at 10:49 PM.

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