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Thread: A new era

  1. #1
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    Default A new era

    This probably belongs in the whelping box, but since it's not about any one specific recruit, I'm posting here. Feel free to move.

    A new era in Gonzaga basketball. A quick glance at 247 and we have 5 (FIVE) top 50 kids for 2021, who have already been on campus for a visit or have one scheduled.

    #2) Chet Holmgren - here for Craziness in the Kennel (with Suggs)
    #4) Paulo Banchero - Visited in Jan. 2020
    #12) Nathan Bittle - Visited 1/24/20
    #30) Peyton Watson - Scheduled visit this month
    #42) Hunter Sallis - Scheduled visit.

    This absolutely blows my mind. It wasn't that long ago when we would only have a few top 100 kids interested in Gonzaga. FIVE in the top 50. CRAZY.

    Hats off to the coaching staff. We continue to just keep getting better.

  2. #2
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    One and dones don't help the development of your program. They are here and then they are gone. Almost better to have very high four star players who are going to stick it out for at least two years, especially the Bigs. Look the other one and done schools like Kentucky, Duke and NC and you name it, rarely win the NCAA's. Yes I know UNC beat us for the Natl Championship and they probably fall in the rarely category. The present model we have is really good. Mix high four star recruits with excellent foreign talent and then senior transfers and we have had a consistent winner. Why change???

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    Quote Originally Posted by sheps001 View Post
    One and dones don't help the development of your program. They are here and then they are gone. Almost better to have very high four star players who are going to stick it out for at least two years, especially the Bigs. Look the other one and done schools like Kentucky, Duke and NC and you name it, rarely win the NCAA's. Yes I know UNC beat us for the Natl Championship and they probably fall in the rarely category. The present model we have is really good. Mix high four star recruits with excellent foreign talent and then senior transfers and we have had a consistent winner. Why change???
    Senior transfers are essentially a one and done.

    Also, if not for foul Collins getting in foul trouble, many say our one and done would have helped us win our first championship. I think a team built only of one and dones is tricky (kentucky), but you need to have some top 50 guys mixed in to consistently compete for a title.

    The why change argument is why so many businesses, etc die. You need to change and adapt. Is our foreign recruiting due to our brand, or does it disappear if Tommy leaves or retires some day? We need to have a well rounded approach, we can't just be like St. Marys who for so long relied on the Aussie pipeline without getting local talent. It brought them some strong years, but not sustainable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sheps001 View Post
    One and dones don't help the development of your program. They are here and then they are gone. Almost better to have very high four star players who are going to stick it out for at least two years, especially the Bigs. Look the other one and done schools like Kentucky, Duke and NC and you name it, rarely win the NCAA's. Yes I know UNC beat us for the Natl Championship and they probably fall in the rarely category. The present model we have is really good. Mix high four star recruits with excellent foreign talent and then senior transfers and we have had a consistent winner. Why change???
    It is an extremely tough balance.

    I think that one star one and done a year, and then the high fours you discuss might be as close as we can get.

    TBH, that's kind of what we've been doing a little bit with the Euros coming that are mostly 4s or so just wanting that one year to polish, one to shine, and then go. We have only had one 5 star and he was a one and done, it seemed to work fine.

    But yes, it is tough.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
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    Under emergency conditions when 4 top scorers left last year, Few did a mighty job. We're in an era and culture now that has upended tradition based on money. One and dones such as senior transfers have done well here. think where we
    d be without Woolridge and Admon. But as freshman who are marked as one and done, I'd rather have kids to develop but also had lots of talent. That's just me though.

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    Even if we got all 5, there is a supporting cast that is clearly not going to be one and done, and a couple of them probably don't immediately develop into a lottery pick who stay another year for their own benefit. I think we shouldn't fear good talent being interested in our program. All I would fear is a Lonzo ball personality type.
    Krozman
    GU student 1996-2000
    Law Student 2000-2003

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagNut08 View Post
    we can't just be like St. Marys who for so long relied on the Aussie pipeline without getting local talent. It brought them some strong years, but not sustainable.
    It's my understanding that Eran Ganot was their assistant doing the recruiting in Australia, and he's now coaching at Hawaii, where they are starting to pick away at St. Mary's pipeline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sheps001 View Post
    One and dones don't help the development of your program. They are here and then they are gone. Almost better to have very high four star players who are going to stick it out for at least two years, especially the Bigs. Look the other one and done schools like Kentucky, Duke and NC and you name it, rarely win the NCAA's. Yes I know UNC beat us for the Natl Championship and they probably fall in the rarely category. The present model we have is really good. Mix high four star recruits with excellent foreign talent and then senior transfers and we have had a consistent winner. Why change???

    You are spot on.
    Think UDub

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    Quote Originally Posted by scrooner View Post
    It's my understanding that Eran Ganot was their assistant doing the recruiting in Australia, and he's now coaching at Hawaii, where they are starting to pick away at St. Mary's pipeline.
    That's some pretty big information. Would be interesting to see what St. Mary's would do if that pipeline were to dry up.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
    -Zach Norvell Jr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sheps001 View Post
    One and dones don't help the development of your program. They are here and then they are gone. Almost better to have very high four star players who are going to stick it out for at least two years, especially the Bigs. Look the other one and done schools like Kentucky, Duke and NC and you name it, rarely win the NCAA's. Yes I know UNC beat us for the Natl Championship and they probably fall in the rarely category. The present model we have is really good. Mix high four star recruits with excellent foreign talent and then senior transfers and we have had a consistent winner. Why change???
    The 2 schools built on one and done are Duke and Kentucky, they have each won a title that way, and both have had some disappointing years. UNC has not been built around the one and done, they have had some here and there, but for the most part four year players. The year they beat GU in the championship they started 2 seniors and 3 juniors with only 1 freshman playing double digit minutes. The best teams for the last several years seem to have a mix of veterans and top freshman. In the last 4 years 4 freshman have started the national championship out of 40. I think GU is doing it the right way, a mix of freshmen, upper classmen, foreign prospects, and transfers who just want to win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagNut08 View Post
    Senior transfers are essentially a one and done.

    Also, if not for foul Collins getting in foul trouble, many say our one and done would have helped us win our first championship. I think a team built only of one and dones is tricky (kentucky), but you need to have some top 50 guys mixed in to consistently compete for a title.

    The why change argument is why so many businesses, etc die. You need to change and adapt. Is our foreign recruiting due to our brand, or does it disappear if Tommy leaves or retires some day? We need to have a well rounded approach, we can't just be like St. Marys who for so long relied on the Aussie pipeline without getting local talent. It brought them some strong years, but not sustainable.
    I dont consider transfers the same as a one and done freshman. A lot of one and dones are there for 8 months because the NBA won't let them go straight from high school. They dont care about school and aren't really into team ball. Grad transfers have played college ball 3 years, graduated, and are looking to further their education and basketball development, and maybe having a winning experience they havent had.

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    Just my opinion, but one and dones are not good for college BB. Scholarships should be for 2+ year students. kids that want to go straight to pro, have no reason stealing a scholarship it is a waist of money and resources. Any school that rely upon them are forgetting that there job is to educate. not to funnel into NBA, or any other sport.
    a team of seniors is much more endearing to a fan base, than a team full of forgettable players because they did not stay long to develop.
    college=education

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    Gonzaga isnt likely to have a one and done program. 2-3 per year would be fine as long as we also have guys like Kispert, Tillie, Clarke, Hachimura.

    The one and done schools that fail (UW) are ones that make recruiting promises to get those players. Collins was under no impression that the program would hype him and make him the primary scorer. He was a great addition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyZag View Post
    This probably belongs in the whelping box, but since it's not about any one specific recruit, I'm posting here. Feel free to move.

    A new era in Gonzaga basketball. A quick glance at 247 and we have 5 (FIVE) top 50 kids for 2021, who have already been on campus for a visit or have one scheduled.

    #2) Chet Holmgren - here for Craziness in the Kennel (with Suggs)
    #4) Paulo Banchero - Visited in Jan. 2020
    #12) Nathan Bittle - Visited 1/24/20
    #30) Peyton Watson - Scheduled visit this month
    #42) Hunter Sallis - Scheduled visit.

    This absolutely blows my mind. It wasn't that long ago when we would only have a few top 100 kids interested in Gonzaga. FIVE in the top 50. CRAZY.

    Hats off to the coaching staff. We continue to just keep getting better.

    Rivals has all 5 in the top 20. As for one and dones, I’m pretty confident we could make that work.

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    If a young man is going to attend GU for only one year, I would just as soon that he comes in as a senior transfer with a boatload of D1 games under his belt.

    Better yet, come in as a junior and be forced to sit for a year and practice against the team and really learn the system. GU helped Brandon Clarke reach his maximum college potential this way.

    No doubt that GU is reaching elite status on the backs of transfers. Goss, Clarke, and just look at what the backcourt is doing this year.
    I miss Mike Hart

  16. #16
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    I don't know how many more 1-and-done's would want to come because of available minutes. If everyone stays, there probably wont be a grad transfer either.

    Watson
    Timme
    Ballo
    Arlauskas
    Zakharov
    Suggs
    Harris
    Strawther

    This is only if Ayayi and Petrusev leave. It's pretty crazy.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheps001 View Post
    One and dones don't help the development of your program. They are here and then they are gone. Almost better to have very high four star players who are going to stick it out for at least two years, especially the Bigs. Look the other one and done schools like Kentucky, Duke and NC and you name it, rarely win the NCAA's. Yes I know UNC beat us for the Natl Championship and they probably fall in the rarely category. The present model we have is really good. Mix high four star recruits with excellent foreign talent and then senior transfers and we have had a consistent winner. Why change???
    The year they beat us (17) they were a veteran team built around multiyear players who had been in the championship the year before and lost on a buzzer beater to Nova.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyZag View Post
    #2) Chet Holmgren - here for Craziness in the Kennel (with Suggs)
    #4) Paulo Banchero - Visited in Jan. 2020
    #12) Nathan Bittle - Visited 1/24/20
    #30) Peyton Watson - Scheduled visit this month
    #42) Hunter Sallis - Scheduled visit.
    The only player missing is Mason Landdeck.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=Unbiased;1503871]You are spot on.
    Think UDub[/QUOTE

  20. #20
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    Interesting and encouraging to see.

    Meanwhile Gonzaga is hanging Ammo's jersey at the USD game. Deservedly so.

    He was what--a two or three star?

    I'm proud of our continued effort in recruiting.

    But I'm way, way more proud of our accomplishments after the recruits we've had have been signed. We have produced way more five star college hoops players then we have recruited five star prospects. That's what I love about Gonzaga basketball as much as anything. It's like Bob Huggins said: we have a bunch of guys who know how to play basketball. Not the same thing necessarily as a bunch or 18-19 year old future lottery picks.
    Last edited by 229SintoZag; 02-10-2020 at 07:29 PM.

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    I disagree with one person's assessment of North Carolina. The only two programs in college basketball right now who base their entire recruiting operation on one and dones are Duke and Kentucky. Cole Anthony is the only one and done guy on the Heels roster. The Heels tend to recruit more like Kansas does. I know the Jayhawks have had some issues with the NCAA and so on, but for me, NCAA issues aside, they are the ideal model that GU should strive for. Self finds a core rotation of 3-4 year players, and then fits in one or maybe two one and doners. Ideally one. I guarantee you that Self wouldn't have won all those consecutive Big 12 titles if the core rotation wasn't based on experienced players like Sherron Collins and such.

    Always remember that not every so-called one and done player bolts for the pros. Just like no one expected Zach Collins to go after one year (one famous analyst, who shall remain nameless, told me that he felt Collins was overrated and shouldn't have made the Burger Boy squad when it was announced). Blake Griffin was a top 10 pick, but decided to return to Oklahoma to better his game. I could see Holmgren staying 2 seasons because no matter how gifted he is, he has to gain weight. He is stick thin. Also remember that not all of these big time players are going to say yes to Gonzaga. GU has gotten guys like Sallis for awhile. Same with Strawther and Harris. The real change is getting in the game with guys like Suggs and Holmgren. I am not counting on Banchero being a Zag, but just getting the dude on campus as a "inner city" Seattle recruit is big time.

    Folks, I remember a time when Fitz instructed the staff to stop recruiting any player who was offered by a Pac 10 school! Few had to plead with Fitz that GU could get better talent.

    In all due respect, if Adam Morrison had been a 6-8 wing his freshman year at Mead, he might not have played at Gonzaga. He might've been JJ Redick's teammate at Duke. He would've been a 5 star, McDonald's AA player. Gonzaga signed him as a 6-4 of 6-5 off guard. Leon Rice had to convince Few to offer him. But still, it does go to show that recruiting rankings aren't an exact science. I have talked to enough people by now who have told me that if Dominick Harris isn't one of the best 30 players in the 2020 class, they'd give their home away. He's being undervalued because of the Mobley brothers and the fact that he was a no name player for a couple of years at Pacifica Christian. Paul Biancardi on the night that Suggs chose Gonzaga said that Harris was playing as well any prep GUARD in the nation. A guy like that shouldn't be ranked in the high 50's.

  22. #22
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    CDC = More smart sh*t per line than just about anywhere. "Smart sh*t .99/lb by CDC"
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  23. #23
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    I'm waiting for Dom to join the Zags...loved his ferocious dunk over James Wiseman last year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
    I disagree with one person's assessment of North Carolina. The only two programs in college basketball right now who base their entire recruiting operation on one and dones are Duke and Kentucky. Cole Anthony is the only one and done guy on the Heels roster. The Heels tend to recruit more like Kansas does. I know the Jayhawks have had some issues with the NCAA and so on, but for me, NCAA issues aside, they are the ideal model that GU should strive for. Self finds a core rotation of 3-4 year players, and then fits in one or maybe two one and doners. Ideally one. I guarantee you that Self wouldn't have won all those consecutive Big 12 titles if the core rotation wasn't based on experienced players like Sherron Collins and such.

    Always remember that not every so-called one and done player bolts for the pros. Just like no one expected Zach Collins to go after one year (one famous analyst, who shall remain nameless, told me that he felt Collins was overrated and shouldn't have made the Burger Boy squad when it was announced). Blake Griffin was a top 10 pick, but decided to return to Oklahoma to better his game. I could see Holmgren staying 2 seasons because no matter how gifted he is, he has to gain weight. He is stick thin. Also remember that not all of these big time players are going to say yes to Gonzaga. GU has gotten guys like Sallis for awhile. Same with Strawther and Harris. The real change is getting in the game with guys like Suggs and Holmgren. I am not counting on Banchero being a Zag, but just getting the dude on campus as a "inner city" Seattle recruit is big time.

    Folks, I remember a time when Fitz instructed the staff to stop recruiting any player who was offered by a Pac 10 school! Few had to plead with Fitz that GU could get better talent.

    In all due respect, if Adam Morrison had been a 6-8 wing his freshman year at Mead, he might not have played at Gonzaga. He might've been JJ Redick's teammate at Duke. He would've been a 5 star, McDonald's AA player. Gonzaga signed him as a 6-4 of 6-5 off guard. Leon Rice had to convince Few to offer him. But still, it does go to show that recruiting rankings aren't an exact science. I have talked to enough people by now who have told me that if Dominick Harris isn't one of the best 30 players in the 2020 class, they'd give their home away. He's being undervalued because of the Mobley brothers and the fact that he was a no name player for a couple of years at Pacifica Christian. Paul Biancardi on the night that Suggs chose Gonzaga said that Harris was playing as well any prep GUARD in the nation. A guy like that shouldn't be ranked in the high 50's.
    Pardon my ignorance. I have a day job and can't follow this to know better. Who are the mobley brothers? How do they determine star rankings?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by krozman View Post
    I think we shouldn't fear good talent being interested in our program. All I would fear is a Lonzo ball personality type.
    I hope we steer clear of the Lonzo type as well. I believe Few would steer clear of that malady.

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