Playing Thru Injury ( Watson Done For Year )

[vandalzag]

The third leading cause of deaths in the United States are medical errors....John Hopkins Estimates that some 250,000 people die every year following doctor's orders. Other research has estimated 400,000....mistakes are made...

Mine own experience is that on 4 different occasions a specialist recommended surgery (back, heart, gall bladder, small intestine) but after consultation with the University of Washington and Swedish for second and/or third opinions.....it was determined that no operations were necessary.

When it comes to me or my family...trust but verify..... has been a prudent process

Carl was a expert in Law and had the ability to determine if any mistakes were made...iff there is any liability.....and he was aggressive in protecting peoples rights. and he was especially interested in athletes at Gonzaga.

It is always good to determine why something like this happened and if it could have been avoided ...maybe it could, maybe it couldn't...

Oh so you knowing nothing about the situation other than watching games, posting on the internet, and reading the press release are speculating that Anton's injury was mishandled and he should pursue civil litigation vs all involved. That is just brilliant especially since the outcome of the injury is not known. Are you predicting his shoulder will never heal? Are you able to extend your ability to diagnose beyond sport's inuries? Can we file a class action lawsuit as fans to recover damages caused by the loss of wins associated with Anton's inury? If you do pursue this suit should we include other injuries (Goss' Ankle, Stepp's knee and eye, Tillie's everything, Morrison's Diabetes)? Other than not playing sports games how does one avoid injury while playing games?

[Zagdawg]

Brenna Greene
@BrennaGreene_
· 11h
“Anton is one of the toughest guys I’ve coached. He’s battled through a lot, because he cares about this team. This is the right thing to do moving forward for his career, and he has a bright future with our program.”- Mark Few

[bartruff1]

Oh so you knowing nothing about the situation other than watching games, posting on the internet, and reading the press release are speculating that Anton's injury was mishandled and he should pursue civil litigation vs all involved. That is just brilliant especially since the outcome of the injury is not known. Are you predicting his shoulder will never heal? Are you able to extend your ability to diagnose beyond sport's inuries? Can we file a class action lawsuit as fans to recover damages caused by the loss of wins associated with Anton's inury? If you do pursue this suit should we include other injuries (Goss' Ankle, Stepp's knee and eye, Tillie's everything, Morrison's Diabetes)? Other than not playing sports games how does one avoid injury while playing games?

That is a incredibly ignorant and irresponsible statement....I am surprised...if it was me I would hire Perkins and Coie to find out what happened...

[Birddog]

Bart, your Maxey comment from the sidelines came across as a cheap shot to me.

[CB4]

This was the same thing with Tillie. He can play, he can't play now, he can play limited minutes here, a full game there, now he's out for the season and is getting surgery.

[bartruff1]

Bart, your Maxey comment from the sidelines came across as a cheap shot to me.

It wasn't intended...I knew Carl and he was always around the school and was a feisty advocate for the athletes and I suspect he would have been the first to ask....How did all of this happen ..to me that is a fair question...

As a aside , he also was largely responsible for Frank going to law school...

[mgadfly]

How did all of this happen ..to me that is a fair question...

Are there, outside of concussion cases, any actual instances where athletes have successfully sued a university for an injury where the university has continued to rehab the athlete, keep them on scholarship, and provide medical treatment?

I haven't looked at this issue in five or six years, but my memory of these cases is the real fight was about an athlete (usually in football) getting injured, the team's doctors underplaying the degree of the injury (allegedly), the season ending and the school cutting them loose and using the scholarships for new players without injuries. The fight was usually between the primary health insurance provider (the NCAA mandated schools verify all athletes had health insurance at the time) and the school for who should cover the expense now that the young man was no longer a player for the school (also, at that time the NCAA had a limit on the dollar amount of medical care it could provide a player, but I think I read somewhere that the cap was eliminated by the NCAA).

In this situation we have an injured player. But the team hasn't cut him and left him to fend for himself. Additionally, I imagine that Watson knows whether the doctors (his own or the university's) informed him there was a risk of re-injury. I don't know how hiring an attorney or a team of fantastic attorneys at $350 per hour each is going to answer that question for him. I'm betting his or GU's docs were above board with him and there is nothing to see here. And I don't think he needs to hire anyone to figure that out, as he knows what was communicated to him.

[TravelinZag]

Posts to this thread mostly miss the most important point. Anton displayed great guts and heart trying to play hurt, and with recovery has already proved his value to future Zag teams.

He deserves recognition, thanks and the warmest best wishes from all Zags. He will always be a Zag.

[Zagdawg]

Agree-- Anton worked hard and tried to work through it -- I am happy he is going to get the help he needs to get healthy-- trying to lobby for a lawsuit is a cheap shot to the program and the Zag family (too many closet lawyers looking to make a buck out there #BigPayday).

[Mr Vulture]

I think you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Anton hurt his shoulder early in the season and its just not stable enough to keep from continuing to pop out. He tried to brace it but it was still having issues as we all saw. It's pretty clear that everyone has decided it's in the best interests of Anton and his future to get it taken care of before it becomes a bigger problem.

As for the timeline, it depends on what is needed. If he is having surgery for a subluxation it can be a 2-3 months process as the muscles/tendons are repaired and strenghtened. If there is other damage, rotator cuff (unlikely) or labrum (possible) it would require a more invasive surgery and longer time line.

In the big picture, it really doesn't matter if Anton were to get a medical RS or not as it's highly unlikely he was a four year player anyway. I always viewed Anton as 2-3 year guy and I think that is still the case. Granted, he's probably going to be on the three year plan with this surgery.

Best wishes on a successful surgery and recovery for Anton.

[vandalzag]

Agree-- Anton worked hard and tried to work through it -- I am happy he is going to get the help he needs to get healthy-- trying to lobby for a lawsuit is a cheap shot to the program and the Zag family (too many closet lawyers looking to make a buck out there #BigPayday).

This sums it up. Anton should a ton of heart playing through it. Bartruff's post is complete garbarge.

[Spike#1]

From KHQ, nothing new, just wanted to share.

https://www.khq.com/news/gonzaga-fre...lKtqTVvTNrToJ8

[bartruff1]

No one, certainly not me, is questioning Watson's courage…...no one is questioning Gonzaga's intentions....those are red herrings.....I am not lobbing for a lawsuit......I am only saying what I would do....I would find out why this happened the way it did...……….

As a parent I went through a very similar experience....and after exhausting all resources the decision was made to have the boy have surgery after the competition was over …..

I know a couple partners at Perkins and they are very experienced at finding out the truth with assistance of resources like AMFS....

I really don't care what any of you think....and I am done with this matter….

[ZagsObserver]

No one, certainly not me, is questioning Watson's courage…...no one is questioning Gonzaga's intentions....those are red herrings.....I am not lobbing for a lawsuit......I am only saying what I would do....I would find out why this happened the way it did...……….

As a parent I went through a very similar experience....and after exhausting all resources the decision was made to have the boy have surgery after the competition was over …..

I know a couple partners at Perkins and they are very experienced at finding out the truth with assistance of resources like AMFS....

I really don't care what any of you think....and I am done with this matter….

The lawyers at Perkins have a lot of experience at creating a narrative that produces a settlement, attempting to create just enough doubt to bring parties to the negotiating table.

Let’s not pretend that they or Maxey are interested in truth and beauty. They are advocating for their bank accounts, not the athletes.

[Markburn1]

I'm confident that there was no intent from the Gonzaga staff to put a kid at risk just to win a few ballgames. However, even with the best intentions, mistakes can be made. If you were the parent you would surely want to know every scrap of information you could get your hands on. I'm guessing there is a near 100% chance that nothing was done to put Anton at risk.

I'm with bart here. There is nothing nefarious about gathering facts. It's in the best interests of the player and the University. Again, it is a near certainty that the Gonzaga staff did everything in the interests of Anton and if an investigation is done the University will likely be commended for the way they handled this young man's health.

P.S. If Anton and his parents are satisfied at this juncture that everything is copasetic, then there is no reason to take it further.

[billyberu]

Posts to this thread mostly miss the most important point. Anton displayed great guts and heart trying to play hurt, and with recovery has already proved his value to future Zag teams.

He deserves recognition, thanks and the warmest best wishes from all Zags. He will always be a Zag.

Exactly. I'm sure Anton was more than willing to play through the discomfort of repeatedly having his shoulder dislocated. While his recovery is no guarantee, orthopedic surgery is quite advanced these days.

I'm living proof.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[ZagsObserver]

I'm confident that there was no intent from the Gonzaga staff to put a kid at risk just to win a few ballgames. However, even with the best intentions, mistakes can be made. If you were the parent you would surely want to know every scrap of information you could get your hands on. I'm guessing there is a near 100% chance that nothing was done to put Anton at risk.

I'm with bart here. There is nothing nefarious about gathering facts. It's in the best interests of the player and the University. Again, it is a near certainty that the Gonzaga staff did everything in the interests of Anton and if an investigation is done the University will likely be commended for the way they handled this young man's health.

Only that’s not how these things work. They’ll try to dig up a few words in emails or interviews here and there to support the narrative. They’ll find a few other players on different squads which had different recovery plans (never mind that other similarly situated athletes may have had similar approaches as GU‘a). It’s very easy to judge an outcome after-the-fact.

It’s never about simply learning. It’s about trying to determine whether there’s enough to go on to get a settlement.

[Markburn1]

Only that’s not how these things work. They’ll try to dig up a few words in emails or interviews here and there to support the narrative. They’ll find a few other players on different squads which had different recovery plans (never mind that other similarly situated athletes may have had similar approaches as GU‘a). It’s very easy to judge an outcome after-the-fact.

It’s never about simply learning. It’s about trying to determine whether there’s enough to go on to get a settlement.

Still with bart. The only thing I would say is that this forum is a poor choice for this discussion.

[Mantua]

Didn't Josh have his surgery in March? He was still not fully recovered by the end of October at the start of the new season. I hope Anton gets it done asap because it is a slow process. Those first 2 months are a combination of hell and torture.

Go Zags!

I was thinking about a friend’s and Kelly Olynyk’s recovery time in addition to Josh’s.

I don’t implicitly trust doctors. I’ve heard about and witnessed their errors in judgement many times and very often it’s a failure to pursue treatment quickly enough which is also a failure due to the actions of insurance companies who love to drag out palliative treatment. Although misdiagnosis and a lack of any diagnosis are fairly common too, I doubt whether that is the case with most shoulder injuries.

Anton is a tough kid, but he is going to need a lot of support.

[vandalzag]

Still with bart. The only thing I would say is that this forum is a poor choice for this discussion.

Sorry but suggesting there are issues or mistakes were made with ZERO knowledge of the situation is flat out stupid and irresponsible. I hope I don't get sued for saying this.

[Markburn1]

Sorry but suggesting there are issues or mistakes were made with ZERO knowledge of the situation is flat out stupid and irresponsible. I hope I don't get sued for saying this.

I know you are dug in here, vandal, but consider this.

Bart never suggested mistakes were made. He suggested that the possibility of mistakes were there and it would be in everybody's interest to find out what happened with this young man's health and subsequent care. I know this seems to be a trivial difference, but it really isn't.

[ZagsObserver]

It’s not black and white. One professional opinion says this, another says that. Bringing in an attorney will try to paint one in a positive manner, and the other school of thought in the reverse. That’s their job, at least as they perceive it. I deal with attorneys weekly, if not daily. I’ve dealt with Perkins.

This will be my last post on the matter.

[Hooray4Daye&Gray]

The conversation this thread has become is ridiculous.

Thank you, Anton, for being a great addition to the Zag family this year. Looking forward to having you on the floor next year on what will be an incredible team. I know you'll be ready to hunt.

[LongIslandZagFan]

this thread was a poor choice... yes.

Anton is a Spokane kid... so if anyone here actually thinks that the staff wasn't working in concert with his family, I think it borders on silly.

[RenoZag]

Jim Meehan reports Watson had his shoulder surgery on Wednesday 1.22 and will not be at tonight's game.