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Thread: Post - Game Thoughts & Observations: EWU

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post

    Watson went from looking elite in the first few games to downright pedestrian now. I hope the elite version emerges healthy in 2020!
    Geez, give the guy a break. He has been coming off an injury. Sheesh.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by katman50 View Post
    Geez, give the guy a break. He has been coming off an injury. Sheesh.
    He was slipping a bit even before the injury, if memory serves. Always a reluctant shooter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    He was slipping a bit even before the injury, if memory serves. Always a reluctant shooter.
    He's a freshman for gosh sakes, who has only played a few games while healthy. Nitpicking time I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    He was never a true 5 star recruit. Around 40-50 on every service, and was noted for his lack of strength and athleticism.
    According to "GoshZagIt" - Timme was a 5* recruit for a few months about a year ago according to rivals. The rest of his time, his final rating, and other rating agencies had him as a 4*. See the bottom of this recent page.

    My bigger question - which I was never able to answer via google, and which I still want to know, is how does 247sports, ESPN, or Rivals define/divide the star ratings of high school BB recruits. I can't find what 5* or 4* actually means.
    Last edited by LTownZag; 12-21-2019 at 10:04 PM.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by katman50 View Post
    Geez, give the guy a break. He has been coming off an injury. Sheesh.
    Give him a break? I am pointing out that when he was healthy. Anton looked elite. And now, after ankle and shoulder injuries, he doesn't. Then I note my hope for his recovery and return to form.

    I'm genuinely confused about how this is sentiment you are taking issue with and finding problematic or discouraging someone from writing.

    If the post-game thread is only for hopes and dreams and positive sunny reactions, it should be renamed.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    According to "GoZags" - Timme was a 5* recruit ...
    I'm hopeful you're referring to the website, which is actually gozags.com. While I like Drew (a lot), I don't recall popping off about him as a recruit. Ever.

    “To be continued …”. Fr Tony Lehman, SJ
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
    I'm hopeful you're referring to the website, which is actually gozags.com. While I like Drew (a lot), I don't recall popping off about him as a recruit. Ever.
    You and popping off aren’t even in the same dictionary, GZ.

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    Impressed Zags came out ready to go and put this game out of reach early. I for one was worried about this game. Time to stop doubting these guys.

    All the wailing and gnashing of teeth about quality of play once Zags were up by 20 vs inferior opponent is kind of nauseating. These are 18-22 year olds not robots. Zags will be #1 in country (yes, Buckeyes w nice W vs Kentucky but comes after losing to Minnesota earlier this week) yet apparently not good enough for many fans here. Good grief.

    Great seeing Gilder stroking it.

    Watson playing w one arm it seemed. I’m very surprised he doesn’t decide to shut it down, get it surgically repaired and rehab for 2020-21 season. Anton has a bright hoops future but not if that shoulder doesn’t get back to 100%.
    Even though I care a lot about my basketball opinions, they are like comparing a bicycle to a championship motorcycle who is our coach. . ZagsGoZags

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    Give him a break? I am pointing out that when he was healthy. Anton looked elite. And now, after ankle and shoulder injuries, he doesn't. Then I note my hope for his recovery and return to form.

    I'm genuinely confused about how this is sentiment you are taking issue with and finding problematic or discouraging someone from writing.

    If the post-game thread is only for hopes and dreams and positive sunny reactions, it should be renamed.
    I think you’re finally getting it, L town.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SorenTodd45 View Post
    I wish Marty got more playing time. I'm digging his spiky blond haircut, I wear mine the same way. But again, there must be something in practice that is keeping him on the bench. There's always next year though.
    Not the haircut?

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    I hope we continue to play Eastern rather than some team from the Southeast.....they were only outscored by about a half dozen in the second half... I expect they will be in the NCAA Tournament.....thank you Coach Few for a game with some local interest and keeping the money in the Spokane Area....

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    Quote Originally Posted by GonzaGAW View Post
    - agree!
    I think that that is absurd.

    I will say that Jazz berated Timme's paltry 1 board last game and he had 9 today, so...let's just hope Jazz can keep his negativity up!
    I'm laughing. Why aren't you?

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
    I'm hopeful you're referring to the website, which is actually gozags.com. While I like Drew (a lot), I don't recall popping off about him as a recruit. Ever.
    My mistake and apologies. It was the user "GoshZagIt" at the link posted above.

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    Game was a little chippy tonight and there was some talking going on among the players. There was a lot of physical play, especially under the basket. Officiating hit a new low in terms of quality of the calls and the officials working the game. Thought Fewie was going to have a stroke at one point - haven’t seen him work officials that hard in a long time. The worst had to have been the phantom foul called on Flip. Replayed clearly showed he did not contact the Eastern player during the course of the play. One of the few really strong crowd reactions. To tell you had bad it was there were 19 fouls called in the first half and something like 24-25 in the second half. Kispert had 4 and I believe Tillie had 3.

    If I were Few I would really reconsider playing Eastern again. There is no upside to playing Eastern other than making Spokane fans a little happy but there is a larger downside, especially if someone gets hurt in a chippy, meaningless game. I would rather we play WSU since there is always an upside to playing a PAC 12 team (you know - the “Conference of Champions”) vs. a Big Sky team, although I really am a fan of a number of Big Sky teams.

    On a different note, I don’t understand keyboard rangers bashing players or even being critical of them. I lived through this crap with my oldest son who was a DI football player and have seen the effects on friends whose children were DI baseball and basketball players, some at well-known universities. I can tell you it hurts. As a parent, you already feel bad because your son or daughter didn’t have the best game, didn’t demonstrate what they could do. And you think about all the hard work and effort you know they put out, and you know just how bad they feel. Then you read some poster or posters really uninformed, negative opinion about your son or daughter and their effort in a game. When you do, you wonder is this the person who was never picked for a team; the person who was cut from their 9th grade team; who never played beyond high school; or played so long ago they have no idea the skill, strength, quickness, and the intellectual capacity it takes to play at the DI level.

    I have never met an athlete who gets up out of bed on game day and says I am really going to suck today or I am really going to dog it or play sloppy, not hustle, etc. You just don’t get to the DI level by doing that, much less to the elite level where we find Gonzaga today in both the men’s and women’s program. Sure, some players have off games - no one can be 100% all the time. Think about it in your job - are you always giving a 100%? Doubt it. And when your screwing the pooch at work, does someone call you out on a public forum?

    These young men and young women are elite athletes - far more gifted, talented, hardworking and dedicated than any poster on this board ever was, will be or could be. Period. Dead stop. I know it’s a cultural value to tear down that which is good and the efforts of others in order to make ourselves feel better. And I’ve heard all the arguments about posters rights and that somehow because these young men or women have a scholarship they are fair game for the keyboard critics. But leave that to the political arena and cut the crap. Who really cares if they are a “5 star” or “4 star” recruit- it’s irrelevant because they are now a Zag. And in 10 years, it won’t be worth anymore than a mere memory and besides, some of you apparently believe in the axiom the older you get, the better you were so they will all be “5 star” recruits by then. Instead, praise our players when they have outstanding games and lift them up when things don’t go as well. You can bet that’s what Few and his staff do, and based on their collective record, I think they know far more about this process than any poster imagines they do.

  15. #40
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    Richard Fox: What kind of music do you like?
    Heister: I like John Denver.

    ***full stop***

    A couple of things:
    1. I didn’t know John Denver was a musical genre.
    2. “Take Me Home, Country Roads” is a great song to sing karaoke to
    3. Is there anyone else out there that only likes one musical performer/group at the expense of any and all others in the history of western civilization? (No negativity here, just curious if this commonplace)
    4. Rob Sacre is fun to have around

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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    [speculation] Zakharov is worse at rebounding, has fewer posts moves, maybe worse on defense? maybe worse ball handler? less overall years and time in the game so more easily flustered right now?[/speculation]
    Gee whiz, that could be the reason lol

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by AirborneJag View Post
    Game was a little chippy tonight and there was some talking going on among the players. There was a lot of physical play, especially under the basket. Officiating hit a new low in terms of quality of the calls and the officials working the game. Thought Fewie was going to have a stroke at one point - haven’t seen him work officials that hard in a long time. The worst had to have been the phantom foul called on Flip. Replayed clearly showed he did not contact the Eastern player during the course of the play. One of the few really strong crowd reactions. To tell you had bad it was there were 19 fouls called in the first half and something like 24-25 in the second half. Kispert had 4 and I believe Tillie had 3.

    If I were Few I would really reconsider playing Eastern again. There is no upside to playing Eastern other than making Spokane fans a little happy but there is a larger downside, especially if someone gets hurt in a chippy, meaningless game. I would rather we play WSU since there is always an upside to playing a PAC 12 team (you know - the “Conference of Champions”) vs. a Big Sky team, although I really am a fan of a number of Big Sky teams.

    On a different note, I don’t understand keyboard rangers bashing players or even being critical of them. I lived through this crap with my oldest son who was a DI football player and have seen the effects on friends whose children were DI baseball and basketball players, some at well-known universities. I can tell you it hurts. As a parent, you already feel bad because your son or daughter didn’t have the best game, didn’t demonstrate what they could do. And you think about all the hard work and effort you know they put out, and you know just how bad they feel. Then you read some poster or posters really uninformed, negative opinion about your son or daughter and their effort in a game. When you do, you wonder is this the person who was never picked for a team; the person who was cut from their 9th grade team; who never played beyond high school; or played so long ago they have no idea the skill, strength, quickness, and the intellectual capacity it takes to play at the DI level.

    I have never met an athlete who gets up out of bed on game day and says I am really going to suck today or I am really going to dog it or play sloppy, not hustle, etc. You just don’t get to the DI level by doing that, much less to the elite level where we find Gonzaga today in both the men’s and women’s program. Sure, some players have off games - no one can be 100% all the time. Think about it in your job - are you always giving a 100%? Doubt it. And when your screwing the pooch at work, does someone call you out on a public forum?

    These young men and young women are elite athletes - far more gifted, talented, hardworking and dedicated than any poster on this board ever was, will be or could be. Period. Dead stop. I know it’s a cultural value to tear down that which is good and the efforts of others in order to make ourselves feel better. And I’ve heard all the arguments about posters rights and that somehow because these young men or women have a scholarship they are fair game for the keyboard critics. But leave that to the political arena and cut the crap. Who really cares if they are a “5 star” or “4 star” recruit- it’s irrelevant because they are now a Zag. And in 10 years, it won’t be worth anymore than a mere memory and besides, some of you apparently believe in the axiom the older you get, the better you were so they will all be “5 star” recruits by then. Instead, praise our players when they have outstanding games and lift them up when things don’t go as well. You can bet that’s what Few and his staff do, and based on their collective record, I think they know far more about this process than any poster imagines they do.
    Well said!
    One of the greatest stories in basketball history...Gonzaga!

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by LouisianaZag View Post
    Gee whiz, that could be the reason lol
    That could be the reason for what? I never said directly or implied (nor do I think) that Zakharov should be getting more playing time currently than he is getting.


    The post-game observation, to my untrained novice eye, is that Zakharov is a better medium-term prospect than Timme, and that "medium term" could be as soon as 12 months from now. I'm rooting for obht of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by AirborneJag View Post
    I don’t understand keyboard rangers bashing players or even being critical of them. I lived through this crap with my oldest son who was a DI football player and have seen the effects on friends whose children were DI baseball and basketball players, some at well-known universities. I can tell you it hurts. As a parent, you already feel bad because your son or daughter didn’t have the best game, didn’t demonstrate what they could do. And you think about all the hard work and effort you know they put out, and you know just how bad they feel. Then you read some poster or posters really uninformed, negative opinion about your son or daughter and their effort in a game. When you do, you wonder is this the person who was never picked for a team; the person who was cut from their 9th grade team; who never played beyond high school; or played so long ago they have no idea the skill, strength, quickness, and the intellectual capacity it takes to play at the DI level.

    I have never met an athlete who gets up out of bed on game day and says I am really going to suck today or I am really going to dog it or play sloppy, not hustle, etc. You just don’t get to the DI level by doing that, much less to the elite level where we find Gonzaga today in both the men’s and women’s program. Sure, some players have off games - no one can be 100% all the time. Think about it in your job - are you always giving a 100%? Doubt it. And when your screwing the pooch at work, does someone call you out on a public forum?

    These young men and young women are elite athletes - far more gifted, talented, hardworking and dedicated than any poster on this board ever was, will be or could be. Period. Dead stop. I know it’s a cultural value to tear down that which is good and the efforts of others in order to make ourselves feel better. And I’ve heard all the arguments about posters rights and that somehow because these young men or women have a scholarship they are fair game for the keyboard critics. But leave that to the political arena and cut the crap. Who really cares if they are a “5 star” or “4 star” recruit- it’s irrelevant because they are now a Zag.
    If we were talking high schooler or HS sports, I would agree completely.

    For these guys who are (at least by most laws) legal adults competing in a top-10 internationally relevant division 1 bigtime program, all with near future professional ambitions, I think reasonable and reality-based criticism can be fair and appropriate, and makes the forum posts more than virtual applause buttons. Otherwise the implication is that criticism of the coaches, staff, and older program persons is OK but not the players due to some kind of age restrictions. How far would this kind of social prohibition go? Would one be allowed to ever predict a Zags loss, or is that also overly critical of the players? Often the negative-sounding observations aren't even what ought fairly be called "criticism." (Watson looks tentative and injured still, for example) or a discussion and research over a recruit's HS ranking is relevant for more fairly understanding and judging how we should see the play of a new GU freshman (it would generally be unrealistic and unfair to expect 5* freshman performances from 3* prospects).
    Last edited by LTownZag; 12-21-2019 at 10:50 PM.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by AirborneJag View Post
    Game was a little chippy tonight and there was some talking going on among the players. There was a lot of physical play, especially under the basket. Officiating hit a new low in terms of quality of the calls and the officials working the game. Thought Fewie was going to have a stroke at one point - haven’t seen him work officials that hard in a long time. The worst had to have been the phantom foul called on Flip. Replayed clearly showed he did not contact the Eastern player during the course of the play. One of the few really strong crowd reactions. To tell you had bad it was there were 19 fouls called in the first half and something like 24-25 in the second half. Kispert had 4 and I believe Tillie had 3.

    If I were Few I would really reconsider playing Eastern again. There is no upside to playing Eastern other than making Spokane fans a little happy but there is a larger downside, especially if someone gets hurt in a chippy, meaningless game. I would rather we play WSU since there is always an upside to playing a PAC 12 team (you know - the “Conference of Champions”) vs. a Big Sky team, although I really am a fan of a number of Big Sky teams.

    On a different note, I don’t understand keyboard rangers bashing players or even being critical of them. I lived through this crap with my oldest son who was a DI football player and have seen the effects on friends whose children were DI baseball and basketball players, some at well-known universities. I can tell you it hurts. As a parent, you already feel bad because your son or daughter didn’t have the best game, didn’t demonstrate what they could do. And you think about all the hard work and effort you know they put out, and you know just how bad they feel. Then you read some poster or posters really uninformed, negative opinion about your son or daughter and their effort in a game. When you do, you wonder is this the person who was never picked for a team; the person who was cut from their 9th grade team; who never played beyond high school; or played so long ago they have no idea the skill, strength, quickness, and the intellectual capacity it takes to play at the DI level.

    I have never met an athlete who gets up out of bed on game day and says I am really going to suck today or I am really going to dog it or play sloppy, not hustle, etc. You just don’t get to the DI level by doing that, much less to the elite level where we find Gonzaga today in both the men’s and women’s program. Sure, some players have off games - no one can be 100% all the time. Think about it in your job - are you always giving a 100%? Doubt it. And when your screwing the pooch at work, does someone call you out on a public forum?

    These young men and young women are elite athletes - far more gifted, talented, hardworking and dedicated than any poster on this board ever was, will be or could be. Period. Dead stop. I know it’s a cultural value to tear down that which is good and the efforts of others in order to make ourselves feel better. And I’ve heard all the arguments about posters rights and that somehow because these young men or women have a scholarship they are fair game for the keyboard critics. But leave that to the political arena and cut the crap. Who really cares if they are a “5 star” or “4 star” recruit- it’s irrelevant because they are now a Zag. And in 10 years, it won’t be worth anymore than a mere memory and besides, some of you apparently believe in the axiom the older you get, the better you were so they will all be “5 star” recruits by then. Instead, praise our players when they have outstanding games and lift them up when things don’t go as well. You can bet that’s what Few and his staff do, and based on their collective record, I think they know far more about this process than any poster imagines they do.
    Great post, Airborne! No need for me to add to it, to the unmitigated joy of those bored with my observations.

    The treatment of Drew mirrors that of Corey. Very few players make an immediate impact as freshman...it's a huge leap from HS to Division I hoops. Filip's growth from last year has been astounding, and I think we'll see the same growth out of Drew in 12 months, if not earlier...say around March.

  20. #45
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    Timme isn't going anywhere and will probably earn more minutes. He has been an efficient scorer that takes a good percentage of the shots while on the court. He draws fouls at a high rate. He is our second best rebounder statistically (or maybe Joel is and he is third). His block percentage is second highest on the team. He takes care of the ball pretty well. Outside of his atrocious free throw shooting (that merely looks slightly below average on this squad), his stats put him as our #2 contributor on Ken Pom (for efficiency). So ... the stat test isn't going to get him displaced at all. He's playing like a 4.5 star recruit and getting that type of production isn't a guarantee from anyone.

    And as far as the eye test goes, I think he's looked about what the stats say about him. He works hard, he puts the opponent in a bad position, and is big enough and athletic enough to make things happen. I don't like the comparison to Mallon because he is a lot more athletic than Mallon was and has every bit of the skill. He has yet to show the as good of shooting from the charity stripe where Mallon was decent and he won't take a three pointer (like Mallon would occasionally do).


    As for the game, I thought he looked pretty good tonight. 8 points, 9 rebounds and 3 assists in 17 minutes. That's the per 30 (or starter's) equivalent of a 14 point, 16 rebound and 5 assist night. Do we really need to complain about that?

    The team looked great. Again. I'm still not sold on them being a top 10 team, but I have to admit that they've done everything (except beat Michigan) possible to prove otherwise. They are really clicking right now.

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    Felt like an odd game. Eagles like to chuck it up but had some trouble with that tonight.

    It seems to me you can see some lingering injuries in some of the guys. Glad Watson got out there.

    Timme does some things away from the ball that are good, on both ends. He reminds me a bit of Kelly O, to be honest. Freshman Kelly. A bit of Bambi on the ice at times. Bigger guys like that take longer to come into their own, I have noticed.

    The best players waste no energy and waste no movements. It’s jarring at times to see some of these guys flailing all over. We have been spoiled recently, great 4’s5/‘s.

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    I think it might take time for Timme to take full advantage of his skill set, which seems to be less about size and athleticism than it is about his motor, feel, passing, dribbling, and shot-making. His footwork is unorthodox (to me, at least) but his ball goes into the hoop. In his HS videos, he displayed good ball-handling and looked way better than the other people with which he shared the court. Others here who watched him play raved about his motor to the ball and his passing. I think he is good now but expect him to be very good next year, or maybe even by the end of this year. Granted, the athleticism was there from the start, but Zach Collins was outmatched physically and let himself get pushed under the basket when boxing out early on. He improved over the course of the year and was arguably the best player on the court in the National Championship game. I think it is too early to criticize Timme's 5-star ranking.

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    Arlauskas and Big Z need to take Watson's minutes until he's healthy. I'm not sure if/when that happens this year, but he's incredibly tentative out there.

    Super happy to see the team dominate Eastern.

    Gilder has really been playing better lately. We need his long range shooting.

    Once again a game with Eastern got chippy. Happy to escape with no injuries, and I'll be happy if we never play them again.

    Ayayi and Woolridge took way too many shots today. I almost feel like it's becoming a little trend with Joel to take ill advised 3's since his huge late three at Washington, but I don't have the stats to prove it. Just don't super like the eye test on his shot selection right now.

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    Gonzaga's playing really well right now. I don't know about you all, but I love watching the basketball go through the basket, and especially from beyond the 3 point line. It's been nice to see the 3 point shooting coming around the last two games. AND today we shot 75% from the foul line. Nice to see the team working on that. I am totally impressed with our bench play. Both Gilder and Timme get better each game. 8 points and 9 boards is just fantastic for a post player coming off the bench. I have no complaints about Timme at all. I KNOW Mark Few is happy with his play. Otherwise he wouldn't be out there playing. His toughness is what I like most about him. AND if I knew him better and watched practices I'd probably say I love his work ethic. He's only a freshman, my God! I guarantee you he will not look like the same player in two years. Zakharov will move into Timme's role next year and Timme will become a starter. Just my opinion.

    As you should know I also love to see great passing and GU certainly has that. You can't score 112 points without it. Eastern is NOT as bad as the score would indicate. The Zags are just playing with a lot of confidence right now. AND THAT'S good to see. AT LEAST FOR ME.

    Go Zags!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    That could be the reason for what? I never said directly or implied (nor do I think) that Zakharov should be getting more playing time currently than he is getting.


    The post-game observation, to my untrained novice eye, is that Zakharov is a better medium-term prospect than Timme, and that "medium term" could be as soon as 12 months from now. I'm rooting for obht of them.



    If we were talking high schooler or HS sports, I would agree completely.

    For these guys who are (at least by most laws) legal adults competing in a top-10 internationally relevant division 1 bigtime program, all with near future professional ambitions, I think reasonable and reality-based criticism can be fair and appropriate, and makes the forum posts more than virtual applause buttons. Otherwise the implication is that criticism of the coaches, staff, and older program persons is OK but not the players due to some kind of age restrictions. How far would this kind of social prohibition go? Would one be allowed to ever predict a Zags loss, or is that also overly critical of the players? Often the negative-sounding observations aren't even what ought fairly be called "criticism." (Watson looks tentative and injured still, for example) or a discussion and research over a recruit's HS ranking is relevant for more fairly understanding and judging how we should see the play of a new GU freshman (it would generally be unrealistic and unfair to expect 5* freshman performances from 3* prospects).
    Thank you LTZ. I would also add regardless if you agree w a post on a public forum, such commentary in some form or another is what any professional athlete will face. Zags athletes and families may as well think of it as part of the education they are receiving. Better to experience it and learn to deal with it while still in college cause it’s gonna be there if you play professionally regardless.
    Even though I care a lot about my basketball opinions, they are like comparing a bicycle to a championship motorcycle who is our coach. . ZagsGoZags

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