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Thread: Gonzaga vs North Carolina post game analysis and feelings

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    Not mine.

    I just believe that a fan of a team will say something good about it once in a while. Not be negative 90% of the time...or more.

    If others hadn't vouched for him, he would be a troll.
    Look. I'm not here to defend Jazz. He's a big boy. I just disagree with your premise regarding negative posts.

    I don't agree with Jazz on some of the posts that you listed, but all of them are defensible.

    I disagree that Cole Anthony would have made that much of a difference. I've watched every game he has played and Few and the coaching staff would have implemented an entirely different game plan had he played. Cole is UNC's number one, two and three options when he is on the floor. He averages 17 shots a game and shoots 37% overall. Most of them are heavily contested because it didn't take opposing coaches long to figure out that the rest of the team couldn't get the ball wet from the beach with an incoming tide. Cole will be much better in the NBA when he plays with a couple guys that can actually shoot. The GU staff would have harassed that kid no end keeping a hand in his face and forcing him to give up the ball to the players you saw last night building brick outhouses.

    Most of the other posts concerned Timme's sketchy performance last night. I guarantee you Drew knows he is capable of much more, the staff knows and so does his mom (Hi mom). That's why he came to Gonzaga. To get the proper instruction and to get better. Not to be told how great he is when he didn't perform up to expectations. One rebound in eighteen minutes will definitely raise a flag with the staff. However, the game plan was to keep UNC off the offensive boards and if you watched the Zags bigs last night they were primarily engaged in getting a body on the Heel's bigs. Hence, the guards, especially Ayayi were able to dive down the lane to secure defensive rebounds. And Ayayi is really good at it. My concern is that Timme didn't and hasn't to date produced some offensive rebounds. His motor is what was intriguing during his recruitment and I'd like to see more of it. But, once again, one has to take into account the game plan. The only way UNC was going to score consistently was to get out on the break and I'm pretty sure the coaching staff implored everybody to get back on defense as quickly as possible thus limiting the offensive rebounding game. Drew is going to get better. He will be a force eventually, but it's entirely defensible to point out he isn't up to five star standards at this point. Then again, neither is Bacot.

    As for leaving the starters in and not continuing to attack, what's the point? It's hard to argue that putting in a couple reserves to run the offense for twenty seconds at a time would have altered the outcome much. If Few is going to leave the starters in, keep doing what built the twenty point lead and close it out.

    And for the last time (I hope) insinuating that jazz isn't a true Zag fan is crazy talk. He wouldn't be on here every day pointing out how the Zags could improve if he wasn't a fan down to his marrow. Some of you just need to figure out that he approaches it in a different way than you might. I get the rah rah fanatic stuff but there is more than one side of the story.






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  2. #77
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    Markburn1,

    First off agree with the entirety of your post. Jazz wouldn't be here posting every day if he wasn't a "real" fan.

    I'll take it a step further and say I'd love Jazz and Spy to get together for a weekly "Devil's Advocate" thread, where we all post our Gonzaga pipe dreams and they bring us back to reality. We need dreamers on this site just the same as we need pragmatists.
    Last edited by ZagSwag; 12-19-2019 at 10:58 AM. Reason: I don't know how to quote a previous post ha

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagSwag View Post
    Markburn1,

    First off agree with the entirety of your post. Jazz wouldn't be here posting every day if he wasn't a "real" fan.

    I'll take it a step further and say I'd love Jazz and Spy to get together for a weekly "Devil's Advocate" thread, where we all post our Gonzaga pipe dreams and they bring us back to reality. We need dreamers on this site just the same as we need pragmatists.
    Thanks but I fear that Spy sleeps with the fishes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goshzagit View Post
    He was rated a 5* for around 3 or 4 months last fall/winter until Rivals released their final rankings in the spring which lowered him to 4*, Top 40 recruit.

    Also, nearly every announcer has referred to him as "5 star recruit", and if you check nearly every Spokane-based news story written last year (namely SWX), mentions him as such as well. And the Gozags website as you mention

    Even Illinois athletics listed him as 5*

    https://illinois.rivals.com/news/ill...man-drew-timme

    Here is a Rivals article about the 5 star Drew Timme committing to us:

    https://basketballrecruiting.rivals....es-for-gonzaga

    They initially had him ranked 4* before his Senior season, yet following the summer circuit they bumped him to 5* that Fall for a few months, and every article ran from November through January, discussing his recruitment listed him as 5*.

    I guess you could say it's not his most "up to date" ranking, but far from "fiction" as you claim.
    Thanks!

    I spent some time looking for Rivals or 247 or ESPN's internal definition of 4* vs 5* or 3* and couldn't find it for basketball.

    Sounds like it is something like top-30 nationally, or maybe top 9 by position? In either case, but especially the later, one's rating really depends upon the national quality of the players that position/year.

    If you have any clue how those evaluators parameterize their ratings, please post it.

    For clarity and honesty/reality of expectations, I'd call a player with Drew's ratings to be a 4* prospect, as he was a 4* for the majority of his ratings years, and a 4* at the end of it as well. He seems like a great guy and I'm glad he's a zag. Go Drew!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagSwag View Post
    Markburn1,

    First off agree with the entirety of your post. Jazz wouldn't be here posting every day if he wasn't a "real" fan.

    I'll take it a step further and say I'd love Jazz and Spy to get together for a weekly "Devil's Advocate" thread, where we all post our Gonzaga pipe dreams and they bring us back to reality. We need dreamers on this site just the same as we need pragmatists.
    Jazz can say some off the wall stuff from time to time, but every single board needs a curmudgeon and it is NOT an easy role to play. Jazz has fine tuned his tone over the years to hit a decent stride where he really adds to the board, and will admit if he's gone overboard. We have plenty of rose colored glasses here, it is good to hear an alternate slant.

    The other thing is, Jazz is a fast study on when he's been off. Has been singing Perkins praises in retrospect, and was first to really support Kispert in the AZ game.

    If anyone doubts he's a fan, just say "Sabonis" and then sit back and look out.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    Jazz can say some off the wall stuff from time to time, but every single board needs a curmudgeon and it is NOT an easy role to play. Jazz has fine tuned his tone over the years to hit a decent stride where he really adds to the board, and will admit if he's gone overboard. We have plenty of rose colored glasses here, it is good to hear an alternate slant.

    The other thing is, Jazz is a fast study on when he's been off. Has been singing Perkins praises in retrospect, and was first to really support Kispert in the AZ game.

    If anyone doubts he's a fan, just say "Sabonis" and then sit back and look out.
    Or DD, or Rui, or Tils....many others. But The Bonus is Uber Alles

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by john montana View Post
    I can't think of many basketball related items more fun to see than watching UNC get the crap kicked out of them. So there's that. Other things I loved...Ayayi with 10 rebounds. The kid just has a knack for the ball, long arms and is always moving. I couldn't believe how many times there was a scrum of 6 ft 8 players around the hoop and Ayayi snakes out an arm and peels out of there with a rebound starting a fast break. Having a guard that can rebound like that is a huge luxury. I also loved Woolridge...he knows his limitations (shooting) but is always looking to get two feet into the paint and despite some early complaints around here, is clearly a pass first kid. His finishing is surprising, but it is his ability to get his feet in the paint and make himself a threat (something goodson just didn't do) that is really impressive. wow did he have some great passes last night. I loved seeing Kispert once again attack off the bounce on the closeouts...if he continues to be more than just a 3 point shooter that means good things for GU. Big strong guard, needs to take advantage of that size and knock down some shots in the paint. Really fun to see that game last night.

    As for Timme...seems to me to be a strength issue. He is not used to getting manhandled and that has hurt his offense a bit, but all the tools are there. Give him some time to develop some core and base strength and he is going to be KO light at some point in his career.
    I still can't figure out how Ayayi stole that pass in the second half for his breakaway dunk. Joel had a player (Bacot?) in the way and I think shocked him by being able to reach cleanly around for the swipe.
    'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bayÖ small acts of kindness and love.'
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    The world would not be quite right here without Jazz, our long-tenured resident curmudgeon and grump.

    And here is a tip: he wouldn't have to keep telling us to get off his lawn if we'd just stop camping there. Just sayin'

    He's the equivalent to those two old guys in the balcony on the Muppets Show. Probably a reference that sails over the head of most here but I think an apt one.

    During the 2017 title run several posters were going bonkers on here vexed with worry about how we'd do in the final four and whether or not we could win. Jazz's response was the perfect three word salve for a fan base mad with anxiety: "We already won."

    He was right of course.

    We all belong here and it's good to have some posters unafraid to speak up on both sides of the ledger when assessing our beloved Zags.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by john montana View Post
    I can't think of many basketball related items more fun to see than watching UNC get the crap kicked out of them. So there's that. Other things I loved...Ayayi with 10 rebounds. The kid just has a knack for the ball, long arms and is always moving. I couldn't believe how many times there was a scrum of 6 ft 8 players around the hoop and Ayayi snakes out an arm and peels out of there with a rebound starting a fast break. Having a guard that can rebound like that is a huge luxury. I also loved Woolridge...he knows his limitations (shooting) but is always looking to get two feet into the paint and despite some early complaints around here, is clearly a pass first kid. His finishing is surprising, but it is his ability to get his feet in the paint and make himself a threat (something goodson just didn't do) that is really impressive. wow did he have some great passes last night. I loved seeing Kispert once again attack off the bounce on the closeouts...if he continues to be more than just a 3 point shooter that means good things for GU. Big strong guard, needs to take advantage of that size and knock down some shots in the paint. Really fun to see that game last night.

    As for Timme...seems to me to be a strength issue. He is not used to getting manhandled and that has hurt his offense a bit, but all the tools are there. Give him some time to develop some core and base strength and he is going to be KO light at some point in his career.
    I'm seeing these things too

    on Joel's boards, some credit to the other Zags for keeping their guys off the glass even when they don't win the board. UNC physical down low and commits numbers on O to help win the glass battle, which they did but not dominantly like how the Zags owned other aspects of the game (transition for example), and Joel has these gifts we all keep seeing to clean those spaces up on the misses.

    Petro finishing through some contact as he did a few times last night should help him get more calls, too, more respect game to game from the refs imo

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    The interior D is porous. Personnel issue, not scheming or coaching. Gotta live with it. BC not walking through that door.
    truth in this imo, and Zags doing ok adjsuting to this team's D edition, with changing d's and shuffling personnel and perhaps more need to switch and double the post, etc. but battling and winning for stretches that have so far helped tilt the balance and fueled the Zag transition game which has been doing mainly good things. may see teams drop off their own O glass now to make sure Zags don't get it going on the break to look to slow tempo? we'll see. Not bad on the d boards last night against UNC overall

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    Great points being made. You cannot always judge rebound totals for Zag's big men based on numbers. As previously mentioned, when they are busy boxing out the opponent's bigs, it allows for the guards to come in a get the rebound. Butler consistently uses this strategy and that is why some of their guards are their top rebounders.

    As mentioned on other threads, Petrusev is not ready for the NBA. He needs another year to develop. I can name at least 20 big men this your in college basketball that have
    superior skills to him. He still is not finishing through contact, his defense still needs work and he needs to further develop his 3 pt. shot.

    I don't know what the time frame is for Watson but hopefully he will see playing time in January. Having watched him in high school and this year in college, I still think that his defense has a way to go. He does have a good handle and has some great passing skills. He has three point range and a great stroke, he needs to be getting the green light to start shooting from outside. I notice that most teams have been dropping off him when he is in 3 pt. territory, he needs to start firing.

    EWU has played some good games (they beat a good Belton team) and only lost to Washington by 10. Hope Zags come with intensity to open this game.

    Merry Christmas

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    I am so glad that this after-game thread is no longer limited to observations and now includes "feelings."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr_yaZQmRzA
    You have to love the Gonzaga fan. Not satisfied to be affronted merely by common hosings at the hands of ragtag referees, he plows all avenues of discontent. - John Blanchette

    Gonzaga University...Home of the Zags...The Bulldogs. If you pronounce it "Gone Zaw Ga," they'll know you're not from here and they may charge you more for your coffee. - Garrison Keillor

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    Why do we need to throw Jazz under the bus? This I donít get at all. Jazz has the same general concerns a lot of us do. Free Throw shooting, interior defense etc. He just has his own ways. Thereís only been one poster I havenít been able to really get along with TSWZM. I have come to terms w/ Jazz.

    If you ever look at his positive posts youíll see a lot of praise to a lot of different players, moments and games in Gonzaga history. I donít need to stick up for Jazz, and quite frankly this post probably wonít help anything at all but heís one guy that keeps it real imo. Some things he is nitpicky about but itís whatever.

    I donít come here to see rose colored glasses on everything.

    Jazz, Gosh, Mick, RTZ a few others do this as well. Stop and think about what they say and go watch the film. They arenít always right on everything but they are right on a lot of things actually.

    Anyway, Iím out on this thread, but if we stopped replying to things you canít even admit to being over the top homer about it then why are you here. You just need to find the context on these posts, not just the actual post itself. Itíll help. I promise
    Qualified for 21 Straight Big Dances

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    The Best Point Guard to ever play the game: John Stockton, most assists, most steals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    They will win some medium to big ACC games and it will take them up in NET rankings. They are not a bad team even w/o Anthony.

    It is good to remember that we benefitted from them shooting terribly.
    They fought hard and I have respect for the UNC players after watching the effort they put in. They just donít seem to have the firepower right now. I think someone else already mentioned something similar, but it reminded me of some of the Zagís WCC conference games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitzbuel View Post
    I still can't figure out how Ayayi stole that pass in the second half for his breakaway dunk. Joel had a player (Bacot?) in the way and I think shocked him by being able to reach cleanly around for the swipe.
    Inspector Gadget arms. Go Ayayi, Go! He had some great plays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo Roncalli View Post
    I am so glad that this after-game thread is no longer limited to observations and now includes "feelings."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr_yaZQmRzA
    I think the Muzak version of that song would actually be less mellow. I need a drink after listening to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    I think the Muzak version of that song would actually be less mellow. I need a drink after listening to that.
    Yeah! I listened to it too. I believe Angelo picked this song to pretty much put my thread down. To kind of make fun of it. Some men just can't stand the idea of expressing feelings...MY feelings are about the same for whoever gave this thread a one star. That's equivelent to spitting in someone's face, my face. I can guarantee you one thing, there are a few down right cowards here on this forum. When I was a kid we called them pip sqeecks. A street word for "little baby."

    This is the last time I will start this thread after a game. If someone wants to do it, fine with me. Like others, I'm growing more tired of the little babies on this forum. I don't understand how the mods let some of this stuff get on here. But I've had it.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Yeah! I listened to it too. I believe Angelo picked this song to pretty much put my thread down. To kind of make fun of it. Some men just can't stand the idea of expressing feelings...MY feelings are about the same for whoever gave this thread a one star. That's equivelent to spitting in someone's face, my face. I can guarantee you one thing, there are a few down right cowards here on this forum. When I was a kid we called them pip sqeecks. A street word for "little baby."

    This is the last time I will start this thread after a game. If someone wants to do it, fine with me. Like others, I'm growing more tired of the little babies on this forum. I don't understand how the mods let some of this stuff get on here. But I've had it.
    I didn't take his post as poking fun at you. I hope I didn't contribute to the negativity and am sorry if I did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FuManShoes View Post
    Corey really set the tone with his aggressiveness. He was pulling up to launch 3s in defendersí faces, diving for loose balls, taking it to the hole. He showed what heís capable of. Same for Woolridge, who was just a killer. The defense was lacking and it seemed the bigs werenít interested in banging early to deny position. They need to step up the interior D. The Zags now have the top ranked offense in the land, but a defense thatís lagging well behind at No. 46. That said, this is a night to celebrate. The Tar Heels came to the Kennell and got stomped just as expected. This fan was worried but itís probably time I start believing because these Zags can kill you a bunch of ways. Once they start kicking things down on D - and I think they can - itís game over.

    PS - Few does what Few does but it was a little lame that no Zag reserves got some garbage time to be able to say they faced UNC on their home floor, while Roy played everyone including the team manager. I donít get it.
    Tillie, Ryan, Gilder still have injuries. They should play enough to secure the win, and no more. It is preventative health. Just for the sake of charity, why not let the bench play when we are up so much near the end of the game? I know Few used the AZ comeback as a reason, but that kind of comeback is extremely rare, and starters can be brought into the game if its going to pieces. The advantages for Zarchov, etc. seem to be huge for their families, friends, etc, at such a small risk.
    "This fan was worried but its probably time to start believing" this comment sums me up. I will take several large gulps of the cool aid tonight in celebration.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Yeah! I listened to it too. I believe Angelo picked this song to pretty much put my thread down. To kind of make fun of it. Some men just can't stand the idea of expressing feelings...MY feelings are about the same for whoever gave this thread a one star. That's equivelent to spitting in someone's face, my face. I can guarantee you one thing, there are a few down right cowards here on this forum. When I was a kid we called them pip sqeecks. A street word for "little baby."

    This is the last time I will start this thread after a game. If someone wants to do it, fine with me. Like others, I'm growing more tired of the little babies on this forum. I don't understand how the mods let some of this stuff get on here. But I've had it.
    Yesterday's pip squeaks are today's snowflakes. Don't let 'em get you down, bornie.

    O/T, I was thinking about Apollo 13 the other day. You know, the scene in the movie where the engineers whip out their slide rules while figuring out how to get the astronauts back safely.

    If that were to happen today, they'd ask Alexa, "how do we bring the astronauts back?", to which Alexa would probably reply, "beats the crap out of me."

    I'm just a basketball fan, got as far as JV in HS, and I've probably watched hundreds of games over the years. Fortunately, I followed UTEP basketball and saw one of the greatest coaches ever in Don Haskins. Although their personalities are quite different, Coach Haskins and Coach Few are two of the best when it comes to getting the most from their players. They demonstrated the rare ability to put their players in the best possible position, and not to try and fit square pegs in round holes.

    Another similarity is that for El Paso and Spokane, college hoops is the only game in town. UTEP has fallen on hard times since the Bear's passing, mainly because there was no one to take the torch. Instead of a destination, UTEP became a place for coaches looking for something better. I don't think we have to worry about that at GU, but it's a cautionary tale IMO.

    As to "feelings", sorry folks, that's what you're going to get from me. As a dad and "Opa", I have seen the impact a few fleeting moments have had on my 3 kids and grandson. Shoot, my daughter was brought to tears by the stories Dillon told his mom about how he was treated in Spokane, the time Corey spent with him, putting "Big D" on his shoulders so he could dunk the ball. Or Josh Perkins "stealing his hat", not giving it back until he had some fun with him. Follow that with Corey remembering him over 2 years later in College Station, and the two talking about "stuff" after the game.

    My stories are hardly unique for those of us in the Zag family, and I will continue to tell them. If you don't like 'em, don't read 'em. I will always have the players' backs, that's the least I owe them for everything they've done, and continue to do, for us.

    It goes back more than 40 years for me, remembering the friendships I made with Schiff, KT, Willie Moss. It continues today, where the athletes are part of the community, instead of being segregated in the athletic palaces found at the huge state universities. It's what makes GU special, and I hope we never lose that. It cannot be solely wrapped up into analytics, or x's and o's...it's about the heart of a Zag.

    It's been a long journey that led us to last night's epic event at the MAC. While I'm convinced that the best is yet to come, we can never take it for granted.

    So keep posting Reborn, I have your back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kong-Kool-Aid View Post
    For perspective, this counts as a quadrant 3 win as of now.

    Eastern Washington as of this point would be considered a bigger resume win than North Carolina according to NET.

    Need UNC to go on a run.
    Would not surprise me at all if we play UNC again this season. With both teams ready for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Yeah! I listened to it too. I believe Angelo picked this song to pretty much put my thread down. To kind of make fun of it. Some men just can't stand the idea of expressing feelings...MY feelings are about the same for whoever gave this thread a one star. That's equivelent to spitting in someone's face, my face. I can guarantee you one thing, there are a few down right cowards here on this forum. When I was a kid we called them pip sqeecks. A street word for "little baby."

    This is the last time I will start this thread after a game. If someone wants to do it, fine with me. Like others, I'm growing more tired of the little babies on this forum. I don't understand how the mods let some of this stuff get on here. But I've had it.
    Come on. There is nothing at all about anything that is putting the thread down. And let's pretend there was, I assume you are more than capable of taking it in stride and either considering it or tossing it away.

    It would hurt the board if you stopped posting the thread.

    And if everyone who ever got a one starred thread refused to post again afterward we wouldn't have any threads.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

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    Reborn, shake it off man.

    I'm not in the Zag Family, just the basketball stuff for me, and I am someone who has been called a snowflake and basically one-starred, lol

    So what? Bring it on. lots of that going on in our world today, not just to you, altho I figured this thread got one-starred for the content of some of the posts, not because you started it.

    The Zags just CRUSHED North Carolina!! Can't we all even enjoy that together, big happy family? good grief

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    Reborn, please keep doing what you do. For every put down by one person there are ten of us that appreciate reading what you start. I do not post very often because most of you have more knowledge than I do. Yes I have watched basketball all the time starting with Burgess. And have lived thru the GU years of never beating high ranked teams occurred. I appreciate watching all of the great players that have come thru during the last 20 years, but still have great memories of the Browns, Leishman, Sutter and those of my era. I feel proud of watching our players perform both on the court, in school, and in the community. Thanks GU for producing super human beings

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    Default Reborn:

    There's an inherent risk to registering one's opinions on an internet forum and you've taken that risk well over eleven thousand times since 2007.

    The risk is getting your feelings hurt, ego bruised, and views challenged when others disagree with you. It's not the moderators job to mitigate that risk. If someone finds a four page thread they don't like and they choose to rate it as average, bad, or terrible, that's their right. A rating like those might reflect on the OP but it might not.

    For as long as this board and its predecessor have been around, you've given the forum your opinions, enthusiasms, and critiques; perspectives born from being one of the very few people in the GUB community to lace 'em up and wear a Gonzaga jersey are hard to come by. It's a unique point of view normally infused with a singular optimism. It's part of the wide spectrum of opinions shared here.

    Would be a pity to lose it.

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