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Thread: Gonzaga vs North Carolina post game analysis and feelings

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    Bart...Corey has improved tremendously. It's not surprise when a kid suddenly matures and plays very very well, he's unrecognizable . SO it is with Corey. HUGE improvement. He practices non stop.
    Also, I'd guess this version of Zags will go the distance with the 7 main players we saw tonight ..and an 8th for fatique. I have doubts, Anton will be a productive player unless he get the shoulder fixed. Great kid and superior player but damaged. Pray to the Lord we get no more injuries. We have the goods to go the distance.
    Seemed like the pressure got to Corey early in the season, but he's really rolling right now. So efficient too!

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Would have been 3 point game either way with Greg Jr. Some Zags were great, some ok, some not so hot. And the ends of each half and the foul shooting are nauseating.
    - if the foul shooting makes you sick, you must catch the flu awful easily.

    - I keep beating the same drum, would anyone point to a single game in which the zags lost a game because they shot under 70% (college average). I venture to say you cannot, and if you can find two such games, those happened over the course of several years.

    - I'm not saying free throw shooting is not important, or that a few players on the team could use more practice. I just find it funny that we harp on free throws when it does not cost us a game. whereas we have lost many many games in the past, when one could easily point to turnovers, or poor rebounding, poor defense.........but we never have threads that want to harp on too many fouls, too many turnovers, too few rebounds.

  3. #28
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    Best play of the game:

    -12:30 remaining.
    -Tillie dribbles the ball to the FT line and is fouled but it's not called. Ball gets loose in a strip.
    -Tillie dives headlong to the floor to regain the possesion
    -A few seconds later Tillie gets pretty bad bounce/skip from Ayayi (whom he had just screened for) and with the shot clock nearly expiring, Tillie swishes a 3 pointer from 2 steps behind the line

    One announcer asks "how do you guard that?" and Jay Bilas says "you don't"

    https://youtu.be/_80pBjjQ6DE?t=842


  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by GonzaGAW View Post

    - would anyone point to a single game in which the zags lost a game because they shot under 70% (college average). I venture to say you cannot, and if you can find two such games, those happened over the course of several years.
    1. Our first loss the 2017 year was senior night vs BYU. We lost by 8 after missing 13 free throws. We shot 55% from the line. We had lead by 2 with 2 minutes left, and it would easily have been a double-digit lead with any decent FT shooting from GU during the game.

    2. A mere 5 weeks later, in the biggest game Gonzaga has EVER played, GU lost by 6, missed 9 free throws, and shoot 65% from the stripe.
    GU was up by 2 with 1:50 left, and would have been up by several possessions if they'd shot decent free throws. They would have been in the driver seat and IMO won or at least been able to withstand Nigel's rolled ankle and the bad reffing on Collins.

    3. As an addendum:
    It's actually uncanny how many of GU's recent losses fit the exact description you deny existing.


    Our loss to Tennessee last year by 3 points happened in a game where we shot 63% from the line.

    Our loss to SDSU in '17-18 by 2 points happened in a game where we shot 64% from the line.

    And (BY FAR) closest other game in our NCAA title-game stretch, and one where GU looked doomed and relied on Jordan Matthews miraculous 3pt shot to rewrite the narrative of Few, monkeys-on-backs, and the school, was vs WVU. Everyone recalls needing an insane missed WVU free throw, Perkins block, Matthews 3, and NWG lockdown defense to escape with a win. But 9 times out of 10 those sequences go the other way. But guess what did happen in that game? GU shot 65% on its free throws and missed 11 of them. If they'd made a half-dozen more, the crazy miracle isn't needed to advance.

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    Well, there's that!

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    Our first loss the 2017 year was senior night vs BYU. We lost by 8 after missing 13 free throws. We shot 55% from the line. We had lead by 2 with 2 minutes left, and it would easily have been a double-digit lead with decent FT shooting.

    Then a mere 5 weeks later, in the biggest game Gonzaga has EVER played, GU lost by 6, missed 9 free throws, and shoot 65% from the stripe.
    They were up by 2 with 1:50 left, and it would have been up by several possessions if they'd shot decent free throws. They would have been in the driver seat and IMO won.

    As an addendum, the (BY FAR) closest other game in that stretch, and one where GU relied on Jordan Matthews miraculous 3pt shot to rewrite the narrative of Few and the school, was vs WVU. Everyone recalls needing an insane missed free throw, Perkins block, Matthews 3, and NWG lockdown defence to escape with a win. 9 times out of 10 those sequences go the other way. But guess what did happen in that game? GU shot 65% on its free throws and missed 11 of them.
    - nope, sorry, you make my point.
    - you cannot assume that a team is going to shoot 100%
    - in the championship game the zags were 17 or 26 from the free throw line, or 65.4%, if they had made just one more free throw they would have shot 70% which is average for a college team.
    - zags lost that game because they shot 33.9% from the field!
    - that loss had nothing to do with missing a single free throw or even two free throws.

    - fun fact on the game, our worst free throw shooter, karnowski was 7 of 8, and our best shooter n.w.g. went 4 for 8.

  7. #32
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    - in the above mentioned byu game, we were 16 of 29, if we had shot 70% we would have made 5 more points. we lost by 8.
    - had we made a few more, sure our lead would have been bigger.

    - but again this game proves my point, we focus on free throws as if that is what costs us a game.
    - you know what, we took 18 three point shots in that game, I bet a bunch of them down the wire and when we already had a comfortable lead, and guess what we made only 3!
    - we shot 18% from 3 point land, 18%!
    - i suspect the team was deficit in other areas besides 3 point shooting and free throw shooting that game, but I think it too simplistic to lay the loss at the free throw line because we did not shoot 80% that game.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by GonzaGAW View Post
    - nope, sorry, you make my point.
    - you cannot assume that a team is going to shoot 100%
    - in the championship game the zags were 17 or 26 from the free throw line, or 65.4%, if they had made just one more free throw they would have shot 70% which is average for a college team.
    - zags lost that game because they shot 33.9% from the field!
    - that loss had nothing to do with missing a single free throw or even two free throws.

    - fun fact on the game, our worst free throw shooter, karnowski was 7 of 8, and our best shooter n.w.g. went 4 for 8.
    Why did I suspect that even if someone easily and quickly noted numerous examples specifically describing what you challenged anyone to find:

    "would anyone point to a single game in which the zags lost a game because they shot under 70% (college average). I venture to say you cannot"
    That you still would not let evidence change your mind?



    I'm curious why you are obsessed with this 70% = average number, as though that should be a goal or baseline for an elite team. Zags aren't average. They haven't been average for 20 years. They aren't happy being average in any statistical category. Why concern yourself with being average in FT%? Teams playing in the 2nd and 3rd weekend in march are typically far above average in most metrics.

    All of these single-digit recent losses occurred when we shot under 65% from the line, conditions you describe as rare or never happening. These represent a pretty big portion of all our losses in the last 4 years. But at this point I'm not writing to convince you, just to share the stats I've found to other stat-heads here.

    2016 TA&M 1pt loss (36%!)
    2016 SMC 3pt loss (60%!)
    2016 SMC 5pt loss (50%!)
    UNC 2017 (Title game)
    BYU 2017 (55%!)
    SDSU 2017
    Tenn 2018

  9. #34
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    - yes my friend, and I mean that, my friend, as we are both avid zag fans.
    - we do see this differently.
    - i concede we often shot poorly at the free throw line, and lose many of those games. my point if not made clear is two fold.
    1. okay lets assume we did not shoot poorly in those games you list, but rather shot 'decently' as you suggest. i think decently would be 70%. and as mentioned those few points lost did not lose those games.
    2. second point is we focus on free throw shooting, and do not see the forest for the trees. e.g. in the byu game we shot 18% from 3, and 34% from the field in the championship game.

    - hum, i wonder how many points we lost if we had shot just decent (not elite as you expect). decent (33%) would have been 9 extra points, which is more than the 5 lost points at the foul line. and in the championship game, we lost 1 maybe 2 points at the line, but if we had shot even 45% from the field instead of 34%, we would have scored an additional 8 points.

    - good night, to a good night in which the zags win a great game.

  10. #35
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    It was awesome being there. The team has a lot of potentional. I see a cpl bumps down the road but zags will have a shot.
    Love the zags for life

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by GonzaGAW View Post
    - ...
    2. second point is we focus on free throw shooting, and do not see the forest for the trees. e.g. in the byu game we shot 18% from 3, and 34% from the field in the championship game.
    I won’t get into the great “free throws will kill us and already have” debate, but will say that unlike contested FGs and three pointers, free throws are entirely under the control of the player shooting them. Rather than reflect a crappy shooting night from the field, competent free throw shooting should offset it and give you a chance to stay in a game or steal it. The Zags really should try to improve this. It’s in their control.

    Anyway, great win and this team is really good.
    “We’re not here as a %&#* courtesy!" - Coach Few

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    Quote Originally Posted by krozman View Post
    free throws :-(
    Without Filip's 8 of 10 FT's it would have been godawful.
    "Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand."
    —Kurt Vonnegut

  13. #38
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    I loved the student section chanting "WE WANT WOFFORD" near the end of tonight's game. Keepin' it classy!!
    "Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand."
    —Kurt Vonnegut

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagricultural View Post
    However, our 3-point defense is really weak. Thankfully UNC couldn't hit anything, because we certainly gave them plenty of wide open looks.

    Better shore it up in a hurry 'cause EWU let's it fly.
    This post is for March Madness seeding purposes only.

  15. #40
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    With every win, the Spokane region seems like a slam dunk.
    GU fans have wanted this for a few decades. 2020 is going to be a great year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GonzaGAW View Post
    - yes my friend, and I mean that, my friend, as we are both avid zag fans.
    - we do see this differently.
    - i concede we often shot poorly at the free throw line, and lose many of those games. my point if not made clear is two fold.
    1. okay lets assume we did not shoot poorly in those games you list, but rather shot 'decently' as you suggest. i think decently would be 70%. and as mentioned those few points lost did not lose those games.
    2. second point is we focus on free throw shooting, and do not see the forest for the trees. e.g. in the byu game we shot 18% from 3, and 34% from the field in the championship game.

    - hum, i wonder how many points we lost if we had shot just decent (not elite as you expect). decent (33%) would have been 9 extra points, which is more than the 5 lost points at the foul line. and in the championship game, we lost 1 maybe 2 points at the line, but if we had shot even 45% from the field instead of 34%, we would have scored an additional 8 points.

    - good night, to a good night in which the zags win a great game.
    a loss is rarely because of a single element...but free throw shooting has certainly played a major factor in costing teams games before and could absolutely be something that costs the zags a game down the line...i don't understand how someone could argue differently.

  17. #42
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    Great to see Zags play so well. After reading this entire thread all I have to add is: I love Ryan Woolridge! 5-6 shooting, 9 assists, 2 turnovers in 36 minutes and still toughing it out playing w a bum knee. Kispert the star of this game for sure but Woolridge a close 2nd. Also loving Ayayi’s game and cool confidence but he takes some dumb shots at times. Nice seeing he can dunk!

    I wish Zags could sit Tillie and Woolridge vs EWU so they could have 11 straight days of rehab and getting healthy before last ooc game vs Detroit Mercy on 12/30....but from what I gather EWU is dangerous enough that this thin Zags bench can’t be counted on to win without Tillie and Woolridge.
    It is their time....their team...I just get to watch. - Bartruff1

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    I'm curious why you are obsessed with this 70% = average number, as though that should be a goal or baseline for an elite team. Zags aren't average. They haven't been average for 20 years. They aren't happy being average in any statistical category. Why concern yourself with being average in FT%? Teams playing in the 2nd and 3rd weekend in march are typically far above average in most metrics.
    This is more or less what I was thinking. The argument hinges on the premise that just average free throw shooting is what this team aspires to. I doubt they do-- especially in games when they are shooting poorly from the field.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagaZags View Post
    With every win, the Spokane region seems like a slam dunk.
    GU fans have wanted this for a few decades. 2020 is going to be a great year.
    It uncanny how they have been unable to achieve this feat yet.

  20. #45
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    Wonder what link the EWU game will NOT BE available on.

  21. #46
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    11 pts, 10 rebs, 6 assists, 3 stls.

    Joel Ayayi.

    Always blends in on first watch, then after replay, he stands out as the guy.

    Yes, Petrusev still calls himself this teams "go to player", but we wouldn't have gone 3-0 vs UW, Zona, UNC w/out Ayayi.

    He is so good. His steals, passes, & rebounds are paramount to this team.

    I keep asking myself, much like Zak, "we dont look as athletic, fluid, dominant as past Zags teams, so how do we keep winning these games?"

    Luck? Leadership? Timely shots? Coaching?

    Woolridge has certainly helped, esp defensively on ball, yet our entire team runs around what Joel is doing on both sides of the court, while the rest of the guys are in good position, smart bball, grinding games out, trusting, & moving the ball.

    We have just enough athleticism at the right spots, altho we could use more in post, just enough experience, & just enough legit talent.

    Petrusev expecting to be a Top 20 pick and has every intention of playing in NBA next season, yet it will likely be Ayayi as our next Top 20 pick.

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    I’ll bet the 7 Zags who played last night sleep well into the morning today. It was almost like watching tennis. That was a great game to be at. Proud of the crowd. Fans were hopping! One can usually hear the band well and especially when band members do fun solos. We could barely hear the trumpet solo and we were in Section 104.
    Would like to have seen Martynas & Pavel in the last couple mins. Although, sure glad the Zags kept a comfy lead going at the end.
    http://www.fowlplaces.com/zags/GoZagsTinySignGuyGlassesColor.png

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    * Was impressed with the passing in general last night. This is a very unselfish team that shares the ball readily. It makes them very tough to defend.

    * Yes, FT's are a problem. But they are one unlikely to change in season. FWIW, I appreciated the aggressiveness offensively that led to some of the trips to the line.

    * Was surprised at how out of sync Timme looked last night. He's a really talented player, but it really shows how crucial veteran experience is in these big games.

    * Ayayi is just awesome. His growth is really something else. Incredible to see how many little things he does. I see some Rajon Rondo in his game.

    * Kispert was great too. He has really impressed me by working through his early season slump, staying confident, and coming out in a game like this and playing at such a high level.

    * Jay Bilas has really grown on me / the Zags have really grown on him. I appreciated that he was adamant that this game was not a GU win simply because of Anthony was out.

    * Props to Coach Williams for bringing his team to Spokane.

    * Props to Coach Few for what has been, so far, up there with the most impressive coaching performances of his illustrious career. This team lost 4 players to the NBA. That they are #2 and have the resume they already have put together is a real testament to great coaching and team-building.

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  25. #50
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    Anyone else worried about our defense? Our D efficiency has dropped several games in a row. We’re at #46 on Kenpom. Fortunately, our offensive efficiency is going up. But deep in the tournament, both offense and defense have to be at highest levels.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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